CPU architecture change?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    It’s been a long time, it seems like hundreds or thousands of years. Any rough guess when MorphOS will be available on a new CPU architecture please? I heard it through the Grapevine that people are tired of waiting and going for Vampires. I’m ready to buy a new version of MorphOS when it’s ready.

    [ Edited by discreetfx 13.03.2022 - 00:04 ]
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  • »13.03.22 - 06:03
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1329 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Bill, please do not take this the wrong way but the idea that anybody would buy a Vampire because they are dissatisfied with the raw performance of, say, a Mac Mini G4 is laughable considering that the Vampire is substantially slower.
  • »13.03.22 - 06:18
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    I agree with you, I’m only letting you know what my customers have been telling me.
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  • »13.03.22 - 06:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1169 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    I guess if they're buying Vampires they didn't really want to use MorphOS in the first place, right?

    What has a Vampire has to offer to a MorphOS user? Less software to use and less computing power to run it?
  • »13.03.22 - 07:28
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1883 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    What has a Vampire has to offer to a MorphOS user? Less software to use and less computing power to run it?

    And it lacks a usable operating system (compared to MorphOS). For a MorphOS user it would be a big step backwards in every aspect.

    I don't know.. it isn't quite an NG machine (no power for modern software like browsers, videos, etc), but not quite a classic either (classic gamers etc don't necessarily need the extra power it offers to 68k). For me it's a bit too middle of everything :) I guess it might be a fun toy for those who never had an RTG setup or so.. toying around without any intentions to do more with it... I don't know if that's enogh to get any serious development in the future...
  • »13.03.22 - 11:23
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 155 from 2019/4/6
    For those who own an amiga and want to make it more efficient, the vampire is useful.
    To add hardware to the base machine.

    But in reality you always have a 68k system that was stopped many years ago '
    Only faster.

    Probably for those who have an amiga machine it is nice to add this hardware.

    Meanwhile, I would like to try Morphos in X64 version on my ryzen 5800 but I imagine that a possible graphics card support is on the Radeon (for PC I have always chosen geforce).

    How cool would Morphos be on X64 it would be blazing fast (I guess this).

    Could it be that you can't find someone who can fully fund the development for the X64 version?
    :-)

    My admiration for Morphos developers is very great for that,
    For making a new system that runs the "old amiga" software and with other things like a Browser etc. etc..

    And if a port for a Playstation 2 emulator will be developed later this would be very nice.
    This would open up new avenues for the x64 version of Morphos to use new software but is just an example.

    I would be happy to spend even more for the license because the x64 system itself is something that does not exist in any "amigaos" area
    This must be taken into account in the panorama and in the "amiga" market.

    Is it so difficult to understand for those who have the possibility and could fully finance the entire X64 project?
    To support the Morphos developers.

    :-)

    And all development would be focused on Morphos X64 only.
    Without thinking about hardware with projects that only waste precious time to always have the same old applications of 30 years ago.

    There is a lot to be said about this.
    Without going into the details of the new software that could be ported to X64.

    And it is useless to make new hardware for software developed 30 years ago' does not make sense.

    [ Edited by white 13.03.2022 - 14:04 ]
  • »13.03.22 - 12:27
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    In todays world almost everyone has a fast PC. So for many people MorphOS, Vampire, X5000, Amiga Forever are strictly for fun. So I believe that people buying stand alone Vampires in massive numbers are trying to recreate their classic Amiga experience with the added bonus of 24 bit color, 16 bit audio and almost all the features of the AAA chipset. The Vampire V4 stand-alone is not old used hardware. It’s a tiny affordable brand new hardware platform. Even the lowly A1000 can be upgraded with a V4 Vampire and that gives it specs similar to the AAA chipset Amiga that never got completed by Commodore.

    [ Edited by discreetfx 13.03.2022 - 07:15 ]
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  • »13.03.22 - 13:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 155 from 2019/4/6
    @discreefx
    Hi,
    I agree with what you say as I said,
    And it's nice to upgrade your amiga machine.

    But if Morphos developers can port everything to X64 I don't understand why they are not fully funded in their work.

    Personally I would go to them to see what they can do with Morphos X64 and if the development convinces me.
    Then I would finance this instead of releasing machines or systems running on obsolete hardware.

    But I'm not a person who can finance this (unfortunately) :-)
  • »13.03.22 - 13:34
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 440 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    ASiegel escribió:
    Bill, please do not take this the wrong way but the idea that anybody would buy a Vampire because they are dissatisfied with the raw performance of, say, a Mac Mini G4 is laughable considering that the Vampire is substantially slower.


    Some users (sorry because this is a personal thought) buy Vampires to play the Amiga 68k games only because they can get them "free", as there are other "users" that only have Amiga emulators with the same purposes, "free" 68k games because these games are easy to download, the real Amiga fan spend his money in MorphOS or AmigaOS4, buying machines and software, the others only think in the "free" games, because also I thought that neither they buy or give support to new Amiga 68k games, only a few fan users that they like buy the game with box,like the old good Amiga times.
    This the Amiga fan market, free...
  • »13.03.22 - 13:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    white schrieb:
    @discreefx


    But if Morphos developers can port everything to X64 I don't understand why they are not fully funded in their work.




    Who should finace them. There is no company behinfdnor a foundation or some private financier.

    Quote:



    But I'm not a person who can finance this (unfortunately) :-)

    Me neither and probably the other about thousand at least remotely active users also not. That's the problem. The user base is just too weak. MorphOS is no business.
    --
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    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »13.03.22 - 13:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    The Vampire V4 gets lots of brand new games and software too that take advantage of its AAA like advanced features. So you have brand new hardware and brand new software. Of course this does not take advantage of powerful new GPUs like the X5000 does. I would say not having the ability to plug in a high end GPU is a disadvantage.
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  • »13.03.22 - 14:00
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  • Just looking around
    Tomtom76
    Posts: 18 from 2021/6/26
    From: UK
    I agree with white. Also if MorphOS would be introduced on x64 i would be happy to pay for new license. I know Bigfoot did some progress but who knows where it will go. Maybe well just donete/bounty for it? I would be first to donate say £100 for that plus new license. Not much maybe but if every MorphOS user would do it....could be nice . Lets do it! Our machines wont last forever.
  • »13.03.22 - 14:38
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 524 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    If people want to play with 68k stuff they can surely get a Vampire if they want.

    I'm personally not interested in that, nor does this have any bearing with MorphOS.

    [ Edited by Piru 13.03.2022 - 17:26 ]
  • »13.03.22 - 15:25
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    @Tomtom

    If there was ever a bounty for a MorphOS architecture change I’m joining you with $120 USD donation. There are many things about MorphOS that I love and I see all the hard work and passion that went into its development. It should have been the new AmigaOS years ago but McBill screwed that up! It’s good he is banished from the Amiga scene now.

    [ Edited by discreetfx 13.03.2022 - 09:37 ]
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  • »13.03.22 - 15:36
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 155 from 2019/4/6
    Obviously the market is turning to something else like the "mini-amiga"
    a meaningless thing for amiga users.
    I have no idea how much this project cost.

    Like amithlon, a programming pearl left to itself years ago.

    I laugh when I read in other forums that the license with Morphos is paid.
    They have no idea what the developers do for this system.
    And above all they have no idea what can be done with Morphos.

    However, both on the powerbook I use Morphos works very well and I am already happy with this.
    Indeed it is really nice to use :-)

    It is a shame to know that it could be ported to X64 and no one can be found to fund this project.

    However compliments Morphos is really nice as a system.
  • »13.03.22 - 15:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11573 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> […] people are tired of waiting and going for Vampires.

    > For those who own an amiga and want to make it more efficient,
    > the vampire is useful. To add hardware to the base machine.

    I suspect that discreetfx was more referring to the standalone machines.

    > if a port for a Playstation 2 emulator will be developed later
    > this would be very nice. This would open up new avenues
    > for the x64 version of Morphos to use new software […].

    Huh? PS2 software running inside an emulator as new MorphOS software?

    > I would be happy to spend even more for the license because
    > the x64 system itself is something that does not exist in any
    > "amigaos" area

    AROS?

    > Is it so difficult to understand for those who have the possibility
    > and could fully finance the entire X64 project? To support the
    > Morphos developers.

    I think it's not about difficulty of understanding but about lack of commercial profitability.
  • »13.03.22 - 16:02
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 155 from 2019/4/6
    @Andreas_Wolf
    aros I started using it many years ago I would say at its first appearance at the time there was no support for wifi but only on ethernet I had changed the firmware of a usb-wifi stick of the German telephone company "O2" unlocking it to access also to other operators (at the time I was in germany) and I was able to connect to the network via wifi I do not think later this support has ever been integrated into Aros.
    Even though I mentioned it on #freenode

    ( unlike the vodafone usb-wifi stick, the o2 was perfectly recognized by aros and was able to work with Aros )

    I've been following him for a while but Aros doesn't make me too unstable for my taste.
    Besides the fact that it cannot be compared with Morphos at least in my opinion.

    All I've mentioned are just small examples but if I'm not mistaken there is no ps2 emulator on amiga systems today.

    Obviously, if we are talking about a PC then there is no need for any other system to work with everything.

    And of course having Morphos on X64 would be really nice :-)

    [ Edited by white 13.03.2022 - 17:42 ]
  • »13.03.22 - 16:28
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    Why not just cut to the chase and port MorphOS to Quantum Computers? Then you would really be ahead of the game and run MOS on cutting edge technology again. Maybe bleeding edge, I’m just kidding on that one but you can rent time on QC and use Amazon and Google Quantum Computers through the net. I really love me some Qubits.


    :)

    [ Edited by discreetfx 13.03.2022 - 10:43 ]
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  • »13.03.22 - 16:42
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2064 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    discreetfx wrote:
    The Vampire V4 gets lots of brand new games and software too that take advantage of its AAA like advanced features.


    That was also true for Amithlon, MorphOS and even that other one.

    After some time reality will kick in and both users and developers realise that it just an obscure platform aiming to mimic a future past that never was (and quite frankly never should have been).
  • »13.03.22 - 16:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Made Morphos open source. And let everybody use it on whatever they want.
  • »13.03.22 - 17:50
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    terminills
    Posts: 86 from 2012/3/12
    Quote:

    white wrote:
    @Andreas_Wolf
    aros I started using it many years ago I would say at its first appearance at the time there was no support for wifi but only on ethernet I had changed the firmware of a usb-wifi stick of the German telephone company "O2" unlocking it to access also to other operators (at the time I was in germany) and I was able to connect to the network via wifi I do not think later this support has ever been integrated into Aros.
    Even though I mentioned it on #freenode

    ( unlike the vodafone usb-wifi stick, the o2 was perfectly recognized by aros and was able to work with Aros )

    I've been following him for a while but Aros doesn't make me too unstable for my taste.
    Besides the fact that it cannot be compared with Morphos at least in my opinion.

    All I've mentioned are just small examples but if I'm not mistaken there is no ps2 emulator on amiga systems today.

    Obviously, if we are talking about a PC then there is no need for any other system to work with everything.

    And of course having Morphos on X64 would be really nice :-)



    AROS doesn't support wifi? Could have sworn the original port of wpa-supplicant to Amigaoid OSes was done to AROS.
  • »13.03.22 - 19:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 155 from 2019/4/6
    @terminills
    I don't remember well it's been 10 years maybe more,
    But the laptop I was using then a notebook had wifi but was not recognized by Aros (not a compatible netbook )
    it did not recognize the wifi but with the usb-wifi O2 stick I could connect and that wifi-stick was recognized.
    Changing the firmware helped unlock all available operators.

    But now this is not important :-)
  • »13.03.22 - 20:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 460 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    You know you are in Amiga-Land when the same discussion pops up over and over again over some 10 years... ;-)
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.17 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.1]
  • »13.03.22 - 20:36
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 91 from 2019/11/1
    I don't see any connection between Vampire and MorphOS.

    If you want just run some old Amiga games you can use UAE/WinUAE, if you love old 68k systems you can buy some 2nh hand old Amiga model or the new Vampire V4.
    All choices are good and can be combined simultaneously!

    About next MOS development rather than generic x86 PC, I'd like to see it on Arm RPi or eventually on old x86 Macs.

    Anyway maybe first step before change arch could be 64bit extension and later AMP/SMP support.
    Other critical aspects are more modern GPU support and in general today's common peripherals drivers.
  • »13.03.22 - 20:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 155 from 2019/4/6
    I talked about morphos x64 because if I'm not mistaken in a video on youtube the test was done on a ryzen 3600 but I could not understand which graphics card was used for the test.

    That's why I said that applications of a certain level could be developed and that have never appeared in the "amiga" landscape
    with grants and cash support to develop it.

    I meant that because with a ryzen 3600 I imagine that a software park never seen before on amiga and on an x64 processor can be developed.

    This is the reason why I don't understand why those who work in the IT field in the amigaos landscape do not grant Morphos x64.

    And if I have to have the most powerful hardware in the world to play "Gloom" or to use Eagle-Player that wouldn't make sense either.
    But it would be a good start for older "amiga" software to work and more advanced programs and utilities over time.

    Here this could be Morphos x64 in practice there is nothing like this on the "amigaos" market

    Now it is not my job to assess whether it is easy to port "linux" programs
    on Morphos on a Ryzen 3600 processor for example.

    That's why I would gladly pay 200 euros for a license like this.

    And it is clear that I have no money to burn.
    But I'd take it with my eyes closed if it existed. :-)

    [ Edited by white 13.03.2022 - 22:42 ]
  • »13.03.22 - 21:20
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