How to run MorphOS on unsupported G5 PCIe
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2629 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    This will be hard to fix unless we have the exact same card as you do. You might want to try a different card.
  • »12.03.22 - 20:12
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    cip060
    Posts: 63 from 2010/7/30
    How come the screen at boot with imac g5 20 isight does not appear, it displays a black screen and then loads the system
    will the display of a picture at boot on IMAC be corrected?
  • »12.03.22 - 21:30
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 245 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Hello!

    I upgraded to MorphOS 3.16 on my Powermac G5 Quad.
    This one is still unsupported, but because almost all working, so I have MorpOS registered.
    New Wayfarer is excellent, thanks! Youtube videos are fast, CPU utilization is 30-40% with mobile spoofing.

    But MOS 3.16 not operate correctly with fans. My G5 overheating, CPU upto 75°C and fans are still on low RPM.
    It is not HW issue, with MacOSX and linux it works normally - they increase RPM when temperature rises above cca 53°C. Also previous versions of MorphOS worked fine here.

    Do you have similar issues? Or please do you have some advice? Maybe something like iMacFanCtrl for Powermac helps.
    AmigaOS: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »01.04.22 - 08:29
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Zetec-s
    Posts: 178 from 2008/7/10
    From: Cheshire, UK
    I haven’t upgraded my Quad yet to 3.16 but I might try running it off the update first and see how the fans behave.

    I’ve upgraded my PowerBook and MacMini and they are both fine, so wasn’t expecting any issues.
    PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5Ghz/2GB MorphOS 3.17 Registered
    Powerbook 1.67Ghz/1.5GB MorphOS 3.17 Registered
    MacMini 1.5Ghz/1GB MorphOS 3.17 Registered
    Efika 5200B 400Mhz/128MB MorphOS 2.3 Registered
  • »02.04.22 - 14:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 245 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    Zetec-s wrote:
    I haven’t upgraded my Quad yet to 3.16 but I might try running it off the update first and see how the fans behave.


    I tried MOS 3.15 and 3.14 booted from USB and all is the same - fans stays on low RPM, while CPU temp rises above 70°C.

    According to cyfm, Mac Mini fans are controlled with uPMU controller automatically, without management from MorphOS.
    When I see Powermac G5 diagram, it looks like the fans are controlled via SMU (System Management Unit).
    Are MorphOS involved here with control or not and all is automatic ?

    And is it useful to reset the SMU?

    Because temperature regulation for me now works with MacOSX and not works with MorphOS. And worked for me with MorphOS a year before or so.
    It is strange.
    AmigaOS: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »19.04.22 - 13:08
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  • K-L
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    K-L
    Posts: 41 from 2020/11/17
    From: Lyon, France
    It's normal behaviour.

    MorphOS doesn't use NAP with the G5. Your CPU idles at its full speed frequency.

    It has already been discussed on this forum.

    MacOS knows how to change speed frequency of the G5, MorphOS doesn't.

    For example, my G5 2,7 Ghz (and Beworld's too) is regulated at 86°C with fans at normal speed. When the temperature gets higher, fans ramp up to maintain 86°C.

    This is the same under MacOS by the way : fans will ramp up loud if speed geths higher than 86°C on my 2,7Ghz G5 (fans are not controlled by the OS but by the hardware). The OS only controls the frequency of the CPU (and only MacOS does this, not MorphOS). It is called NAP.

    BTW, 75°C is not overheating for you G5 (otherwise, the system would shut down automatically), the G5 is known to get hot.
    PowerMac G5 2,7 Ghz / Radeon 9650 / MorphOS 3.15
    AmigaOne X1000 (unused ATM)
  • »19.04.22 - 20:45
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 245 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    K-L wrote:
    It's normal behaviour.

    MorphOS doesn't use NAP with the G5. Your CPU idles at its full speed frequency.

    It has already been discussed on this forum.

    MacOS knows how to change speed frequency of the G5, MorphOS doesn't.

    For example, my G5 2,7 Ghz (and Beworld's too) is regulated at 86°C with fans at normal speed. When the temperature gets higher, fans ramp up to maintain 86°C.

    This is the same under MacOS by the way : fans will ramp up loud if speed geths higher than 86°C on my 2,7Ghz G5 (fans are not controlled by the OS but by the hardware). The OS only controls the frequency of the CPU (and only MacOS does this, not MorphOS). It is called NAP.




    Thanks for explanation. But I am afraid, I am in slightly other situation.

    Your Powermac is PCI-X A1047 type with fans controlled with PMU.
    Mine Powermac is PCIe A1177 type, controlled with SMU.
    There can be differences between PMU and SMU, but I don't know what.

    My PMac (tested last week) under MacOSX increase fans speed when CPU temp rises above cca 53°C.
    In MorphOS (at least 3.14-3.16 tested) temperature rises above 75°C and fans still on low RPM.
    Yes of course, I can test if fans starts above 80°C, but is not normal situation.
    At least this refutes the theory that only PMU / SMU controls the temperature. Pmac with MacOS behaves other way, it means at least something has to be different in OSes temperature/fan control or setup.

    Second example - my friend's Powermac G5 Dual core (i.e. A1177 like mine) has under MorphOS 3.16 temperature 50°C and then fans rises RPM. This is the same behavior like mine PMac under MacOSX.

    Last year I have also lower temperature with proper fan control. Unfortunatelly I have no screenshot or record, so I cannot proof this. Only remember it ;-)

    Maybe there is no problem with MorphOS, but maybe there is something in OF what has to be correctly setup before MorphOS start, who knows.


    Quote:


    BTW, 75°C is not overheating for you G5 (otherwise, the system would shut down automatically), the G5 is known to get hot.

    I know, this type of CPU have 105°C max temperature. But your 86°C is too much for long-time using from my point of view.



    [ Edited by sailor 20.04.2022 - 10:36 ]
    AmigaOS: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »20.04.22 - 07:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 245 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    this is from older linux kconfig diff:

    Code:
    +config WINDFARM_PM112
    + tristate "Support for thermal management on PowerMac11,2"
    + depends on WINDFARM && I2C && PMAC_SMU
    + select I2C_PMAC_SMU
    + help
    + This driver provides thermal control for the PowerMac11,2
    + which are the recent dual and quad G5 machines using the
    + 970MP dual-core processor.


    It means that linux have thermal control of Powermac A1177 inside OS.
    So or linux (and MacOSX) controls the fans, or controls the SMU which do it independently.

    And maybe MorphOS lack this direct control, so SMU behaves diferently.
    AmigaOS: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »20.04.22 - 09:12
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 476 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    sailor schrieb:

    It means that linux have thermal control of Powermac A1177 inside OS.
    So or linux (and MacOSX) controls the fans, or controls the SMU which do it independently.

    And maybe MorphOS lack this direct control, so SMU behaves differently.


    I'm not sure what point you are trying to prove here but it is known that MorphOS lacks software thermal control for PowerMac11,2. That is last but not least one reason - next to the missing onboard networking support - why its considered "unsupported" after all.
    The only thing that the SMU does is run the fans at full speed once the system crashes or is unresponsive.
    I already mentioned in the Mac mini thermal sensor related thread that the Mac mini is the only machine in the range of MorphOS Apple PPC hardware that controls the fans without active software control but uses its microcontroller to deal with it.
    The only thing that can be done via Apple's Service Diagnostic disc is thermal calibration of the fans to its default speeds on startup.
  • »20.04.22 - 09:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 245 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    cyfm wrote:
    I'm not sure what point you are trying to prove here but it is known that MorphOS lacks software thermal control for PowerMac11,2. That is last but not least one reason - next to the missing onboard networking support - why its considered "unsupported" after all.
    The only thing that the SMU does is run the fans at full speed once the system crashes or is unresponsive.
    I already mentioned in the Mac mini thermal sensor related thread that the Mac mini is the only machine in the range of MorphOS Apple PPC hardware that controls the fans without active software control but uses its microcontroller to deal with it.
    The only thing that can be done via Apple's Service Diagnostic disc is thermal calibration of the fans to its default speeds on startup.



    Yes I know, this PMac is unsupported. Nevertheless I have it registered, becouse all worked fine up to now.
    The point I want to solve is, that temperature control worked for me fine with MorphOS last several years and not works this year (I mentioned it after upgrade to MOS 3.16, but it doesn't work with 3.15 and 3.14, tested via USB live iso)
    I just asking for help.

    Also my friend's dual core have CPU temp regulated to 50-60°C with MorphOS.
    So I want to find out, what is different with my PMac, and what can be the clue.

    Thanks for tip, thermal callibration can helps. I will try.
    In meantine I found interesting article from Cameron Kaiser
    Long life computing where he also recommends calibration.


    [ Edited by sailor 20.04.2022 - 12:19 ]
    AmigaOS: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »20.04.22 - 10:17
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 10 from 2016/2/19
    G5 Quad built in LAN isnt supported but I have not seen anyone say the WiFi is or is not supported? I ASSUME it is not since people talking about wanting PCIE LAN cards installed.

    BUT, the MOS support list includes ASIX USB-LAN adapters, so would this work? If I can make that work I can leave FX4500 for OSX & Linux and PC ATI X1950 GT for MOS as both are dual slots cards and would mean no space for a PCIE LAN card. This would also avoid needing to find a single slot GPU (often slower)
  • »05.05.22 - 10:26
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1161 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Methanoid wrote:
    G5 Quad built in LAN isnt supported but I have not seen anyone say the WiFi is or is not supported? I ASSUME it is not since people talking about wanting PCIE LAN cards installed.



    G5 Quad could use the same internal AirPort Extreme card (A1027) as previous G5 Power Macs (more on that later).

    But first, there's one thing you should know: The PCIe G5 is meant to use the same AirPort Extreme/Bluetooth combo card (A1127) as Mac Mini or (late) G4 PowerBooks/iBooks (it's of course supported my MorphOS). It should sit on a proprietary 'Runway' card that fits into the AirPort slot just north of the memory banks (and the compatible AirPort/Bluetooth antennas cables are hanging next to the slot).

    This card, however (I mean the 'Runway'), is very hard to get and pricey as hell. So instead of using it you might just plug in the (also supported by MorphOS) A1027 and it will work. But neither of the built-in antennas will fit into the card connector - that means you need an additional antenna to make the card work for you. The cable should have a "MC card" (male) plug type if that helps.
  • »05.05.22 - 11:02
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 451 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Methanoid schrieb:
    G5 Quad built in LAN isnt supported but I have not seen anyone say the WiFi is or is not supported? I ASSUME it is not since people talking about wanting PCIE LAN cards installed.

    BUT, the MOS support list includes ASIX USB-LAN adapters, so would this work? [...]

    Thanks for pointing out! I completely missed that some kind of USB-LAN with ASIX chipset are supported. Got in a Realtek card too, but as you said this decreases the choices for the 2nd MorphOS compatible AMD/ATI card.

    For this reason it would be nice if the G5 PCIe ethernet NIC [tg3] gets supported. Meanwhile I would be interesed too whether there are USB-LAN adapters with this ASIX chipset and whether they work on a G5?
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.17 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.1]
  • »05.05.22 - 12:58
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 10 from 2016/2/19
    Thanks, my G5 Quad already has an Airport card (can't identify it though as no model numbers etc I can make out) so unless that one works, I'd be needing a USB-LAN adapter...

    Don't fancy hacking another one instead of existing one
  • »05.05.22 - 12:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> the MOS support list includes ASIX USB-LAN adapters,
    >> so would this work?

    > Thanks for pointing out! I completely missed that some
    > kind of USB-LAN with ASIX chipset are supported.

    It's also other chipsets. Seems you missed my comment I wrote 1½ hours before yours 1⅓ years ago ;-)
  • »05.05.22 - 13:22
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 476 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    I wouldn't recommend any of the ASIX chipset USB adapters, better get a supported PCIe eth card instead.
    Personally, I never managed to get any of those working and I'm not even sure if anyone else ever managed to ....
    I might look into adding support for the G5 PCIe onboard NIC at some point but not sure yet if its support is ever going to materialize.
  • »05.05.22 - 14:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I wouldn't recommend any of the ASIX chipset USB adapters [...].
    > Personally, I never managed to get any of those working and I'm
    > not even sure if anyone else ever managed to ....

    What has been reported to work with MorphOS is the Belkin F5D5050 based on the ADM8511 (Pegasus II) chipset. Problem is that it has to be v1 of the adapter as v2 has been reported as non-working.
  • »05.05.22 - 19:30
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 10 from 2016/2/19
    @cyfm if you can get Onboard LAN working you'll be making lots of happy G5 PCIE owners. I sold my old 2.3DC last week and the buyer said he was gonna go MorphOS and we got chatting. He mentioned network cards and I have plenty of spare Realtek LAN cards but its losing a slot that worries me!
  • »05.05.22 - 20:25
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 451 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    @Andreas_Wolf You are correct - another one of the comment's I missed (or read over). ;-)

    @cyfm Ok, thanks for pointing out. Yes, G5 PCIe onboard NIC support would be nice but I know it's kinda luxury problem. Benefit would be less hassle with extra hardware (the 1st Realtek NIC I bought did work on Linux but not on MorphOS) and being able to put in a 'bigger' Radeon as 2nd card.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.17 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.1]
  • »06.05.22 - 13:08
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