Important Notice regarding X5000 Firmware Updates
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    TrevorDick
    Posts: 130 from 2005/10/12
    From: Wellington
    Mark,

    Not sure why you posted on a public forum but I can assure you that uboot firmware updates for the X5000 have not been circulated outside the ExecSG team.

    The excellent work you did for me on uboot helped the ExecSG team create a standard uboot build process. As I assured you at the time, I will ensure that any and all future uboot updates for the the X5000/20 and X5000/40 will support MorphOS. I have a vested interest since I run MorphOS on my X5000/20 :-)

    The ExecSG kernel work will not impact on MorphOS support.

    Trevor

    [ Edited by TrevorDick 29.10.2020 - 09:28 ]
  • »28.10.20 - 22:14
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 628 from 2011/11/30
    Tbh I think it's good for their userbase to be experimenting with different alternatives and approaches for such an important feature, even by taking (technically) the wrong path and perhaps ending up breaking other stuff. Vast majority of owners must have bought X5k for OS4, a tiny percentage for MorphOS (even if some users switched in between) and perhaps virtually no one for explicit linux desktop purpose. I don't think that even a fraction of OS4 X5k users would care if bringing SMP is being delivered with a "hacky" or technically competence way or if it leads to Linux or MorphOS installations stop working (which might have not even been installed to begin with), as long as such an important feature (cause it is important nonetheless) is present and actually works from user's pov. Well, at least I know I wouldn't give a damn if MorphOS x64 prevented Windows (or any other OS) from booting on latest Intel i7 :) Regarding MorphOS official support, can easily and formally be revoked if a non approved third party UBoot firmware is installed. It's a simple and clear statement, so any potential buyer/user can weight his final decision for purchase.
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »28.10.20 - 22:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 727 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    Knowing SSolie dirty tactics (remember the announcement of os4 laptop because MorphOS had recent PowerBook support or the os4 fanboys publishing news about random os4 sdl Game ports quickly after a MorphOS release to try to hide them?) it's no surprise. He's a MorphOS hater as shown in various forums, he came to troll here about MorphOS funding and other random stuff, he fought for controlling OS4 to end up stagnating OS4, he hoarded the Mozilla sources to avoid releasing them (thus violating the bounty agreement), but hey he has read very interesting books about project leadership so he's probably the best choice to put the last nail in the os4 coffin. I'm sad for all the efforts you put but it's better to stay away from os4 developers/managers and os4 hardware as both are toxic.

    [ Edited by Crumb 28.10.2020 - 22:21 ]
  • »28.10.20 - 22:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11447 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > SSolie dirty tactics (remember the announcement of os4 laptop
    > because MorphOS had recent PowerBook support [...])

    If this was a "dirty tactics", it certainly wasn't SSolie's, who simply read out the announcement he was given by Ben Hermans. He made some stupid mistakes by doing so and it was easy to believe when he said he had no clue about what it was that he was reading out.

    > ([...] or the os4 fanboys publishing news about random os4 sdl
    > Game ports quickly after a MorphOS release to try to hide them?)

    How is that a "dirty tactics" of SSolie?

    > it's no surprise

    As I read bigfoot's story, SSolie was the one who actually revealed the reason to him.
  • »28.10.20 - 22:48
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 504 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    TrevorDick wrote:
    Mark,

    Not sure why you posted on a public forum

    Probably because it would be too late to warn people if a broken firmware were to be installed. Since it is not known when such firmware might be released the warning had to come out now.

    Quote:

    As I assured you at the time, I will ensure that any and all future uboot updates for the the X5000/20 and X5000/40 will support MorphOS. ... The ExecSG kernel work will not impact on MorphOS support.


    I genuinely think you're a nice guy, but are you qualified to understand the finer details of firmware development? If yes, then I might have some more confidence in this statement. The incompetence of the ExecSG Team in around building the firmware suggests another scenario though: No one in the team has a clue what they're doing. While there likely is no malicious intent, it could well end up breaking the support by accident.

    Hence the warning.

    [ Edited by Piru 28.10.2020 - 23:55 ]
  • »28.10.20 - 22:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2789 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I like Trevor and truly believe that his intentions have been to help the "community", but I must totally agree with what Piru just wrote. There is no way that Trevor can guarantee that any work the ExecSG team releases won't break something else. Even extensive beta testing does not always reveal every problem in new work.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »29.10.20 - 00:25
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    TrevorDick
    Posts: 130 from 2005/10/12
    From: Wellington
    Quote:

    Piru wrote:
    "I genuinely think you're a nice guy" Thanks :)

    >> but are you qualified to understand the finer details of firmware development<<

    Whether I'm qualified or not, I don't intend to approve the release of uboot firmware for A-EON's X5000/20 or X5000/40 systems which does not support the booting of MorphOS.

    I trust that is the end of the discussion.

    Trevor
  • »29.10.20 - 00:27
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1296 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    I took the liberty of adding bold styling to a portion of Mark's post. Hopefully, this will make it clearer that this is about far more than the mere ability to somehow boot into the MorphOS desktop environment.
  • »29.10.20 - 08:56
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 504 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    None of the answers seen (here or otherwise) actually address the concerns raised.

    As such the original statement stands: Do no upgrade the firmware to versions other than ones approved by bigfoot if you wish to be certain that MorphOS continues to work.
  • »29.10.20 - 10:36
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    amigakit
    Posts: 41 from 2005/8/24
    A-EON Technology is not affiliated to the "ExecSG" team as Trevor has pointed out.

    The private branch of the firmware is used for testing and developing the ExecSG projects and has nothing to do with the consumer release of the firmware.

    The official X5000 firmware that is distributed on X5000 systems and board is the version that BigFoot has worked on for A-EON over some years.

    He is the official maintainer of the firmware for A-EON. A-EON is happy for this relationship to continue going forward and presumably BigFoot is too (his schedule permitting).
    www.amigakit.com - Amiga store
  • »29.10.20 - 14:17
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 504 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    amigakit wrote:
    The private branch of the firmware is used for testing and developing the ExecSG projects and has nothing to do with the consumer release of the firmware.


    I'm even more confused now. Does this mean that the firmware is only needed for development purposes and no new firmware update will be needed for end users?

    Even more confusingly the ExecSG presentation slides say:

    Quote:

    U-Boot and AmigaBoot updated to support multicore


    Some clarification is in order I think.
  • »29.10.20 - 14:33
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    amigakit
    Posts: 41 from 2005/8/24
    Quote:

    I'm even more confused now. Does this mean that the firmware is only needed for development purposes and no new firmware update will be needed for end users?


    A-EON only distributes and releases official firmware which BigFoot is the maintainer. He took over from Varisys' contractor for A-EON quite some time ago. We were very happy that he could maintain the firmware and get the project back on track.

    I have no idea what happens in the ExecSG Team internally. Third party branches are not official updates and therefore are not distributed by A-EON or installed on A-EON consumer product when they go out of the door.
    www.amigakit.com - Amiga store
  • »29.10.20 - 14:41
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 504 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    amigakit wrote:
    Quote:

    I'm even more confused now. Does this mean that the firmware is only needed for development purposes and no new firmware update will be needed for end users?


    A-EON only distributes and releases official firmware which BigFoot is the maintainer. He took over from Varisys' contractor for A-EON quite some time ago. We were very happy that he could maintain the firmware and get the project back on track.

    I have no idea what happens in the ExecSG Team internally. Third party branches are not official updates and therefore are not distributed by A-EON or installed on A-EON consumer product when they go out of the door.



    Okay sounds good, except that it doesn't answer my question definitely. "Yes" or "no" would suffice.

    Also there is this statement from Steven Solie:
    Quote:

    The only U-Boot firmware you need comes directly from the board manufacturer (A-EON) and includes "aeon" in the version string. The new U-Boot will be released after beta testing has been completed.

    So there is something being beta tested that is supposed to be released. How come bigfoot is totally unaware what this new firmware does?

    My confusion remains.
  • »29.10.20 - 15:13
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 504 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Free hint: You guys (Trevor, Matthew & Steven, plus whoever else might be involved) should talk to each other first and agree on what you're actually doing and how, and how it will be communicated and by whom.

    Also: If you intend Bigfoot to be the gatekeeper of the firmware, then please please involve him in the process properly. He has been extremely patient (more than I would have ever been in the same position) in trying to offer his help in ensuring things don't get fucked up. He has been completely ignored. Hence us being in this situation.
  • »29.10.20 - 15:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11447 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> U-Boot molsen-2018-10-05 (Oct 05 2018 - 17:02:05)

    > "The only U-Boot firmware you need [...] includes "aeon" in the version string."
    > [...] My confusion remains.

    Same here :-)
  • »29.10.20 - 15:50
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    amigakit
    Posts: 41 from 2005/8/24
    @Piru

    There are two distinct entities here:

    * ExecSG Team with a private branch of the source code

    * A-EON Technology Ltd with official source maintained by BigFoot

    I am not involved, or have been asked to be involved with ExecSG Team and therefore do not speak for them. I also do not know what they are working on except for news snippets of information that come my way from time to time.

    Quote:

    You guys (Trevor, Matthew & Steven, plus whoever else might be involved)


    Bundling us together is maybe why you and others are confused and asking for clarification.

    Quote:

    So there is something being beta tested that is supposed to be released. How come bigfoot is totally unaware what this new firmware does?


    I have not been give access or ever used this new third-party firmware so I am unaware also. I presume that SSolie will distribute it to their group of beta testers. I am seeking clarification now. As I mentioned before, official A-EON X5000 firmware is maintained by BigFoot unless he chooses otherwise.
    www.amigakit.com - Amiga store
  • »29.10.20 - 16:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11447 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Bundling us together is maybe why you and others are confused
    > and asking for clarification. [...] I am seeking clarification now.

    ;-)
  • »29.10.20 - 16:28
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 504 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    amigakit wrote:
    @Piru

    There are two distinct entities here:

    * ExecSG Team with a private branch of the source code

    * A-EON Technology Ltd with official source maintained by BigFoot

    I am not involved, or have been asked to be involved with ExecSG Team and therefore do not speak for them. I also do not know what they are working on except for news snippets of information that come my way from time to time.

    Quote:

    You guys (Trevor, Matthew & Steven, plus whoever else might be involved)


    Bundling us together is maybe why you and others are confused and asking for clarification.


    Ok, fine. Considering that the communication coming from other parties involves X5000, it is quite possible to assume that you should be at least somehow working together on this. As it is now (from outsider's point of view) it sure looks like some important internal communication is missing, and thus has resulted in:

    1. Bigfoot being withheld important information and his offer to help being ignored, resulting in well founded fears of some disastrous changes being done to the firmware that may result in future problems
    2. Mixed public signals from number of parties (more or less) involved.

    Quote:

    Quote:

    So there is something being beta tested that is supposed to be released. How come bigfoot is totally unaware what this new firmware does?


    I have not been give access or ever used this new third-party firmware so I am unaware also. I presume that SSolie will distribute it to their group of beta testers. I am seeking clarification now. As I mentioned before, official A-EON X5000 firmware is maintained by BigFoot unless he chooses otherwise.


    Thanks, clarity would be great in this matter, indeed.
  • »29.10.20 - 16:58
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    amigakit
    Posts: 41 from 2005/8/24
    Quote:

    Ok, fine. Considering that the communication coming from other parties involves X5000, it is quite possible to assume that you should be at least somehow working together on this.


    Sure, I can see how it could be assumed the case, but it is not.

    I have suggested to the ExecSG team that they send their update information and other relevant files to BigFoot for review. We do not want it having any unintended adverse effects on the MorphOS Kernel if any of the changes are eventually put into the official firmware.
    www.amigakit.com - Amiga store
  • »29.10.20 - 17:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Stevo
    Posts: 849 from 2004/1/24
    From: #AmigaZeux
    ---
    http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/logs/its_only_football.txt
  • »29.10.20 - 17:17
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 394 from 2013/5/29
    Im totally lost in this mess.
    ExecNG, that is a vital part of AOS4 is done from people that seems dont know much about the company doing the OS, with people making firmwares that nobody needs...
    A lot of people, companies and work but with no communication.

    Sorry but all this is so weird from an outside view that yes...Im lost.
    PowerMac G5 - PowerBook G4 - MacMini with MorphOS. Amiga 1200/060 AmigaOS 3.x
  • »29.10.20 - 17:49
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 548 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    We're hitting confusion levels that shouldn't even be possible.
    This is just like television, only you can see much further.
  • »29.10.20 - 18:19
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 76 from 2019/11/1
    I prefer this kind of communication to no communication.
    In the end it's all quite clear, and what emerge is once again a blackout in communication among parts, or better, no communication.

    Anyway if there'll ever be a next time where Mark will offer himself to build a new version of x5k firmware, obviously explaining he about what would be addressed, IMHO could be better accept his help and work as a team, at least on this goal :-)

    Things seems going on on both AOS4 nd MOS sides, and this is another good reason to think positive for all amiga users.

    [ Edited by Flash 29.10.2020 - 21:13 ]
  • »29.10.20 - 20:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    kickstart
    Posts: 227 from 2009/4/28
    From: Land of Santa
    These kind of problems makes mistrust in OS4 team even more, meanwhile MorphOS team works in silent without any kind of "awesome feature announces" that never arrive.
  • »29.10.20 - 21:02
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 781 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    kickstart wrote:
    These kind of problems makes mistrust in OS4 team even more, meanwhile MorphOS team works in silent without any kind of "awesome feature announces" that never arrive.


    To be fair, I don't think there is an OS4 team any more, just a bunch of volunteers completely unfamiliar with low level coding landed with a chunk of code that's probably not written to a standard where it can be easily maintained by anyone but its original coders.
  • »29.10.20 - 21:51
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