CPU architecture change?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    The Vampire V4 development is on a rapid pace of innovation. And the Vampire Team makes money on every Vampire sold. ApolloOS which is based on AROS is changing all the time and advancing. The MorphOS Team can ignore it at their own peril. I’m not sure what to say but the Vampire V4 is German engineering at it’s best. They work on it all the time night and day like a real Vampire. I hope the MorphOS Team can keep up. Laugh it off if you want but it’s absorbing almost all the sales of Amiga fans wanting to come back to the platform. I don’t pick any favorites in this race. I want to see all next generation Amiga like solutions succeed.

    [ Edited by discreetfx 14.03.2022 - 08:04 ]
    DiscreetFX
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  • »14.03.22 - 00:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Some users […] buy Vampires to play the Amiga 68k games
    > only because they can get them "free", as there are other
    > "users" that only have Amiga emulators with the same purposes,
    > "free" 68k games because these games are easy to download

    …or they do this simply because that's what they want to do and what Amiga is to them: playing the old Amiga games. There's nothing wrong with that. The fact that the old games are de facto free just comes in handy.
  • »14.03.22 - 00:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > in a video on youtube the test was done on a ryzen 3600

    Actually, it originated on Twitter.

    > I could not understand which graphics card was used for the test.

    Radeon HD4650.

    > I don't understand why those who work in the IT field in the
    > amigaos landscape do not grant Morphos x64.

    This statement is somewhat unclear to me. Who are you referring to with this?
  • »14.03.22 - 00:35
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2629 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    discreetfx wrote:
    The MorphOS Team can ignore it at their own peril..


    I don't think we're competing on the same market, nor for the same clients. Vampire is retro, if only because the hardware won't let it be good enough for anything else.
  • »14.03.22 - 02:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 155 from 2019/4/6
    @Andreas_Wolf
    -->This is the reason why I don't understand why those who work in the IT field in the amigaos landscape do not grant Morphos x64



    I said that badly:
    That's what I meant
    I don't know who could finance the Morphos x64 project in the "amigaos" market today.

    And because they persist in repeating the same ports of the same programs.
    I started using "doom" with the blizzard accelerator card on my A1200 over 30 years ago and still today all the same ports of similar programs continue to be repeated.

    It is clear that with a ryzen 3600 you can do other ports of recent software.

    It would be absurd to use a Ryzen 3600 and keep porting "doom and quake" :-)


    The difference between the current os dedicated to amigaos

    it would be just that,
    Morphos x64 which uses new programs that do not exist on other platforms dedicated to amigaos.
    it doesn't seem a little to me.

    I imagine many people would happily upgrade to Morphos x64
    if philosophy would be this.

    [ Edited by white 14.03.2022 - 07:39 ]
  • »14.03.22 - 06:03
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 687 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    x64 is dead,
    long live Arm64! :-)
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · iMac G5 12,1 17", MorphOS 3.16
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.16
  • »14.03.22 - 10:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> at the time there was no support for wifi but only on ethernet [...].

    >> AROS doesn't support wifi? Could have sworn the original
    >> port of wpa-supplicant to Amigaoid OSes was done to AROS.

    > the laptop I was using then a notebook had wifi but was not
    > recognized by Aros (not a compatible netbook )

    MorphOS only supports a miniscule set of Wi-Fi chipsets as well, so I don't think it stands out in this department compared to AROS.
  • »14.03.22 - 10:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I started using "doom" with the blizzard accelerator card
    > on my A1200 over 30 years ago

    I doubt that. ADoom was released in December 1997, a few days after the source code release. ADoomPPC followed in March 1998, so 24 years ago.

    > still today all the same ports of similar programs continue to be repeated.

    New open source engines for older (but recentish compared to Doom/Quake) games are constantly emerging. Main problem (beside endianness issues, lack of support libs and lack of CPU grunt) is that they require newer OpenGL standards with shaders and stuff, which MorphOS lacks.

    > It is clear that with a ryzen 3600 you can do other ports of recent software.

    You'd still need modernized graphics support. This doesn't emerge magically by running MorphOS on x64/AMD64 CPUs.
  • »14.03.22 - 11:05
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    terminills
    Posts: 86 from 2012/3/12
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> at the time there was no support for wifi but only on ethernet [...].

    >> AROS doesn't support wifi? Could have sworn the original
    >> port of wpa-supplicant to Amigaoid OSes was done to AROS.

    > the laptop I was using then a notebook had wifi but was not
    > recognized by Aros (not a compatible netbook )

    MorphOS only supports a miniscule set of Wi-Fi chipsets as well, so I don't think it stands out in this department compared to AROS.


    It may support one or two more than AROS due to the fact that when the wireless stack was ported to MorphOS from AROS they added support for the MAC wireless adapters IIRC. I merely asked a question I already knew the answer to due to me paying over 50% of the original bounty.
  • »14.03.22 - 19:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 395 from 2004/2/10
    I may try a vampire someday for the fun of it, when they release the 3000 version.

    But, for me MOS is the best Amiga replacement and nothing else is close. I use my PM 2.3 daily for work and it handles all the productivity software I use it for. If I play games it is only older games (quake 2, duke, rtcw) all of which work just fine on MOS. I'm not a real games other than that.

    Ambient is real slick and most of all the developers of MOS care about their users. I can't tell you how many times they help me by testing the software I rely on or remove bugs that are corrected with future releases. Heck, when I first bought MOS for my Peg II many years ago they updated the flame screen saver just because I found issues with it. Not at all necessary but so much appreciated.

    The spirit and experience that made the Amiga great for me in the 80's continues with this Team.

    I do hope for faster hardware support in the future so that I can realize all that Wayfarer and Mplayer have to offer, until then I will keep using my G5.
  • »14.03.22 - 21:01
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    I agree MorphOS is a great operating system. I’m just tired of running it on really old obsolete PPC hardware.
    DiscreetFX
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  • »14.03.22 - 22:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2027 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    jacadcaps schrieb:
    Quote:

    discreetfx wrote:
    The MorphOS Team can ignore it at their own peril..


    I don't think we're competing on the same market, nor for the same clients. Vampire is retro, if only because the hardware won't let it be good enough for anything else.



    I agree, but if MorphOS dosen't switch the CPU architecture soon it becomes retro, too. Or rather NG with a pulled handbrake. I appreciate your job very, very much. But especially Wayfarer shows us the limits of ppc. This ISA is simply dead, we need to do the isa switch soon! And we users are just full of sorrows if you/the team has the switch accordingly high on the agenda. Time just flys and - gosh - my not new mobile phone is so much faster than my G5 - it becomes hard to keep MorphOS as system #1 in everday usage.
    Don't get me wrong, I am still very appy with MorphOS, but I want to continue this love story, which goes on for about 2ß years already...
    --
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  • »14.03.22 - 22:28
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    discreetfx schrieb:
    It’s been a long time, it seems like hundreds or thousands of years. Any rough guess when MorphOS will be available on a new CPU architecture please? I heard it through the Grapevine that people are tired of waiting and going for Vampires. I’m ready to buy a new version of MorphOS when it’s ready.

    [ Edited by discreetfx 13.03.2022 - 00:04 ]


    I think there was a misuderstanding. I read similar from people who waited for Tabor and are now mainly investing in classic hardware (or already have, f.e. bought a Vampire).

    It is not that Vampire (or generally 68k hardware) is the same as MorphOS on PPC (or Tabor) but these people are interested (or better were interested) in both classic and NG and now lost interest in NG because of no hardware or at least no new stuff. They spent the money they had now already in the platform that creates more interest at the moment because of improving hardware and OS and new software and that is classic.

    Regarding people on classic only interested in free stuff that is simply not true, people buy new software. Of course most new software are games. That is what most current amiga users are interested in. Current active MorphOS users might there be exception and be interested to seriously use it as main system but that is only a minority. For the vast majority amiga stuff is only hobby and they use it next to the main system (running linux or Windows or Mac).



    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 15.03.2022 - 10:16 ]
  • »15.03.22 - 10:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    maurensen
    Posts: 358 from 2003/10/3
    From: Padova - Italy
    +1,
    I've lost interest on morphos PPC years ago afer my powermac goes dead.
    Now I've returned to classic and I'm having fun with my old trusty amiga500 with a mighty Pistorm.
    -------------------
  • »15.03.22 - 10:26
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1161 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    maurensen wrote:
    I've lost interest on morphos PPC years ago afer my powermac goes dead.
    Now I've returned to classic and I'm having fun with my old trusty amiga500 with a mighty Pistorm.



    What if your trusty Amiga 500 goes dead? Would you try to fix it, buy another one or lose interest in Amiga 68k?
  • »15.03.22 - 11:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    koszer schrieb:
    Quote:

    maurensen wrote:
    I've lost interest on morphos PPC years ago afer my powermac goes dead.
    Now I've returned to classic and I'm having fun with my old trusty amiga500 with a mighty Pistorm.



    What if your trusty Amiga 500 goes dead? Would you try to fix it, buy another one or lose interest in Amiga 68k?


    I think you guys do not want to understand... the reason why user drop a platform after hardware dies is they already lost interest before and are not interested to invest more money in it. And that normally has to do with the lack of new interesting stuff, normally new software. Hardware dying is the final event to leave, lost of interest already happened before.

    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 15.03.2022 - 11:59 ]
  • »15.03.22 - 11:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1161 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    the reason why user drop a platform after hardware dies is they already lost interest before and are not interested to invest more money in it.


    OK, so he lost interest in MorphOS. How could any ISA switch help in that case? It will be the same "not-interesting" operating system, just operating on a more recent and more powerful architecture.

    EDIT: You added a sentence about new software. Maybe I'm missing something but did Amiga 500 get any exciting new software recently that gave it any advantage over MorphOS?
  • »15.03.22 - 12:30
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    koszer schrieb:
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    the reason why user drop a platform after hardware dies is they already lost interest before and are not interested to invest more money in it.


    OK, so he lost interest in MorphOS. How could any ISA switch help in that case? It will be the same "not-interesting" operating system, just operating on a more recent and more powerful architecture.

    EDIT: You added a sentence about new software. Maybe I'm missing something but did Amiga 500 get any exciting new software recently that gave it any advantage over MorphOS?


    A ISA switch that only brings better hardware but no new software will not change much and certainly not bring the lost users back, at least as I see it. And with software I mostly think of new games that are developed for classic systems. The advantage they bring is fun to play with them. The hardware itself is inferior and will be in future. But there is development of new hardware (like graphic cards and other stuff), updated OS (AROS 68k and AmigaOS) and new software (mostly dedicated games). That keeps users interested.



    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 15.03.2022 - 12:54 ]
  • »15.03.22 - 12:52
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1161 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    And with software I mostly think of new games that are developed for classic systems. The advantage they bring is fun to play with them.


    They're exclusive, right? I cannot play any classic Amiga games on a MorphOS system?

    Quote:

    The hardware itself is inferior and will be in future. But there is development of new hardware (like graphic cards and other stuff)


    I see. A graphic card or a NIC will give classic Amiga real advantage over MorphOS.

    Quote:

    updated OS (AROS 68k and AmigaOS)


    Yes, MorphOS didn't get updated since a week or so.
    I think AROS 68k and AmigaOS need a lot (and I mean a lot) of time and work to get to the same level of usability as MorphOS.

    Quote:

    new software (mostly dedicated games). That keeps users interested.


    The new classic Amiga games (with a few exceptions maybe, like Jump!) are painful to watch at, not to mention playing them.
    I believe it's mostly the nostalgia factor that keeps users interested in classic Amiga.
  • »15.03.22 - 13:16
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    @koszer

    I think we agree to not agree and I leave again. You can think what you want and accept different views or not.
  • »15.03.22 - 13:24
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    maurensen
    Posts: 358 from 2003/10/3
    From: Padova - Italy
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    maurensen wrote:
    I've lost interest on morphos PPC years ago afer my powermac goes dead.
    Now I've returned to classic and I'm having fun with my old trusty amiga500 with a mighty Pistorm.



    What if your trusty Amiga 500 goes dead? Would you try to fix it, buy another one or lose interest in Amiga 68k?



    No, I'll fix it because using this old Amiga hw with this el cheapo accelerator is giving me pure fun maybe for the nostalgia effect.
    Back in time also MorphOS was fun, now simply isn't appealing to me, old PPC hw is not my route anymore.
    Sad becouse MorphOS is a great OS tied to this frigging ppc old hw.
    It's my opinion, feel free to think different :-)

    [ Edited by maurensen 15.03.2022 - 14:33 ]
    -------------------
  • »15.03.22 - 13:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1161 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    You can think what you want and accept different views or not.


    I accept that some people may act irrational because of nostalgia factor. I'm perfectly fine with a fact they have no arguments except for "Because I want to". In fact, that would be the only valid response if someone asked me why do I use MorphOS and not Windows/OSX on a mainstream machine.

    I just firmly believe no possible MorphOS ISA switch can change their minds, really. They will use their favourite Vampire/PiStorm/Amiga-emulator-in-a-box machine no matter what.
  • »15.03.22 - 13:38
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    koszer schrieb:
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    You can think what you want and accept different views or not.


    I accept that some people may act irrational because of nostalgia factor. I'm perfectly fine with a fact they have no arguments except for "Because I want to". In fact, that would be the only valid response if someone asked me why do I use MorphOS and not Windows/OSX on a mainstream machine.

    I just firmly believe no possible MorphOS ISA switch can change their minds, really. They will use their favourite Vampire/PiStorm/Amiga-emulator-in-a-box machine no matter what.


    It is irrational to use MorphOS too because if you would be "sane" you would use Windows or Linux or a Mac instead. As I wrote ISA change alone will not change the mind. Partly they are certainly lost at all. If it is just hobby and not your main system you think different and that is the case by many of the current users. Even if you say the games are all ugly and not interesting (i do not agree and also play PC ports on my system) and Aros 68k and AmigaOS so inferior (what I not care if true), even if you think so the morphos devs should think how to change the attitudes and at least keep current user base happy. Or they accept that the morphos camps perhaps shrinks and that they mainly work on the OS for themselves. That is also OK.
  • »15.03.22 - 13:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> "Because I want to" [...] would be the only valid response
    >> if someone asked me why do I use MorphOS and not Windows/OSX
    >> on a mainstream machine.

    > It is irrational to use MorphOS too because if you would
    > be "sane" you would use Windows or Linux or a Mac instead.

    That's exactly what he said in the comment you replied to.
  • »15.03.22 - 14:03
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1161 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    It is irrational to use MorphOS too because if you would be "sane" you would use Windows or Linux or a Mac instead.


    Isn't that just what I wrote in the post you're answering to?

    Quote:

    As I wrote ISA change alone will not change the mind. Partly they are certainly lost at all.
    (...)
    the morphos devs should think how to change the attitudes and at least keep current user base happy


    How can they do so? Sing and dance? They do what they're intended to: work hard to make MorphOS better.
    If people jump for a Vampire because they want to - what can the devs do to counter that? Call MorphOS "VampireOS" hoping that will fool them to stay?

    Quote:

    Even if you say the games are all ugly and not interesting


    I did not say that. I menthioned there are a few exceptions to the rule.
    Just look at this poll. People voted what's the best Amiga game of 2021 year. And the winner was "Blood", a port of an old PC FPS. Take a close look at this list please.
  • »15.03.22 - 14:10
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