power mac g5 vs x1000/x5000
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 958 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    can you offer your opinions on power mac g5 vs x1000/x5000?
    which is faster?
    thanks
    Mac G5 ISight 21" 2.5 gb of ram 233gb hd matshita dvd-r uj-846
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
    ImageFX 4.5, PageStream 3.3, PhotoGenics 5.0
  • »16.05.23 - 16:36
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 665 from 2004/2/10
    I have no experience with the X1000 or X5000.

    I would imagine the G5's would be faster since they support altivec and they run at a higher clock. A 2.7GHz Mac plays HD media very smooth, not sure how that translates to the X series...

    When the new drivers are released the X series will be a great test platform to compare against the G5's.

    [ Edited by matt3 16.05.2023 - 12:02 ]
  • »16.05.23 - 17:01
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 958 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    so x1000 not supported yet?
    or are we talking a driver improvement?
    Mac G5 ISight 21" 2.5 gb of ram 233gb hd matshita dvd-r uj-846
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
    ImageFX 4.5, PageStream 3.3, PhotoGenics 5.0
  • »16.05.23 - 17:08
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 665 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    so x1000 not supported yet?
    or are we talking a driver improvement?



    I was referring to the new video card drivers that bigfoot is working on.

    That has been the only remaining issue with X5000/1000 users that the video cards aren't compatible with linux/AOS/MOS.

    With the new driver support they won't need to swap cards anymore I guess.

    It will also provide a level playing field where a Mac 11,2 PCIe can have the identical modern card as what is in the X series system. Although I would guess a lower level card that is currently supported by boxes is available now for testing.

    There may even have been a thread on this site comparing the two. I'm sure Andreas will know of it :).
  • »16.05.23 - 17:27
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 958 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    i see where x5000 is supported and there is install instructions.
    however, i cannot buy an x5000 at this time
    Mac G5 ISight 21" 2.5 gb of ram 233gb hd matshita dvd-r uj-846
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
    ImageFX 4.5, PageStream 3.3, PhotoGenics 5.0
  • »16.05.23 - 17:37
    Profile Visit Website
  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 537 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    bash64 schrieb:
    so x1000 not supported yet?
    or are we talking a driver improvement?



    The AEon X1000 platform is neither supported by MorphOS yet, nor are there any plans to ever support it in the future.
  • »16.05.23 - 17:40
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 958 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    i dont know how you quted me wrong but if you look at what i asked i asked about the x5000, not the x1000
    Mac G5 ISight 21" 2.5 gb of ram 233gb hd matshita dvd-r uj-846
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
    ImageFX 4.5, PageStream 3.3, PhotoGenics 5.0
  • »16.05.23 - 17:44
    Profile Visit Website
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1370 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    i dont know how you quted me wrong but if you look at what i asked i asked about the x5000, not the x1000



    He quoted you accurately. Please see the number 3 post in this discussion thread...
  • »16.05.23 - 17:59
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2243 from 2003/2/24
    Well he quoted what you wrote, so your saying what your wrote was wrong? I agree ;)


    But to the question:

    Back in the day when the X1000 was new it could barely hold up against a similar clocked G4 in most benchmark. Even those really old ones with SDRAM like a QuickSilver PowerMac.

    In theory the X systems should be faster due to better RAM standards but the X1000 completely fails to utilize that speed and neither is the X5000 which also lacks Altivec crippling it many intensive task.

    G5 isn't much faster then G4 clock by clock but it goes higher and can utilize it's faster RAM so yeah in terms of compute anything G5 is still king.
    X systems should consumer less energy but with the insane cost of entry that will never word out financially even with current prices.

    If you want the top in GPU X and PCIe PMAC_G5s are on the same level.
  • »16.05.23 - 17:59
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    can you offer your opinions on power mac g5 vs x1000/x5000?
    which is faster?
    thanks



    Having access to Power Mac G5 QUAD 2,5 GHz vs AmigaOne X5000/040 benchmarks (using similar graphic cards and the same MorphOS version) I can say the G5 is faster in most cases but it does consume significantly (up to 3 times) more power.
  • »16.05.23 - 18:02
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 958 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    thanks
    if i bought another G5 (gave mine away) i would strip it down to make it lightweight.
    but this all answers the question.
    G5 still wins
    aros went smp
    any hope for mos or aos going smp?


    [ Edited by bash64 16.05.2023 - 13:26 ]
    Mac G5 ISight 21" 2.5 gb of ram 233gb hd matshita dvd-r uj-846
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
    ImageFX 4.5, PageStream 3.3, PhotoGenics 5.0
  • »16.05.23 - 18:22
    Profile Visit Website
  • man
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    man
    Posts: 113 from 2019/11/11
    i like to know if x5000 become more faster with os4
    i heard that os4 use two processor
    a graphics card more recent (quake 4 for example)
    morphos
    only 1 processor
    old graphic card (Doom 3 )
  • »16.05.23 - 18:53
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 665 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    thanks
    if i bought another G5 (gave mine away) i would strip it down to make it lightweight.
    but this all answers the question.
    G5 still wins
    aros went smp
    any hope for mos or aos going smp?



    If you want the best G5 possible you have 2 options:
    1. Pick up a single processor 11,2 (2.0 or 2.3 GHz), then put in a 2.5 DC processor. Since MorphOS only uses one core/processor you will save a lot of heat and juice with doing that.
    2. Pick up a Dual processor 2.7GHz PCIx system. It has the most cpu power for MorphOS.

    These are the top pics if you want to get the best. Each system will have benefits over the other.
  • »16.05.23 - 18:56
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > When the new drivers are released the X series will be a great
    > test platform to compare against the G5's.

    Comparing MorphOS on G5 against MorphOS on X5000, both with identical graphics card, has always been possible and doesn't require new graphics drivers.
  • »16.05.23 - 22:45
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > That has been the only remaining issue with X5000/1000 users that
    > the video cards aren't compatible with linux/AOS/MOS. With the new
    > driver support they won't need to swap cards anymore I guess.

    No. The planned 3D drivers won't go higher than the already 2D-supported TeraScale 2 generation, which is still older than what OS4 supports as oldest generation (GCN1) in terms of PCIe GPUs. Besides, card swapping has not been necessary since MorphOS 3.17, which incorporated a bug fix to allow MorphOS running with two Radeon cards installed in X5000.

    > I would guess a lower level card that is currently supported
    > by boxes is available now for testing.

    Yes, the comparison has been possible for as long as MorphOS has supported the X5000.
  • »16.05.23 - 23:05
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > in terms of compute anything G5 is still king.

    Just to add that in pure integer performance, e5500/X5000 trumps equally clocked PPC970/G5.

    > If you want the top in GPU X and PCIe PMAC_G5s are on the same level.

    It's PCIe v2 vs. v1 but I'm not sure about the real-world impact on MorphOS.
  • »16.05.23 - 23:14
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > any hope for mos or aos going smp?

    Regarding OS4, latest info from AmiWest 2022:

    "a version of the kernel with multi-core support already exists. The operating system always runs on the first core, while other tasks are currently randomly assigned to one of the available cores - in later versions, a scheduler will of course always select the currently least utilized core. However, the multi-core variant of the kernel is still very prone to crashing and is difficult to debug. A demonstration of the multi-core kernel can be seen at A-EON's AmiWest booth, but Solie describes it as "not very exciting because it keeps crashing"."
    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2022-10-00104-EN.html
  • »16.05.23 - 23:23
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > i heard that os4 use two processor

    It doesn't.

    > a graphics card more recent (quake 4 for example)
    > morphos
    > only 1 processor
    > old graphic card (Doom 3 )

    Considering that Doom 3 is from 2004 and Quake 4 is from 2005, and the latter uses just a slightly enhanced version of the former's engine, I'm not sure those examples really convey what you intended ;-)
  • »16.05.23 - 23:30
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 958 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    ok, so morph can use the 2nd cpu.
    so if i still had my old g5 2.3ghz it would utilize both cpus?
    how long has this been available?
    i remember getting my g5 the moment they were supported


    [ Edited by bash64 16.05.2023 - 20:07 ]
    Mac G5 ISight 21" 2.5 gb of ram 233gb hd matshita dvd-r uj-846
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
    ImageFX 4.5, PageStream 3.3, PhotoGenics 5.0
  • »17.05.23 - 01:07
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    ok, so morph can use the 2nd cpu.



    No, it can not.
    As for the "multicore" support - what Andreas wrote is about OS4 (info from AmiWest 2022).
  • »17.05.23 - 06:43
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 958 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    ok, its for os4 and the x5000, if they ever start producing them again
    Mac G5 ISight 21" 2.5 gb of ram 233gb hd matshita dvd-r uj-846
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
    ImageFX 4.5, PageStream 3.3, PhotoGenics 5.0
  • »17.05.23 - 07:12
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    can you offer your opinions on power mac g5 vs x1000/x5000?
    which is faster?
    thanks

    My experience:

    G5 ID 11,2: supported Linux + MorphOS ( partial official support, in real all important works )
    - CPU with SIMD (AltiVec), 2 - 4 cores, 2.0-2.5 GHz, 1.9 MIPS/MHz/core
    - RAM max 16 GB DDR2
    - 4x PCIe v1.0: x16, x4, x8, x4
    - 2x Sata 150, 1x ATA 100 for DVD
    - this Mac is very fast, very power hungry and often picky with PCIe cards. Installation of linux is much more difficult there ( not base system, but proper booting )

    AmigaOne X1000: supported Linux + AmigaOS
    - CPU with SIMD (AltiVec), 2 cores, 1.8 GHz, 2.2 MIPS/MHz/core
    - RAM max 16 GB DDR2
    - 5x PCIe v1.0: x16, (or x8 +x8 ), x1, x1, x1
    - 2x PCI
    - 4x Sata 300, 1x ATA 133
    - X1000 is fast, but slower than G5. Has much lower power consumption. My X1000 has problems with compatibility of RAMs. I can place only one stick per channel, i.e. my RAM capacity is halved. Even if CFE firmware has many flaws, is much more variable and friendly than Mac OF.

    I have no experience:
    AmigaOne X5000: supported Linux + AmigaOS + MorphOS
    - CPU no SIMD, 2-4 cores, 2.0 - 2.2 GHz, 3.0 MIPS/MHz/core
    - RAM max 64 GB DDR3
    - 5x PCIe v2.0: x4, x4*, x1*, x1*, x1*
    *) total 4 lanes shared via PCIe switch
    - 2x PCI
    - 2x Sata 300
    - According to specs, she is probably very fast in non-SIMD tasks and you can use three OSes. Only PCIe switch causes some latency on bus.

    In 2020 I made some performance comparison here.
    This comparison is obsolete now, we have many new drivers. And also have in mind, that MorphOS is in most cases more effective than AmigaOS, and it is reflected in the benchmarks.

    My general opinion is that Powermac G5 2.5 GHz is faster than needed for MorpOS, iMac G5 is not good and X1000 is fine (but not for MorphOS, of course).


    [ Edited by sailor 17.05.2023 - 12:06 ]
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »17.05.23 - 07:21
    Profile
  • man
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    man
    Posts: 113 from 2019/11/11
    powermac g5 is better yes than x5000
    but perhaps morphos come to amd processor and they stop ppc
    so morphos become more faster then
  • »17.05.23 - 08:44
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > ok, its for os4 and the x5000, if they ever start producing them again

    Not just X5000. This is how the quote continues:

    "work is currently being done on porting the multi-core variant to A1222 plus, after which an adaptation to the AmigaOne X1000 is being planned. Solie hopes that porting the multi-core kernel to the other systems will provide new insights, since other processors are used there."
  • »17.05.23 - 10:35
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > G5 ID 11,2: [...] 1.9 MIPS/MHz/core

    This should be 2.9.

    > AmigaOne X5000: [...] 3.0 MIPS/MHz/core

    Some newer Freescale/NXP docs say it's 3.3 (32-bit) and 3.4 (64-bit).

    > probably very fast in non-SIMD tasks

    ...and non-FP tasks.
  • »17.05.23 - 11:26
    Profile