I updated my 3.11 to 3.14. This went flawless i think. But when i launch FS it says in the about box it is still v1.6 (23 feb 2020) (c)2010-2019.

The 3.14 releasenotes have FS mentioned with some upgrades, what is the latest release then and did it get skipped during installation?

> I updated my 3.11 to 3.14. [...] FS [...] says in the about box it is still
> v1.6 (23 feb 2020) (c)2010-2019. [...] did it get skipped during installation?

MorphOS 3.11 is from 2018, so...

Hi amifrog,

same version here (MorphOS 3.14), certainly a forgotten...

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Yes, but i don't remember if i had it installed later on, like Iris and other stuff.

No, it doesnt need an extra installation. It comes with MorphOS.

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I doubt neither of these changes were made in the main exe so all should be fine.

> doubt neither

;-)

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I'm guessing this comment of yours is a critique of kronos use of English, but as a native (American) English speaker, his use of "doubt neither" in the context used, makes perfect sense to me. Of course, not all American's know or use proper English, so you might be correct in criticizing that sentence or word use, and I am in error. Everyone knows that it wouldn't be the first or last time I have been mistaken.

The word "neither" is not used much, so perhaps many Americans use it incorrectly, and I might be one of them. In the sentence kronos wrote, I would think that both neither, or either would work the same and convey the same meaning (to an American anyway).

> as a native (American) English speaker, his use of "doubt
> neither" in the context used, makes perfect sense to me.

Interesting. I, following my recollection from English lessons at school (focussing on British English but given by non-native speakers, mind you) would have used either of those exemplary expressions:

"I doubt either of these changes were made in the main exe [...]."
"I think neither of these changes were made in the main exe [...]."
"I doubt neither of these changes weren't made in the main exe [...]." ;-)

> I would think that both neither, or either would work the
> same and convey the same meaning (to an American anyway).

To me, "doubt neither of these" reads like the opposite, similar to "doubt none of these". I (wrongly?) understand "neither" as kind of contraction of "not" and "either".
Maybe a non-American native speaker can chime in and enlighten us about their use of either expression ;-) Thanks for your input, though.

@amigadave

Forget about it. If you follow this and other Amiga forums over the last decades then you realize that for Andreas it is the most important thing to point at mistakes of other people, to laugh about them in public and jerk off.

Equal goes it loose !!!

To round it up, any update to Flow Studio comes with a new MorphOS version only?

@ Andreas_Wolf

Double negatives are not uncommon in casual communication.

"Ain't got no money" is another frequently used colloqualism. I am also quite positive you have heard the Pink Floyd song "We don’t need no education" before, which has been used numerous times in TV series and movies.

There are many more examples.

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We sometimes update it with the SDK too, but otherwise it gets updated with the OS.

> for Andreas it is the most important thing to point at mistakes of other people

As you sure know if you really follow my postings, in virtually all cases it's about factual mistakes, which I find important to challenge and correct. In virtually all cases, I totally ignore grammar or orthographic mistakes (knowing I happen to make plenty of them myself when communicating in a foreign language). There's one exception, though, that I certainly have a soft spot for and comment on once in a blue moon: (presumably inadvertently) entangling in multiple negations and ending up with the opposite of the envisaged statement.

> to laugh about them in public and jerk off.

Damn, seems I really forgot to tape off the webcam ;-)

> Double negatives are not uncommon in casual communication.

Yes, I'm aware of double negatives meant to intensify the negation in certain English dialects (instead of cancelling one another). I don't remember having come across an intentional one with "neither" from a native speaker, though :-)

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The last sentence above does not sound or read right to me. I think you are getting mislead by focusing on the combination of "doubt neither", instead of separating it into "doubt", and "neither of these changes", but I might be wrong in what you are thinking. I admit that it may be easier for a non-English speaking person to understand if he had used "any of these changes were made in the exe." But as I posted already, his word choice was easily understood by most if not all native English speakers.

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See my point above, about combining doubt with neither to convey "no doubt of changes ...", instead of "doubt that none of the changes being made in the main exe".

After reading the above, I don't think I am really explaining it well, and might be causing more confusion. Better to just accept what Jacek wrote about double negatives being used often in English.

Edit: Your English schooling was no doubt more correct, than actual usage of English in communications between native speaking users of the English language. English is after all one of the most confusing languages in the world.



[ Edited by amigadave 03.11.2020 - 13:52 ]

>> "I doubt neither of these changes weren't made in the main exe [...]." ;-)

> The last sentence above does not sound or read right to me.

It is formally correct in terms of content, i.e. a true proposition, just not easy to decipher due to the combination of 3 negations. Indeed, nobody in his/her right mind would say something like this in a normal conversation, though. It's better suited to exercises in propositional logic, hence the smiley.

> I think you are getting mislead by focusing on the combination of
> "doubt neither", instead of separating it into "doubt", and "neither
> of these changes", but I might be wrong in what you are thinking.

Yes, I think you are wrong here. I'll try another way of explaining exactly how I process the meaning of the expression "I doubt neither of these changes were made in the main exe [...]." I start with the basal (but obviously false) proposition in (1) and progress from there by adding the preposed constituents in (2) and (3):

(1) "these changes were made in the main exe" = A
(2) "neither of [A]" = not A
(3) "doubt [not A]" = not [not A] = A

As can be seen, the outcome of (3) and thus overall meaning of the expression equals the meaning of the false proposition in (1). Of course, this is unless the concept of two negations intensifying the negation instead of cancelling one another is applied.

> Better to just accept what Jacek wrote about double negatives
> being used often in English.

It wasn't Jacek, and I know about this concept (after all, there are German dialects using this concept in certain contexts as well, like Bavarian). Just to get you right, do you as a native English speaker read the sentence in question as a case of negation-intensifying double negation?

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Personally, I would never worry about it being a negation-intensifying double negation, or a simple grammar, or even typing mistake. I just believe that most, if not all native English speaking people would understand the correct meaning intended by the author of the statement, without any confusion, which is why I posted my opinion about your response to it.

Being a native English speaker, I can't really relate to how English grammar mistakes affect members here who are not native English speakers, but I assume that the English language can be quite confusing to some people, and grammatical mistakes are often made even by native English speaking people (maybe more often than non native English speaking people, because we don't worry about it and get lazy).

Edit: Any further discussion about this should be done in private, or another thread, so we don't derail this thread any further.

[ Edited by amigadave 04.11.2020 - 19:40 ]

Englishman here.

It's not correct grammar but it's understandable, so not an issue.

I speak several languages (Shocking I know, we are famous for barely speaking our own language let alone others!) and one of the things I appreciate most about English is that when a non-native speaker makes a mistake it's usually easy enough to understand what the intent of their statement is compared to some other languages with more strict grammatical rules.

[ Edited by Intuition 05.11.2020 - 07:42 ]

> Englishman here.

Hi, thanks for chiming in :-)

> It's not correct grammar but it's understandable, so not an issue.

Okay, so it's apparently
- incorrect, yet understandable in the specific context for a native British English speaker
- making perfect sense as "neither" and "either" are interchangeable in the specific context for a native American English speaker

Thanks, and again what learned, as a former German football/soccer star would say (sorry, stupid joke intended for Germans) :-)

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There is The Queen's English and there are mistakes. ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist. My daughter had an American teacher in Bosnia who told her that she spells incorrectly. The bloody cheek of it! Lol