Powerbook G4 HW Problem (probably GPU related)
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Hi,

    My beloved MorphOS machine woke up like this:

    https://paste.pics/QAM9B

    QAM9B

    Link

    Anyone else experienced that? Is that a dead end or there's something that can be done?

    [ Edited by muffie 29.01.2024 - 08:54 ]
  • »29.01.24 - 11:51
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 3 from 2022/4/23
    That looks like a hardware issue with the graphics controller. If you're lucky, however, it's just the cable or connector connecting the display (though the mix of horizontal and vertical lines are unlikely if that's the cause). If you get the same on the external monitor, try booting from a MacOS CD just to confirm it's not a graphics driver issue (again, unlikely with that pattern).
  • »29.01.24 - 12:11
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:

    Papiosaur wrote:
    You can try video output on external monitor.




    Thank you. Will try that. Need to find an DVI cable.
    The fact that pressing the power button while on that screen immediatly resets the computer, does not give me too much hope tough.. :(
  • »29.01.24 - 12:35
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:

    milyrouge wrote:
    That looks like a hardware issue with the graphics controller. If you're lucky, however, it's just the cable or connector connecting the display (though the mix of horizontal and vertical lines are unlikely if that's the cause). If you get the same on the external monitor, try booting from a MacOS CD just to confirm it's not a graphics driver issue (again, unlikely with that pattern).


    so... pattern leads to GPU failure? Radeon 9700 memory?
    Maybe a reflow? Any ideas?

    *PS* How's MorphOS roadmap for newer hardware? Any chances for x86? Some Thinkpad Amigas could look amazing.
  • »29.01.24 - 13:02
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2211 from 2003/2/24
    The reset on PWR button suggest that MorphOS is still running and not crashed.
  • »29.01.24 - 13:03
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Nothing comes out of DVI...

    *PS* reset on PWR on is instant... Seems like an issue. The front led keeps on. Don't remember f it was like that before.


    [ Edited by muffie 29.01.2024 - 12:02 ]
  • »29.01.24 - 15:00
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Can you enter Open Firmware?
  • »29.01.24 - 15:22
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2211 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    muffie wrote:
    Nothing comes out of DVI...

    *PS* reset on PWR on is instant... Seems like an issue. The front led keeps on. Don't remember f it was like that before.



    MorphOS uses the PWR button as an reset button so yeah thats normal, you need to long press to issue a powerdown.

    But it does seem your GPU is the issue….
  • »29.01.24 - 15:24
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Can you enter Open Firmware?


    Nope. CMD+OPTION+O+F = same behavior
  • »29.01.24 - 15:27
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Well, everything suggests it's the GPU, sadly.
    You can try reanimating it with hot air, but that's a lottery. Might work for a while or break it completely.
  • »29.01.24 - 21:17
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Well, everything suggests it's the GPU, sadly.
    You can try reanimating it with hot air, but that's a lottery. Might work for a while or break it completely.


    Tried blowing hot air from a hairdryer through the back vents.
    The result? A melted function key.

    Game Over for me. :(
    I'll try to get an old mac mini g4
  • »30.01.24 - 02:05
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1457 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ muffie - Which model of PowerBook G4 is it? A1106, A1138, A1046 or something else, i.e. A1095, etc.? :-?

    As it seems to look like a 15.2" model.

    If you're not bothered about which model you have/use, as long as it has 64MB then it still should be fairly easy to get hold of a replacement PowerBook, and transfer the licence to that replacement system. In which case you'd probably only need to swap over the HDD, you'd then still be able to utilise the power supply for your current PowerBook, as well as any battery you might have been using up until now, etc..

    Getting hold of a 64MB MacMini will probably be more difficult, though I don't know what they go for currently, but probably a PowerBook would be a cheaper, more available option. ;-)

    I don't know which country you're in, but if getting it apart would be too much for you, if you live in the UK then I'd help you get whatever's salvageable from inside your system, saved for your replacement system. 8-D
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
  • »30.01.24 - 04:50
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2211 from 2003/2/24
    My advice:

    Always buy top of the line as saving a € on the used market isn’t worth the compromise

    So PB 5.8/5.9 aka 1138/1139 or the silent upgrade 64 MB VMEM 1.5GHz Mini.
    Transferring license should be possible for all these.

    Or you hunt down a motherboard for your specific PowerBook.
  • »30.01.24 - 09:24
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    @ muffie - Which model of PowerBook G4 is it? A1106, A1138, A1046 or something else, i.e. A1095, etc.? :-?

    As it seems to look like a 15.2" model.

    If you're not bothered about which model you have/use, as long as it has 64MB then it still should be fairly easy to get hold of a replacement PowerBook, and transfer the licence to that replacement system. In which case you'd probably only need to swap over the HDD, you'd then still be able to utilise the power supply for your current PowerBook, as well as any battery you might have been using up until now, etc..

    Getting hold of a 64MB MacMini will probably be more difficult, though I don't know what they go for currently, but probably a PowerBook would be a cheaper, more available option. ;-)

    I don't know which country you're in, but if getting it apart would be too much for you, if you live in the UK then I'd help you get whatever's salvageable from inside your system, saved for your replacement system. 8-D





    A1106...
    I'm in Brazil, South America, but I travel to the US couple times per year, so, I can get one from eBay delivered to my hotel.

    I still don't know what to do. Got really sad after I just melted couple function keys with a hairdryer. I have a hot air pistol somewhere, it's the cheapest one available, but maybe I'll try to reflow the GPU as a last resource next weekend. Last time I tried that with an old Thinkpad I ended frying the MB (probably applied too much heat).

    Thank you for the offer. For sure, if everything else fails, I'll try to salvage all parts. Maybe even the LCD I could use with one of those external controller boards...
  • »30.01.24 - 10:58
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    My advice:

    Always buy top of the line as saving a € on the used market isn’t worth the compromise

    So PB 5.8/5.9 aka 1138/1139 or the silent upgrade 64 MB VMEM 1.5GHz Mini.
    Transferring license should be possible for all these.

    Or you hunt down a motherboard for your specific PowerBook.


    Thank you.
    *PS* Do we have an idea of which models might be less prone to those GPU failures?
  • »30.01.24 - 10:59
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2943 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Did you try the DVI output with the lid closed? Power on, close lid immediately, wait. Did you try moving the lid? I've had similar issues when the ribbon LVDS cable going to the LCD panel started breaking. Maybe it's just loose?
  • »30.01.24 - 15:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1457 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ jacadcaps - I had a PowerBook (A1138) GPU fail, having put it away all working OK, and the next time I got a screen very similar to what muffie has shown in the linked photo. It wasn't the screen cable in my situation, so I ended up getting another machine, same model, and swapping over the registration to the replacement PowerBook.

    These systems are getting more flaky it seems, so I keep a few spares close by, for just such an eventuality.

    The replaceable GFX cards in the PowerMacs make them worthwhile for that reason, but they certainly can use a lot of electricity to power them. Though I like my A1145 iMac as it has most of the hardware built-in, a G5, and a monitor you can now basically just switch off when you're not actively using it for a while, but don't want to switch it off entirely.

    @ muffie - all you need to open a PowerBook is one of the small screwdriver sets with small torx, hex and philips head screwdrivers. They usually come in a small oblong plastic case with a pair of tweezers and the head of the screwdriver handle is usually magnetic, and I found that the hexagonal bit holder is just the correct size to remove the large pillar nut on the DC-In board of most PowerBooks, as well as the speaker/microphone securing nut, adjacent to the DC-In board.

    Though you might need to file down or grind the top edge to get it to fit inside the small aperture of the speaker nut section. The bits are usually hexagonal, and those sets are usually very cheap, but just what you need to open a PowerBook with little effort.

    Watch some videos, such as the ones on the PowerbookMedic website, or some other ones on YouTube to find how to disassemble your model without breaking anything, and without forgetting to remove ALL the screws, as some are tucked away in unexpected places, such as the battery and RAM compartments. ;-)
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
  • »30.01.24 - 16:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12019 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The replaceable GFX cards in the PowerMacs make them worthwhile for
    > that reason, but they certainly can use a lot of electricity to power them.

    ...unless you go for a G4 one :-)
  • »31.01.24 - 08:10
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:


    Watch some videos, such as the ones on the PowerbookMedic website, or some other ones on YouTube to find how to disassemble your model without breaking anything, and without forgetting to remove ALL the screws, as some are tucked away in unexpected places, such as the battery and RAM compartments. ;-)


    Will try to reflow the GPU this weekend using a cheap hot air gun.
    No temperature indicator, but I have a laser thermometer.
    Some youtube videos indicate one minute circling around the chip.

    Wish me luck! :)
  • »03.02.24 - 12:32
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    It works!
    Typing this message from it, inside MorphOS.
    Only caveat is that the right USB port is no longer working. Probably I forgot to connect something.
    Will post a picture soon!

    I used the cheap hot air gun, measuring the temperature of the chip, trying not to go over 250f.
    Circling around the borders of the ATI chip for 1m and 15s.
    Reassembled and... It's working! :)

    Let's see for how long.
  • »03.02.24 - 21:28
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    https://paste.pics/QBPVV

    [img]https://i2.paste.pics/QBPVV.png?rand=mAUN2XegSY[/img]

    [ Edited by muffie 03.02.2024 - 18:35 ]
  • »03.02.24 - 21:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    muffie wrote:

    https://paste.pics/QBPVV

    [img]https://i2.paste.pics/QBPVV.png?rand=mAUN2XegSY[/img]


    Good to see. You could swap the missing function keys from some el cheapo early MacBook Pro and you're good to go... as long as the GPU doesn't fail on you again.
  • »04.02.24 - 07:50
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    muffie
    Posts: 38 from 2012/2/24
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    muffie wrote:

    https://paste.pics/QBPVV

    [img]https://i2.paste.pics/QBPVV.png?rand=mAUN2XegSY[/img]


    Good to see. You could swap the missing function keys from some el cheapo early MacBook Pro and you're good to go... as long as the GPU doesn't fail on you again.



    The old macbook pro (2009) is already the Unibody version. Keyboard is completely different. I'll try to warm the keys again and get them "kind-of" back to a shape enough to be kept in place.

    Any ideas about the right USB port?
  • »04.02.24 - 12:52
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2211 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    muffie wrote:

    Any ideas about the right USB port?


    3 options:

    1) the module is disconnected -> duh
    2) the module is broken -> get a new one from ebay
    3) the motherboard is broken -> try to live with it

    You could check if there is power on the port of if USB-prefs shows any issue or detects something being plugged in to narrow it down.
  • »04.02.24 - 13:01
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