New SDK with Objective-C support?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 385 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Hi.

    I'm assuming that a new SDK will be released to work with Objective-C?
    Or should that work with the 3.10 SDK already combined with MorphOS 3.10?


    Manfred
  • »26.03.18 - 21:27
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    I am hoping to release the 3.12 SDK within a month or two. The ObjC will be unavailable to 3rd party programmers till then.

    [ Edited by jacadcaps 26.03.2018 - 18:58 ]
  • »26.03.18 - 23:57
    Profile Visit Website
  • Just looking around
    Alexco
    Posts: 13 from 2015/5/16
    Does the SDK only contain the Foundation classes or also GUI bindings with nib file support?
  • »27.03.18 - 15:59
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Alexco wrote:
    Does the SDK only contain the Foundation classes or also GUI bindings with nib file support?



    There is no nib support since there's no Cocoa.

    We'll publish an article on this soon which I think will answer most questions.
  • »27.03.18 - 17:36
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    eliot
    Posts: 481 from 2004/4/15
    Really cool. I like Objective C.
    regards
    eliot
  • »27.03.18 - 18:02
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1050 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Is the eventual goal to replace GCC with Clang?
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »27.03.18 - 19:32
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Is the eventual goal to replace GCC with Clang?


    For entire MorphOS you mean? That sounds unlikely. We're currently using gcc 2, 4, 5, 6 and clang to build MorphOS :) It'd be a nightmare to port everything...
  • »27.03.18 - 20:43
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1050 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Is the eventual goal to replace GCC with Clang?


    For entire MorphOS you mean? That sounds unlikely. We're currently using gcc 2, 4, 5, 6 and clang to build MorphOS :) It'd be a nightmare to port everything...


    Yeah that's what I meant and it most likely being a nightmare was why I asked. :)

    Does a MorphOS port of Clang exist behind closed doors now or only a cross compiler?
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »27.03.18 - 21:02
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Does a MorphOS port of Clang exist behind closed doors now or only a cross compiler?



    We have both variants. Will be included in the next SDK.
  • »27.03.18 - 23:13
    Profile Visit Website
  • MorphOS Developer
    CISC
    Posts: 617 from 2005/8/27
    From: the land with ...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    We're currently using gcc 2, 4, 5, 6 and clang to build MorphOS :)


    We could probably have let gcc4 die a long time ago though, I'm guessing it's mainly due to "lazyness" that we still have things built with it. :)


    - CISC
  • »28.03.18 - 01:29
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    eliot
    Posts: 481 from 2004/4/15
    Will there also be more features supported for C++ 11 like threading?
    regards
    eliot
  • »28.03.18 - 06:18
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    eliot wrote:
    Will there also be more features supported for C++ 11 like threading?


    We generally add these things as we go along (as in, when something we're doing requires it). Threading should be supported, at least to a degree, if I remember right.
  • »28.03.18 - 14:09
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1050 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Does a MorphOS port of Clang exist behind closed doors now or only a cross compiler?



    We have both variants. Will be included in the next SDK.


    Great news, I look forward to it. Thanks. :)
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »28.03.18 - 14:43
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 283 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    May be a little bit off-topic but gcc 7 behaves really well on ppc. I can tell that from running/building Gentoo Linux with it. Even Firefox got much less bitchy. ;-)

    Seems the new register allocator gcc 7 uses for ppc is some good: https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-7/changes.html
    Talos II Secure Workstation. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.11 / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »28.03.18 - 16:05
    Profile
  • Just looking around
    Alexco
    Posts: 13 from 2015/5/16
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:

    There is no nib support since there's no Cocoa.

    We'll publish an article on this soon which I think will answer most questions.


    Nib files are not Cocoa. GNUstep also uses nib in Project Builder.
    But the article answers everything :-)
  • »30.03.18 - 09:11
    Profile
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1135 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Just posting the link to the article here as a reference for people who find this discussion but might miss the news post:

    morphos-team.net/guide/objective-c
  • »30.03.18 - 11:14
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 385 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Is there support for XCTest? Or the older SenTestingKit?


    Manfred
  • »30.03.18 - 13:35
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    Is there support for XCTest? Or the older SenTestingKit?


    Manfred


    Nope. Maybe in the future...
  • »30.03.18 - 14:42
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 385 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    Is there support for XCTest? Or the older SenTestingKit?


    Manfred


    Nope. Maybe in the future...


    So you're developing Iris without unit tests?
  • »30.03.18 - 15:38
    Profile
  • MDW
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    MDW
    Posts: 236 from 2003/7/26
    From: Wroclaw/Poland
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    So you're developing Iris without unit tests?

    Show me project for MorphOS/AmigaOS which is developing with unit tests. :)

    I think we have more important issues than no unit tests. Jaca is one man, not a corpo dev-team. :)
  • »30.03.18 - 16:26
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 385 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    MDW wrote:
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    So you're developing Iris without unit tests?

    Show me project for MorphOS/AmigaOS which is developing with unit tests. :)

    I think we have more important issues than no unit tests. Jaca is one man, not a corpo dev-team. :)


    That's unfortunately the usual thinking.
    We're in the 21st century.

    It's a common misconception to think that developing test driven takes more time than without.
    On the contrary. In the big scheme you safe yourself a lot of time and grey hair. It gives you confidence that your code still works after you have done major refactorings.
    Because if you have a good coverage you click a button and 5, 10 or 15 minutes later you know if you can release or not.
    Otherwise how much time do you spent going through all the manual tests again and again and again. What a pain.
    Test driven development is done (or not done) by individuals, small teams and large teams. The number of people involved is irrelevant.


    Porting XCTest would have been one of the first things I had done.

    And yes, unit tests are not seen often in Amiga world.
    Probably because the tooling is not convenient enough. Or no one actually knows how to do it. I don't know.
    But MorphOS is powerful enough to support that. And in XCTest there is a nice unit test framework.
    When the SDK is there I'd have a look at porting it.

    [ Edited by asrael22 30.03.2018 - 17:40 ]
  • »30.03.18 - 16:33
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 432 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    Quote:

    asrael22 schrieb:
    It's a common misconception to think that developing test driven takes more time than without.
    On the contrary. In the big scheme you safe yourself a lot of time and grey hair. It gives you confidence that your code still works after you have done major refactorings.


    full ack!
    This is not native software but even the SGML documentation is validated :-)
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · iMac G5 12,1
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.11
  • »30.03.18 - 19:33
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    I actually do have some test apps (for Iris functionality testing) but as a whole I am not writing unit tests since these are boring :)
    This is done in my spare time when I want to relax and maintaining unit tests is not relaxing for me.
  • »30.03.18 - 20:09
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 385 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    I actually do have some test apps (for Iris functionality testing) but as a whole I am not writing unit tests since these are boring :)
    This is done in my spare time when I want to relax and maintaining unit tests is not relaxing for me.


    Yeah, people are different.
    I find great joy starting with writing tests on a small unit and see how gradually the code builds up. :)
    It's also that the structure of your code is different when you write unit tests. Code that must be testable must be structured differently.
    But even if you do this in your spare time, you want to produce value for users and for yourself.
  • »30.03.18 - 20:38
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1789 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    I find great joy starting with writing tests on a small unit and see how gradually the code builds up. :)



    The ob.framework does have unit tests by the way - mostly due to the fact that when I was buildig it there were no real apps to test this. With mui.framework I was actually writing the new LogTool application in parallel to see if the ideas make sense...
  • »31.03.18 - 01:28
    Profile Visit Website