Beginners Setup
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    Hi guys,

    total newbie here: I would like to try this OS. I have a G4 Mac mini available. I work from home, and almost exclusively use my browser to work - I use things like JIRA, SALESFORCE, GOOGLE DRIVE, CONFLUENCE, etc. In other words, I am working in the cloud using web-based apps & services.

    What would you recommend as must-have apps for me? What is the best browser for MorphOS? What else would I need apart from the base system?

    I would appreciate any kind of guidance.

    Thanks




    pikewerfer
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »09.07.21 - 08:52
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 437 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Best Browser: certainly Wayfarer
    The other stuff: MorphOS Storage ;-)
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.15 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »09.07.21 - 10:18
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 413 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    pikewerfer escribió:
    Hi guys,

    total newbie here: I would like to try this OS. I have a G4 Mac mini available. I work from home, and almost exclusively use my browser to work - I use things like JIRA, SALESFORCE, GOOGLE DRIVE, CONFLUENCE, etc. In other words, I am working in the cloud using web-based apps & services.

    What would you recommend as must-have apps for me? What is the best browser for MorphOS? What else would I need apart from the base system?

    I would appreciate any kind of guidance.

    Thanks




    pikewerfer

    If you go to use Wayfarer you need in your MacMini G4 the 1GB of memory for you can work with these web-based apps.
    And for work with MorphOS programs you can install the Chrysalis Pack with all free programs and tools, available in MorphOS Storage:
    https://www.morphos-storage.net/?page=Chrysalis
  • »09.07.21 - 11:06
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    Hi all,

    thanks for your feedback. It is an Apple Mini Mac PowerPC G4, 1.25 Ghz, 37GB IDE, 1GB DDR SDRAM. I hope this will be sufficient then.

    I will get Wayfarer.

    I will also get the Chrysalis Pack - thanks for the hint.

    Once all is installed (I plan to install it via USB Stick), I will take a look around, and then let you know of my progress.

    Any further tips are, naturally, highly appreciated. I heard you can also run some of the old Amiga programs. Which ones would be recommended? And how does one do that?

    Cheers


    pikewerfer
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »09.07.21 - 11:28
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 413 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    pikewerfer escribió:
    Hi all,

    thanks for your feedback. It is an Apple Mini Mac PowerPC G4, 1.25 Ghz, 37GB IDE, 1GB DDR SDRAM. I hope this will be sufficient then.

    I will get Wayfarer.

    I will also get the Chrysalis Pack - thanks for the hint.

    Once all is installed (I plan to install it via USB Stick), I will take a look around, and then let you know of my progress.

    Any further tips are, naturally, highly appreciated. I heard you can also run some of the old Amiga programs. Which ones would be recommended? And how does one do that?

    Cheers


    pikewerfer


    Well almost all Amiga 68k programs, the games not because they use the graphics chips as ECS-OCS-AGA, but with MorphOS emulation of 68k you can run for example PPaint, GoldED, you can test them to know which program runs, but remember the games not except the simple games that don't use the Amiga chips, for example the workbench window games.
  • »10.07.21 - 11:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11408 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the games not because they use the graphics chips as ECS-OCS-AGA,
    > […] the games not except the simple games that don't use the Amiga chips,
    > for example the workbench window games.

    …and except the newer, even more complex games that use RTG/RTA.
  • »10.07.21 - 13:56
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    Thanks - sounds like we need something like a BEST APPS TO HAVE list plus download links :-) I will do some testing as soon as I have my setup complete.

    I work for Monotype, which is one of the larger font companies - I would be super-excited to look at the OpenType implementation on MorphOS - and help wherever I can. Maybe a special font? Or something like a font package that comes especially with this OS? Ideas.....
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »14.07.21 - 12:19
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1294 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ Quote:

    Maybe a special font? Or something like a font package that comes especially with this OS? Ideas.....

    Well, there is essentially zero budget for font licensing. Also, even if there was the option to include a selection of commercial fonts free of cost, the license would have to be both permissive and perpetual to be of any interest as anything else would risk the distribution of the OS due to lapsing font licenses or might cause other issues (punitive damages due to non-compliance or unlicensed distribution, etc).

    For developers of alternative operating systems (and other niche software), the high quality and open source fonts offered by services like Google Fonts are hard to beat.
  • »14.07.21 - 15:57
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    analogkid
    Posts: 618 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > …and except the newer, even more complex games that use RTG/RTA.


    Not all of them, but many.
  • »18.07.21 - 12:33
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:

    Well, there is essentially zero budget for font licensing. Also, even if there was the option to include a selection of commercial fonts free of cost, the license would have to be both permissive and perpetual to be of any interest as anything else would risk the distribution of the OS due to lapsing font licenses or might cause other issues (punitive damages due to non-compliance or unlicensed distribution, etc).

    For developers of alternative operating systems (and other niche software), the high quality and open source fonts offered by services like Google Fonts are hard to beat.


    True, the Google Fonts are really nice - we made most of them, and had a blast. Working with Google is awesome! :-)

    Anyway, no worries, I quite expected there to be no budget for such a thing, and that such a license would need to be perpetual. However, I do believe I might be able to convince my superiors that giving a little charity to something like MorphOS would be a nice gesture - and would please me. :-) Also you can never have enough good-looking fonts.

    Let me talk to a few people. I will get back to you about this.

    Cheers




    Pike
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »19.07.21 - 08:48
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1294 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    pikewerfer wrote: Also you can never have enough good-looking fonts.

    At first glance, that is certainly a nice sentiment.

    However, considering that the full Google Noto font set is 1.1 GB in size and the MorphOS 3.x ISO image is currently around 400 MB in size, I may have to disagree a tiny bit ;-)
  • »19.07.21 - 09:18
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1781 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    But if distributed through MorphOS Storage for users and 3rd party MorphOS developers, that would still be awesome and there can never be enough good-looking free to use fonts :)

    Or if you come up with a special case that they'd suit exceptionally well for MorphOS ISO too, why not count that option out either ;) Like fonts that work in tiny sizes for drive size information or fixed width ones for name mode listers, or narrow ones to save space with certain apps, etc...
  • »19.07.21 - 10:42
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1116 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ pikewerfer - that does seem like a nice gesture, and I'll keep a watch out for the reply to your chat with others that might bring about a really nice result for MorphOS.

    It always amazes me that there are so many fonts out there but so little printed material (PDFs) that can be browsed through for inspiration for documents to utilise them to their best advantage.

    So, if you manage to resource for MorphOS a number of fonts, would it be possible to catalogue all the fonts that you can earmark for use legitimately for MorphOS into a suitable document (PDF) with a profile (display) of what each font's name is, and alongside that (adjacent column) a reasonable representation (10-20 characters - or more) of what it looks like when it is printed out? 8-D
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »20.07.21 - 02:03
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    OK, started a few conversations concerning the fonts.

    Installed MorphOS from my USB stick - no issues. Am currently playing around with it - and having SO. MUCH. FUN.

    This is so neat. So nice. So crisp. So .... Amiga :-) I really love it. Mac mini is behaving beautifully.

    Next step - read the tutorial:
    https://library.morph.zone/Getting_Started#A_Beginner.27s_Guide_to_MorphOS

    Cannot tell you how assume it was to find one. Soooo many startups/companies do this wrong - they have an amazing product but are just unable to pull in the newbie. Not so here. This will be an interesting journey, no doubt.

    Next step will most probably be installing the Wayfarer browser. :-) Looking forward to getting online.
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »20.07.21 - 10:44
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    @ASiegel - I do agree, the iso should remain as small as possible. Maybe we could offer a font package free of charge for download to every MorphOS user? Will see what I can do here.

    @JVP - getting a nice package to install and use is rather easy. Getting special fonts that work in a special environment is harder - I would need to know more of the acceptance criteria and requirements. And naturally, these fonts are more expensive to design, so harder to get sponsored.

    @NewSense - you are talking about a Font Catalog, i.e. a PDF that lists all fonts that are part of the specific package? Yes, I can do that. Provided I get an ok from my boss for such a package :-)
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »20.07.21 - 10:50
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2451 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    pikewerfer wrote:
    @ASiegel - I do agree, the iso should remain as small as possible. Maybe we could offer a font package free of charge for download to every MorphOS user? Will see what I can do here.


    We already have a font download script. No reason why it couldn't be extended to download more.
  • »20.07.21 - 15:40
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    pikewerfer wrote:
    @ASiegel - I do agree, the iso should remain as small as possible. Maybe we could offer a font package free of charge for download to every MorphOS user? Will see what I can do here.


    We already have a font download script. No reason why it couldn't be extended to download more.



    Ah, so we could simply add to the existing repository. Sounds good. Give me until mid-August. I need to talk to a few people here :-)

    Concerning my journey: the system is up and running, and I have installed Wayfarer and Grunch. Currently wrestling with Wayfarer, as it does not want to do YT and FB (yes, I did install the additional lib) :-) . Most other standard websites work fine.

    Thinking about overclocking the Mac mini (from 1.25 to 1.5). Unfortunately, my hands are too shaky to do it myself :-D Need to find someone in the neighborhood.

    Next step on my journey: email client! Stay tuned.

    Oh, one more question concerning the fonts: Taking a look at FTManager, it seems MorphOS prefers OT TTF (or old TrueTypes). Do OT CFF work, too? Or will those not install/work?
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »21.07.21 - 09:06
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2451 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    No expert on font formats here, but the underlying freetype library should be fairly recent. If you have a font that doesn't want to install, feel free to send us a link.
  • »21.07.21 - 20:04
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1116 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ pikewerfer - If I understand the differences, it seems that CFF (Compact Font Format) fonts are Open Type based, but have some nuances in their design, as they use Cubic Bézier design, whereas TT (TrueType) fonts use quadratic Bézier design, which is a slightly more complex/laborious way of representing the glyphs. Additional to that rasterization of OT/CFF fonts seems to reduce the size of the font data, thus saving from about 20% to 50% in data size for each font. Which is even more apparent, I'm told, with Chinese, Japanese and Korean glyphs as they use more complex font glyph design which enlarges the font data compared to US/European font types.

    As MorphOS uses mainly TT Fonts I have not really been aware of CFF types, even though it seems they have been around since the late 1990s, but they do not seem to be particularly popular even on Windows or Macintosh Operating Systems as a general rule, as TT and OT fonts are more prevalent on those OSs, like MorphOS, but CFF seem to get incorporated into PDF documents on a more prevalent basis, if I've got that correct?

    However, there seem to be a few converters online that can convert such fonts from CFF to TTF/OTF so we should be able to make use of CFF, but possibly only if converted to TTF, unless you are able to have them supplied/available for download as TTF by default? :-?

    That's unless the MorphOS TT font engine/library can utilise them as-is, which is still, as far as I am aware, an unknown. As it seems you'll have some CFFs to hand, then maybe you'd like to try some of them on MorphOS and see how that goes and let us know, as I would like to know if CFF do get recognised correctly and can be used "out-of-the-box". 8-)
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »22.07.21 - 07:52
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    @NewSense:

    not quite - but close.

    OT CFFs are OpenType fonts using PostScript outlines (Cubic Bézier) while OT TTFs are OpenType fonts using TrueType outlines (Quadratic Bézier). OT CFFs have the ending .otf. OT TTFs have the ending .ttf. Both fonts are OpenTypes.

    Most professional font foundries prefer OT CFF because their old fonts were all created with PostScript outlines (which was the preferred outline type for printers, desktop publishing (Macintosh!), graphic design, etc.). It was, therefore, a lot easier for them to convert their data into OpenTypes. Adobe is a good example here. They ONLY offer OT CFF.

    Microsoft, however, insisted on OT TTF - because all of their system fonts were TrueType. They also insisted on the ending .ttf. Otherwise, their older applications would not have been able to read the new fonts.

    Free fonts are usually OT TTF since it is a lot easier to create those.

    However, OT CFF is fast becoming the industry standard. Most operating systems and applications can nowadays do both, so foundries no longer take the extra work to create an additional OT TTF (Monotype is actually one of the few foundries that still does this for the majority of their fonts). Also, more and more free font tools allow you to create OT CFFs. The quality in high-res of those fonts is usually a little better, which is why the design industry prefers them.

    Concerning Converting tools: most foundries/licenses actually completely prohibit converting their fonts. Even free fonts usually do not allow this - only true OpenSource fonts under the Gnu Public License usually allow converting fonts. So I would strongly advise against converting fonts unless you have 100% permission from the owner/creator.

    If MorphOS is using the FreeType library, then there is a good chance it can actually use OT CFFs. They work fine on Linux.

    What would be the easiest way to install and test a font? I found the fonts folder, but it seems to be empty... How do I install, and what app should I use to test?








    [ Edited by pikewerfer 22.07.2021 - 13:13 ]
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »22.07.21 - 12:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1116 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    pikewerfer wrote: What would be the easiest way to install and test a font? I found the fonts folder, but it seems to be empty... How do I install, and what app should I use to test?

    I imagine you have the folder option only visible to show Icons. You need to change the view to show "all files", or "thumbnail" by using the right mouse button context menu.

    These options can also be set as a default for your system, to any of the options available - from Ambient Settings > Window > and then look towards the bottom of that page to find [option] "Default View" - Icon/List. With a further [option] "Default View Mode" Icons/All files/Thumbnails, with the [option] to inherit view mode from one directory to sub-directories which is active if the button has a checkmark/tick visible on it).

    If you've managed that step then any new/additional fonts should be placed in the SYS:Fonts directory in a sub-directory you may have to create, and name it "_ttf" (so that's the default partition with all the MorphOS system folders (C, Devs, *Fonts*, Libs, Locale, etc.)/applications/games, etc. in it) in that Fonts directory, NOT the MorphOS (MOSSYS:) directory that resides in the SYS: directory.

    If you swap to that "All Files" option and you may see that the folder now seemingly contains some more files/folders. Though if this is a new installation you may only have the Fontconfig directory in there as the MorphOS -> MOSSYS directory installs some truetype fonts into its own fonts directory - which you are strongly advised not to change in any way.

    The MorphOS (MOSSYS:) directory should never be changed/added to/deleted from - apart from when instructed to do so, by a MorphOS Development Team Member, like the Wayfarer installation that requires the new "cgxvideo.library" added to the Libs directory to enable the new functionality for Wayfarer.

    If in doubt then please read the MorphOS Library instructions on installing TrueType Fonts and consider using the FTManager which resides in the SYS:Tools directory if you think that is necessary.

    As to applications to try out the new fonts, then I suppose I'd suggest Folio Beta version for use with OWB web-browser, but you cannot use it with Wayfarer currently as the Wayfarer engine does not fully interpret the application into a tab. So, you'd have to launch OWB v1.26 and then go back to Ambient, if you are running OWB/Odyssey on a separate screen, and launch Folio by double-clicking on its icon and it should open a new tab in OWB/Odyssey that you can write/edit in. Though you could choose any of the other Office > Wordprocessor applications on MorphOS Storage that offer such font choices/options. 8-D

    I take it you don't have any legacy Amiga software that uses ttf fonts, such as PageStream ?
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »23.07.21 - 02:52
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1781 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    I googled an example CFF font yesterday, and at least with a quick try these font install/config tools didn't accept it...

    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    As to applications to try out the new fonts

    Or just try with MorphOS Preferences -> Font, or with some Ambient or MUI settings... it might be even enough to just open the font requester with any of those and see if the fonts are available there and if the preview is rendered.
  • »23.07.21 - 07:16
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    @NewSense - thank you so much for the detailed reply, this was VERY helpful!

    So I put an OT TTF (Helvetica Now MT TEXT TTF) and an OT CFF font (SYNTAX PRO ROMAN OTF) into SYS:FONTS:_ttf

    Here I noticed the first strange incident. After copying the two files:

    HelveticaNowMTText.ttf
    SyntaxLTPro-Roman.otf

    to SYS:FONTS:_ttf, I received

    ._HelveticaNowMTText.ttf
    SyntaxLTPro-Roman.otf

    So for some reason, the system renamed the ttf but not the otf.

    I then went to MORPHOS STORAGE and downloaded MORPHEUS. It seems to be a Unicode-able Wordprocessor.

    And low and behold - it showed SyntaxLTPro-Roman in its list of fonts. I selected it - and it worked just fine! Success (the app as such is pretty clunky, though). However, I could not find the font in any other font list (which only seems to load the system fonts).

    I also could not get the TTF to work. It did not show up anywhere, not even MORPHEUS was able to see it. I renamed it, removing the ._ but that did not help either. Will continue to look into this. Fascinating.
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »23.07.21 - 14:15
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 23 from 2021/7/9
    BTW - I tried to make screenshots for this thread, therefore installed Screenshot 1.4. However, I am using a Mac keyboard. And every time I try to adjust the keys to trigger Screenshot in the Screen Settings, the whole system freezes on me. If anyone can recommend a better way of making screenshots, I would be happy.

    BTW. should anyone wish to accompany me in terms of font testing, let me know, and I will send you those two fonts. For testing purposes, this is ok. :-)
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.15
  • »23.07.21 - 14:52
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