What is going on with MOS-Team?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Kaczus
    Posts: 199 from 2003/9/6
    From: Poland / Lodz
    I've just read, Krashan wants leave MOSTeam!!! I have a big question, "Has MOSTeam any vision for the future of MORPHOS, and if he has, maybe someone from core-team tell us about it?"

    [ Edited by Kaczus on 2005/3/22 18:20 ]
  • »22.03.05 - 09:19
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 10 from 2005/1/15
    From: Koszalin, Poland
    they have nothing to tell...
  • »22.03.05 - 11:07
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 979 from 2003/6/28
    That's sad, Krashan is a very good coder and is doing mos media, that in my opinion could be a VERY interesting thing in some time...

    Krashan, please continue doing stuff for MorphOS...
  • »22.03.05 - 11:10
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1192 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote:

    I've just read, Krashan wants leave MOSTeam!!!

    And where have you read it, if I may ask?

    And why is this english thread in "polish" section?
  • »22.03.05 - 12:16
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Kaczus
    Posts: 199 from 2003/9/6
    From: Poland / Lodz
    Quote:


    Jupp3 wrote:
    I've just read, Krashan wants leave MOSTeam!!!
    And where have you read it, if I may ask?



    http://www.ppa.ltd.pl/forum_ppa/read.php?f=4&i=3080&t=3065
    (it is in Polish)
    Quote:


    And why is this english thread in "polish" section?

    by mistake....

    [ Edited by Kaczus on 2005/3/22 21:24 ]
  • »22.03.05 - 12:21
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    It is true. It is hard to work in a "team" with no real leadership. Every project needs someone who has balls enough to drive it up. Someone who can make things working, who can turn a vision into detailed plans and schedules. Someone who can talk to the community and does not affraid to tell something is delayed or wrong. Someone who knows how to manage the team.

    Now when Genesi pulled the plug out, it is just a bunch of talented individuals drifting in an unknown direction. I can of course drift with them infinitely, but what is the point? I can be an ordinary MOS user as well, contributing my work to the community. Having access to not released "1.5" components is useless. If I want to release something for 1.4 I cannot use it anyway and writing something for 1.5 is like writing to the drawer in current condition.

    Of course I'm thankfull to Genesi for oferring me two free machines. I think I should contribute my work to MorphOS and Pegasos community in return. And I will do, my projects are not stopped.

    [ Edited by Krashan on 2005/3/22 21:00 ]
  • »22.03.05 - 12:55
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 214 from 2003/7/28
    From: Canada
    Hi Krashan, I'm sorry to hear this. But more importantly sorry to hear that you feel there is no leadership on the "MOS Team".

    As an end user I certainly would agree with you. The official communications and direction from the "MOS Team" have been few and far between. Even myself, asking about projects, or even things I wanted to fund and start myself, I often get no answer or some non-committal response.

    We have had some communications from this "team" but I can't say for certain that anyone knows if 1.5 will come out, what features it will or will not contain, what the time-table is, if it will cost anything, etc... Sounds to me like a lack of Project management. The sad thing is that it is my personal belief that some of the "MOS Team" just don't care anymore about MOS or it's current user base. I'm not saying everyone doesn't care, because I still think there are people who do.

    But my impression of the "general mood" of the "MOS Team" is that they are going through a tough time. With Zapek leaving, BBRV not funding anymore, and internal disagreements...no wonder they are in this situation. I hope they can pull through.

    It's a shame really, since MOS is an excellent product that has potential, and the "MOS Team" is still very talented.

    Ambient going open source is both good and bad. Zapek is lost as a developer, but we have gained a great team of talented programmers to carry it on. So let's see what happens.

    I will try to be positive in the darkness! :)
  • »22.03.05 - 14:42
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    brotheris
    Posts: 142 from 2003/2/24
    From: Vilnius, Lithu...
    Looks like situation is not getting better after recent events. Situation is paradoxal - platform has users, developers, but MOS center is stagnating in limbo for more than a year. I sure hope someone will draw a line somewhere and team will be able to complete, test and release a package called MorphOS 1.777. This will result in more developments for MorphOS (more functions, more APIs), developments that are on hold right now could be released. This will cause a positive boost and all good things that come with it. I hope it's not too late to turn MorphOS into real desktop OS, not only development platform for MobileGT and similar.
  • »22.03.05 - 14:57
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2582 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    HammerD wrote:
    Hi Krashan, I'm sorry to hear this. But more importantly sorry to hear that you feel there is no leadership on the "MOS Team".


    Well hasn't it been obvious for quite some time that MorphOS has been kind of "idling"? Perhaps not individual developers, but the "development management", if you can call it that. And I also think we all know why, and there is no need to go there again. Besides, better idle than dead IMHO! ;-)

    Around last Christmas (in the aftermath of the Gerber blast) BBRV said they hoped that a new version of MorphOS would be out before "this time next year" (towards Christmas 2005). In this post (link) here on Morphzone they are speaking about sitting down with Ralph sometime during Q2.

    We'll see what comes out in the end, if anything. One thing is for sure though, the progress of the Pegasos will probably help, and there is no idling on *that* front! :-)
  • »22.03.05 - 15:05
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    mdma
    Posts: 85 from 2003/5/4
    I wish you all the best in your future endeavours. Hopefully we will still continue to use your excellent software.
  • »22.03.05 - 16:00
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  • opi
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    opi
    Posts: 100 from 2003/3/9
    From: Lodz, Poland
    Too bad. :-/
  • »22.03.05 - 23:42
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1887 from 2003/10/19
    From: Oxnard, Ca.
    Not much keeping the team together. Its a shame to see people go. I'd
    like to see some more forward direction.
  • »23.03.05 - 00:13
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 98 from 2004/6/4
    From: Ivanovo, Russia
    As I told many times before, the team is a TEAM, but not a group of individual developers. And now MOS team is not a team anymore.
  • »23.03.05 - 08:40
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Jonny_Rico
    Posts: 45 from 2004/3/18
    From: Germany
    ... and as I said it before... its the problem of one individual of this ex-team who did all this, and its not Zapec... seems this guy couldn't work with a team neither he's a good advocate for the community as he never said anything
  • »23.03.05 - 08:57
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    brotheris
    Posts: 142 from 2003/2/24
    From: Vilnius, Lithu...
    Quote:

    as he never said anything


    IMHO he said enough. He didn't see a leadership and decided to use MOS 1.4 as foundation for his work and release it as he completes it.

    It looks like Ralph is occupied with his MobileGT low level work and there is none to manage the rest of the team. Someone needs to step up, show the path and draw a line for next release. Offcourse there is more to that, but it looks like that from my perspective.

    [ Edited by brotheris on 2005/3/23 19:21 ]
  • »23.03.05 - 09:20
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    brotheris
    Posts: 142 from 2003/2/24
    From: Vilnius, Lithu...
    Was thinking more about it... situation is even more difficult. There is one question: how to distribute MOS1.777 ?

    1. Give it for free. But not all will want to give away more than year of work for free (ok, it's not fulltime, but still), some might not even like the idea that Genesi might profit from this (sell more Pegs).

    2. Sell the update. This opens even deeper problem hole. Who would sell it ? How money would be split ? Do developers have somekind of MorphOS contract ? Building gmbh foundation might be very hard, especially when developers are spread all over the globe. Dealers might help in distribution, but to get to this point a lot of work needs to be done. You need a sales person, somekind Genesi replacement.

    Here comes another problem, Genesi might start distributing new MorphOS, but will developers trust them ?

    A lot of questions and there is even more interesting one - has any work been started to get out of this limbo ?

    Any thoughts?

    [ Edited by brotheris on 2005/3/23 21:40 ]
  • »23.03.05 - 11:38
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  • Leo
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Leo
    Posts: 415 from 2003/8/18
    Quote:


    Someone needs to step up, show the path and draw a line for next release. Offcourse there is more to that, but it looks like that from my perspective.


    I agree. But for that they would need to agree on something...

    As every developper seems to follow his own path, have his own conviections,... will it be possible ?

    And... Do they at least all want that ?

    Leo.

    [ Edited by Leo on 2005/3/23 19:44 ]
  • »23.03.05 - 12:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 214 from 2003/7/28
    From: Canada
    Guys, the July 25, 2004 communication the MOS team made still stands. Sure, it sucks waiting, but alot of stuff has happened since then. The bottom line is that a MOS update is being worked on. Discussing the situation and speculating on internal team dynamics really does no one any good.

    Patience is a virtue :)
  • »23.03.05 - 13:26
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1897 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    Leo wrote:

    As every developper seems to follow his own path

    Leo.




    There is still a team active and alive. Real pogress is made again. It is not as direction less as some say.
    Well, of course it's not only pure sunshine, but the situation does not become better if ppl complain and whine about that again and again. This complaining and whining is not really fruitful.
  • »23.03.05 - 13:30
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    brotheris
    Posts: 142 from 2003/2/24
    From: Vilnius, Lithu...
    Quote:

    will it be possible ?


    Yes it is

    Quote:

    And... Do they at least all want that ?


    Ofcourse they want to, those who don't want to, stopped working and left. Only Zapek officialy left the team and quit.

    Zylesea, I don't think that someone is really whining here and speculations might bring out some info about progress or atleast will help in some way in current situation. Ofcourse users perspective is different, because they want product out no matter what :-D Developers have more concern on their hands. It's good to hear that developers are still working on their part. I'm sure many users will throw a party after next release :bloons:

    [ Edited by brotheris on 2005/3/24 1:11 ]
  • »23.03.05 - 15:08
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  • Leo
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Leo
    Posts: 415 from 2003/8/18
    @zylesea: sure progress is made... But I don't see any really team anymore. See previous posts.

    And no one is whining but just looking for a way to make the situation better...

    Leo.

    [ Edited by Leo on 2005/3/23 23:16 ]
  • »23.03.05 - 16:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 272 from 2003/3/4
    So now we have a fake team ?

    How did the team really changed (except David leaving) ? I can see mostly the same core dev on the IRC channel but maybe they are just bots who always are very helpfull and nice to me.

    I am affraid that some people do not still understand that by whining they make the situation worse.
  • »23.03.05 - 17:04
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  • Leo
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Leo
    Posts: 415 from 2003/8/18
    @cdfr:
    Ok, let's them hide everything, and make appear the situation as better than ever if that's what you all want...

    Just one thing:

    By hidding the fact that a lot of members have totaly left the team (for months for several of them) or are just working from time to time on fixing bugs with no real direction they are hurting the community more than I'm making the situation worse by "whinning".

    Why the hell do you think developers like Krashcan are considering leaving the """ team """ ?!

    But *I*'m the bad boy. MOS Team is nice. Fine...

    Leo.
  • »23.03.05 - 17:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 272 from 2003/3/4
    They have nothing to hide, developers who left are free to tell so.
    They don't have to announce something whenever a developer is joining or leaving.
    If as you say they had a lot of people leaving making an announce for each of them would certainly not have done any good.

    They don't make it look better than what it is as obviously they do not make broken promises.

    Krashcan said the team was missing leadership and prefers to develop as an independent dev. It looks that the other devs have less problem with missing such leadership.

    You are the one whining on every forum and mailing list for sure ...
  • »23.03.05 - 18:12
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  • Leo
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Leo
    Posts: 415 from 2003/8/18
    Quote:


    If as you say they had a lot of people leaving making an announce for each of them would certainly not have done any good.


    Sure it won't do anything good.

    But I think you'll agree it's better to be honest at the community and announce they are having difficulties (no need to mention people leaving) than after 6 months of silence
    seing www.morphos.net zapek's announcement being mirrored on osnews,...

    Leo.
  • »23.03.05 - 18:44
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