Mac Mini G4 1.25Ghz VS Power Mac G5 2.7Ghz
  • Just looking around
    Capricornus
    Posts: 14 from 2023/11/27
    Hello,

    Is there a good reason for getting a top spec Power Mac G5 to run MorphOS or is a standard Mac Mini G4 enough?

    Regards
  • »27.11.23 - 14:42
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 3007 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    A G5 will easily play 720p content and some 1080p content. A mini will max out at lower bitrate 720p.
  • »27.11.23 - 14:54
    Profile Visit Website
  • Just looking around
    Capricornus
    Posts: 14 from 2023/11/27
    Thank you. I don't plan on streaming or watching high resolution video on it, it would not be my daily driver either, so more to use some retro software, maybe some light image editing and gaming (no emulation, just games with dedicated MorphOs versions).
  • »27.11.23 - 15:20
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 665 from 2004/2/10
    The 2.7 is really the fastest piece of hardware you can use for MorphOS.

    So video playback (as Jaca mentioned) will be much faster on the 2.7. I have even had some luck with some smaller 4k.

    For game playback for Doom or other large games, it again will be much faster. I only occasionally play quake 2/3 on my 2.7 and it is much faster than my 7 year old PC. Not sure of the bench strength the MM has for gaming and what games it would drive.

    Lastly for using Wayfarer on tougher sites, the 2.7 will show it's CPU grunt and it will provide the best experience possible (be sure to read up on tweaks for that).

    The ONLY downside to the 2.7 is taming the cooling and heat. I swapped mine out with coolers from a 2.3 to get rid of the liquid cooling. The liquid cooling in this is the worst and will leak if you don't watch it. They also run the fans the most (given the fastest cpu, it makes sense :) ).

    For the best MorphOS experience the 2.7 really can't be beat! Get a X1950 Pro for it as well, they are PC cards so you will still need a Mac Bios card for certain things...

    If your just going to play music and want a cool form factor, than the MM will be fine for that.



    Quote:

    Capricornus wrote:
    Hello,

    Is there a good reason for getting a top spec Power Mac G5 to run MorphOS or is a standard Mac Mini G4 enough?

    Regards




    [ Edited by matt3 27.11.2023 - 09:26 ]
  • »27.11.23 - 15:20
    Profile
  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2035 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    I think display options are the biggest restriction with low-end Mac minis, at least for my use. These low-end Mac minis have only 32MB of graphics memory and that's not quite enough if you want FullHD resolutions and/or enhanced display modes. But if you're OK with something like 1280x1024, then they may be OK, but with caution...

    I'm still using the only Mac mini model with 64MB graphics memory (the silently upgraded 1.5GHz one) as my daily driver, and it's fine on a FullHD display with DVI connection. I've had couple 1.42GHz minis, but they both had issues with DVI/FullHD.. first, 32MB isn't quite comfortable for that and secondly, they had some blackouts etc. which were annoying to deal with. You could get them better by tuning frequencies by hand or using (blurry) VGA, but still it felt that there is some kind of hardware issue. Two 1.5GHz models I've had have been just fine on everything I've thrown them, I think there's some kind of improvement on their display side...

    Otherwise Mac minis could be usable for all kinds of things, but I myself would stay away from anything less than 64MB graphics mem...
  • »27.11.23 - 17:50
    Profile Visit Website
  • Just looking around
    Capricornus
    Posts: 14 from 2023/11/27
    Hmm.. I am currently trying out MorphOs on the basic Mac Mini G4 (1.25Ghz), I like the small form factor and the quietness of the machine, but I do suspect that eventually I will struggle with it. I guess upgrading to the 1.5Ghz one would be the minimum.

    My biggest issue with Power Macs is noise, the liquid cooling ones are also a big no, and they don't really look as nice as the Minis.
  • »27.11.23 - 18:08
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2252 from 2003/2/24
    When in question, do neither.

    Get an iSight iMac.

    G5 power
    Less clutter than a Mini
    Reasonable power consumption
    Easy option to add a 2nd screen
  • »27.11.23 - 18:13
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 665 from 2004/2/10
    The best quiet PowerMac are the PCIe variants.

    The only one that has liquid cooling is the 2.5 quad.

    I took a 2.0 GHz single processor PCIe system and put a 2.5 from a QUAD in it. Although it bit slower than the mighty 2.7, the PCIe systems have a faster bus and since your only using one processor, it runs cool and quiet.

    2.7 is only PCIX and never made it to their newer PCIe motherboards.

    Quote:

    Capricornus wrote:
    Hmm.. I am currently trying out MorphOs on the basic Mac Mini G4 (1.25Ghz), I like the small form factor and the quietness of the machine, but I do suspect that eventually I will struggle with it. I guess upgrading to the 1.5Ghz one would be the minimum.

    My biggest issue with Power Macs is noise, the liquid cooling ones are also a big no, and they don't really look as nice as the Minis.
  • »28.11.23 - 03:01
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    My suggestions is one of this:

    Mac Mini G4 1.5 HGz / 64 MB VRAM ( i.e. Silent upgrade )
    + small, nice, low consumption, easily overclockable to 1.8 GHz
    - old graphics card gen.R200, only 64 MB VRAM, only 100 MbE, ATA100 HDD, not expandable

    Powerbook DLSD/HR - Al G4, 1.67 MHz / 128 MB VRAM
    + portable, decent 128 VRAM, 1GbE
    note: graphics gen.R300 is better than Mini has
    - ATA100 HDD, native resolution 1680x1050 or 1440x960, not expandable

    iMac iSight G5 2.1 GHz / 128 MB VRAM
    + all-in-one, lowest consumption from G5, SATA 150 HDD
    note: graphics gen.R300, better than Mini and Powerbook
    - not expandable, native resolution 1680x1050, not as fast as should be according to CPU frequency ( faster than Powerbook 1.67, but slower than AmigaOne X1000 1.8 - benchmarks from 2020 )

    Powermac G5 2.7 GHz Dual Processor
    + MorphOS fastest
    Note: should be used for linux, I have no experience
    - terrible power consumption, old type water cooling, PCI-X + AGP bus, i.e. older graphics cards, I not have one

    Powermac G5 2.3 GHz Dual Core
    + PCIe bus i.e. more modern graphics cards, expandable, one of MorphOS fastest
    Note: should be used for linux, a little bit slow
    - I not have one

    Powermac G5 2.5 GHz Quad Core
    + PCIe bus, expandable, one of MorphOS fastest
    Note: should be used for linux, decent speed
    - terrible power consumption


    Most often I am using my Pegasos 2 ( 1.33 GHz, Radeon 9800 Pro, SATA ). And sometimes when I need most power, I switched on G5 Quad.

    And back to initial question: Mini 1.25 GHz I cannot recommend becouse of 32 MB VRAM. Powermac G5 2.7 GHz has most problematic cooling from all Powermacs.
    If I want today buy "new" MorphOS machine, I will select one of this:
    Powermac G5 Dual Core ( most modern, expandable), Powermac G5 Quad Core ( most modern, expandable, linux), iMac G5 ( small ), or Powerbook ( portable) depending on your needs.

    [ Edited by sailor 28.11.2023 - 10:35 ]
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »28.11.23 - 10:01
    Profile
  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2035 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Capricornus wrote:
    Hmm.. I am currently trying out MorphOs on the basic Mac Mini G4 (1.25Ghz), I like the small form factor and the quietness of the machine, but I do suspect that eventually I will struggle with it. I guess upgrading to the 1.5Ghz one would be the minimum.

    But if you're happy with the machine for your use and display needs, nothing prevents going on with it either. Good thing is that you can test it to get some kind of impression about the situation.


    Quote:

    My biggest issue with Power Macs is noise, the liquid cooling ones are also a big no, and they don't really look as nice as the Minis.

    Yeah, they're a bit clunky machines in that regard. I have few PowerMac machines (2.0, 2.3/dualcore, and 2.7 modded to air cooled) waiting when my mini breaks/retires, but so far I've just liked the quiet, small, and energy efficient solution more. I also have a Powerbook or two for a compromise, but I just find laptops uncomfortable always :)
  • »28.11.23 - 10:45
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 537 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    Capricornus escribió:
    Hello,

    Is there a good reason for getting a top spec Power Mac G5 to run MorphOS or is a standard Mac Mini G4 enough?

    Regards

    Well the best option to play 3D games is to buy a Power Mac G5 for the best graphic card and to dissipate heat for it has a best cooling fan system than Mac Mini G4, this computer is good for normal games and programs, but with the 3D games all time the fan is trying to remove the heat from the computer.
  • »28.11.23 - 11:06
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1245 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    I use some PMs here: 5x G5 from 1,8 to 2,3GHz and none is noisy! You can't nearly hear them.
    If they are loud, it depends on some issues:

    1. Correct calibration with ASD-Disk!
    2. To set propper temperatures (setcpufancontrol) in MorphOS
    3. Most of noise is'nt made by CPU-fans, but by backsidefan (radial-blower) which cools down North-Bridge! It is ablolutely necessary, that fan and heatsink of Northbridge is clean and thermal paste is'nt dry.
    (Btw.: Changeing a defective radial-blower is a real challenge!)

    There is something interessting too:

    Older PM are able to work only with one CPU (you can dismount the second one) - open firmware recognize it.
    In that case, Northbridge never get such high temperatures as when using 2 CPUs.
    I found out, that such PM also can be used in Open Firmware console, without going into emercency-cooling after a while (and this is really loud).
    PM can use up to 1,7GB RAM, different GraphicCards and other cards as SCSI, USB, Soundcards,.......as well.


    Mini: Good system to beginn MorphOS. 32MB GRAM is'nt much (as said above), but enough for normal screen-resolutions like 1650x1080 (or less). Useing Wayfarer may be challenging because of only 1GB RAM.

    PB: Have more power (1,67GHz) and more RAM (about 1730MB useable) ant they are mobile.

    Pegsaos2: The allrounder - if you can get one: Capable to run MorphOS, OS4, Linux, MacOS (Emulation) and is expandable with cards.
    Peg runs only with 1GHz, but it never feels slow. Peg can normaly use only 1GB RAM, except last built (Rev. 2B5), where stable working 2 GB are reported.


    MorphOS is also running on ACube Sam460cr/cx and A-EON X5000.
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »28.11.23 - 18:06
    Profile
  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2035 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote:
    Useing Wayfarer may be challenging because of only 1GB RAM.

    I'm running Wayfarer daily on 1GB, and I don't think I've ever run out of memory. Wayfarer is really better in memory usage than Odyssey, which ran out of memory daily. So, I wouldn't worry that at all.
  • »28.11.23 - 19:21
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1245 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    I use Wayfarer also every day - there are situations where Wayfarer consumes more than 1.4GB......
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »28.11.23 - 20:36
    Profile
  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2035 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Maybe it caches more if there's more memory? Or just different kind of usage patterns then... maybe about tab amounts etc?

    But in any case OWB just leaked memory and you had to quit it regularly or it ran out of mem, and you couldn't use it on certain heavy pages, but nothing like that with Wayfarer here.

    [ Edited by jPV 28.11.2023 - 21:49 ]
  • »28.11.23 - 20:47
    Profile Visit Website
  • esc
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 152 from 2013/5/28
    If what you wanna do is play vintage games, the Mac Mini G4 is probably perfect. I have a PowerMac G5 2.7ghz and I use MorphOS on my Mac Mini instead of that, because I don't personally plan to do any "modern" type computing on it, I just play vintage games as well. It's nice to be able to run old Amiga PPC games with Warp3D fully supported on the built-in GPU of the Mac Mini.

    Edit - there's no such thing as a 2.7ghz pmac g4. Fixed :P

    [ Edited by esc 29.11.2023 - 01:54 ]
  • »28.11.23 - 21:54
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    I also suggest the imac isight G5. All in all it is a system that offers enough power for convenient usage, looks rather nice and doesn't need a nuclear power plant in the basement to be operated.
    The imac is quite a tad faster on browsing than the mini 1.5 GHz or the Powerbook 1.67 (5.6 in my case). Mplayer can handle hd content okayish on that system.
    Surprisingly some things are faster on the G4: watching pictures with Showcase is faster on the G4 systems. The hdd in my mini yields better values than on the iMac - stunning, since the G4 has a PATA controller, but it delivers close to the max (kingston mSATA ssd with ide/mSATA adaptor, vs. a kingston SATA ssd in my iMac). With my hollywood scripts I also got better results with the G4.
    The iMac is really a nice system: rather silent (the mini's coolers are louder, the Powerbook ofthenly has these frequent brief spin ups of the coolers which is a bit annoying.

    Eventually it depends on your habbits: I use the Powerbook quite a lot as it lays beside my bed and that is very convenient. Well, usng the computer in the bed is not really a suggestion in regard of healthcare but pretty languorous...
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »28.11.23 - 22:02
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12090 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Sam460cr/cx

    That would be ex/cr/LE. And please don't ask me why the last one is uppercase ;-)
  • »28.11.23 - 23:25
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12090 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I have a PowerMac G4 2.7ghz

    Either massively overclocked or... ;-)

    > run old Amiga PPC games with Warp3D fully supported
    > on the built-in GPU of the Mac Mini.

    Yes, I hope MorphOS 3.20 will come with TinyRave for Rave3D/Goa3D/Warp3D on Radeon R300+.
  • »28.11.23 - 23:33
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1482 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    I'm in the Kronos & Zylesea corner . . .
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote: Get an iSight iMac. G5 power, less clutter than a Mini, reasonable power consumption, easy option to add a 2nd screen
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote: I also suggest the iMac iSight G5. All in all it is a system that offers enough power for convenient usage, looks rather nice and doesn't need a nuclear power plant in the basement to be operated. The iMac is quite a tad faster on browsing than the MacMini 1.5 GHz or the Powerbook 1.67 (5.6 in my case). . . The iMac is really a nice system: rather silent
    I didn't think I was a fan of the iMac initially, but the A1145 2.1GHz G5 has it's own 20" screen built-in, uses 185 Watt power supply, housed-inside case, with all the hardware tucked in the housing, so desk space is only the iMac itself, and as MorphOS can only use 1 CPU core then it's all you need. With v3.18 of MorphOS you can even switch the screen off/on with the keyboard shortcut (F1/F2), so that's another plus for me. 8-D
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
  • »29.11.23 - 01:59
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    analogkid
    Posts: 662 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    You could also be happy with one of the lower spec AGP G5 PowerMacs, which are maybe easier to find and a bit cheaper than the PCIe G5s or iMacs.
  • »29.11.23 - 07:40
    Profile
  • Just looking around
    Capricornus
    Posts: 14 from 2023/11/27
    So much great advice, I didn't expect this to turn into such an elaborate conversation. Thank you all and let me address your comments below.

    @Kronos - Quote:

    When in question, do neither.


    That is a very interesting suggestion, I never considered the iMacs since I wasn't sure about the design, although the more I look at them..

    @matt3 - Quote:

    I took a 2.0 GHz single processor PCIe system and put a 2.5 from a QUAD in it.


    Nice solution, is the swap difficult? I looked at some videos related to the liquid cooling servicing/replacement and a lot of it looks pretty difficult and risky.

    @sailor - Quote:

    My suggestions is one of this:


    Excellent summary that I will keep going back to for reference, thank you!

    @jPV - Quote:

    But if you're happy with the machine


    Good point, I do actually have an iBook G4 A1055 (2003) as well, but it is in a poor state with LCD backlight failing in places and a hard drive that needs replacing. I wouldn't risk purchasing a MorphOs license for that one.

    @Templario - Quote:

    Well the best option to play 3D games is to buy a Power Mac G5


    I don't plan on playing any games that were made after 2005, and I would only stick to dedicated MorphOs software.

    @Amigaharry2 - Quote:

    I use some PMs here: 5x G5 from 1,8 to 2,3GHz and none is noisy! You can't nearly hear them.


    Yes, the vram on Mini is very worrying and probably my main issue with them.

    @esc - Quote:

    If what you wanna do is play vintage games, the Mac Mini G4 is probably perfect


    Yup, although I would like to do some image editing as well, albeit light I think.

    @Zylesea - Quote:

    I also suggest the imac isight G5. All in all it is a system that offers enough power for convenient usage


    The more I read about iMacs the more intrigued I am, hm.. it does seem to tick all the boxes without being clunky.

    @Andreas_Wolf - Quote:

    That would be ex/cr/LE


    Why is the "LE" upper case?

    @NewSense - Quote:

    I didn't think I was a fan of the iMac initially, but


    I am almost convinced at this point :-)

    @analogkid - Quote:

    You could also be happy with one of the lower spec AGP G5 PowerMacs


    Yes, the asking prices are quite high at the moment, I guess these machines are entering the "vintage" phase of their existence and the price will only go up from here.

    Once again, thank you very much for so many great comments.
  • »30.11.23 - 11:10
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12090 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> I took a 2.0 GHz single processor PCIe system and put a 2.5 from a QUAD in it.

    > I looked at some videos related to the liquid cooling servicing/replacement
    > and a lot of it looks pretty difficult and risky.

    As far as I understand, he has kept the receiving system's air cooling.

    >> That would be ex/cr/LE

    > Why is the "LE" upper case?

    I'm eagerly awaiting plausible answers to this question ;-)
  • »30.11.23 - 11:33
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:


    I am almost convinced at this point :-)



    Keep in mind that an iMac G5 - while great as an "all-in-one" solution - is not so user friendly when it comes to servicing. I'd service a PowerBook any time over an iMac G5. And maybe even an iBook G4, nearly as clunky as it is to service.
  • »30.11.23 - 11:37
    Profile
  • Just looking around
    Capricornus
    Posts: 14 from 2023/11/27
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:


    I am almost convinced at this point :-)



    Keep in mind that an iMac G5 - while great as an "all-in-one" solution - is not so user friendly when it comes to servicing. I'd service a PowerBook any time over an iMac G5. And maybe even an iBook G4, nearly as clunky as it is to service.


    I have seen comments online about capacitors needing replacement on iMac G5s, is that standard practice on those machines? I have replaced them on my Amiga 1200 right after purchase, but I didn't know macs suffered with the same issues.
  • »30.11.23 - 11:46
    Profile