WINE on Linux, viable replacement for Windows?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2456 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    I upgraded both my 2.4GHz i7 laptop, and my 3.4GHz i5 desktop, from 8gb of RAM to 16gb RAM, a couple days ago, because, believe it or not, I was running into low memory warnings occasionally, while only running Firefox with 2 or 3 tabs open, and one MMO game, on Windows10 Home Edition.

    It is hard for me to understand how Windows10, Firefox, and one 5 year old game that has "Minimum System Requirements" as follows:

    Windows XP Service Pack 2 or better.
    Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz, Core i3, AMD Athlon 64 X2, or better.
    2 GB RAM.
    NVIDIA GeForce 7800 or better (256MB of video RAM and shader model 3.0 or better)
    25 GB available HDD space.
    Broadband Internet connection.
    Keyboard and mouse

    Not a very demanding game by today's standards. The website(s) I generally have displayed while playing the game have no videos running, no ads, no animation other than a clock countdown counter.

    The apparent bloat of Windows10 Home Edition (with Cortana turned off, and as many other services I could figure out to turn off without creating other problems), has me thinking about switching to Linux and WINE, to run the few Windows only software applications and games that I use often. Can any of you Linux users here give me advice about what to expect using WINE to run my few Windows only games and CAD software? Which lightweight Linux distro should I check into getting, to run WINE on?

    Here are my laptop specs in full:

    Intel Core i7 3630QM CPU @2.4GHz (8 cores), 16gb RAM, 64bit Windows10 Home Edition, Crucial CT250MX200SSD3 (200gb 2.5-inch SSD), TS128GSSD370S (128gb mSATA), WDC WD10JPVX-75JC3T0 (1tb hdd), Nvidia GeForce GT 650M discreet video card, Intel HD Graphics 4000, Blu-Ray R/W Optical drive, Intel Centrino Wireless-N2330 & Realtek PCIe FE Family Ethernet Controller.

    Obviously, I would only want a Linux distro that fully support all of the hardware included in my laptop. I am less concerned about finding a Linux distro that support my desktop hardware. I am very concerned about how well my Windows only software runs on WINE. Switching to Linux with WINE would be a huge step for me, as I have only toyed with it a couple of times, and don't understand it at all, so I would need to begin basically from square ONE, in learning all about how Linux works. Ideally, I would prefer to install a minimal Linux kernel and drivers, with AmigaOS3.x Workbench (or DOPUS Magellan) as my workspace, like the ALICE laptop does, but I don't want to downgrade to an i3 CPU, and doubt that the ALICE laptop has 16gb of RAM and 2 hdd bays, plus my mSATA slot and a dedicated/discreet graphics card.

    Sorry for such a long post, please give me your Linux wisdom and advice.

    [ Edited by amigadave 14.09.2017 - 11:33 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »14.09.17 - 19:32
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    David, I can't advise you on Linux, because I'm a relative novice with that OS, but your results with Windows surprise me.
    My i7 laptop is lower end than yours, with 1/4 the memory and no discreet graphics, but I don't run into any real problems until I have more than a dozen tabs open.
    I'm running Win10 professional, but I don't think that is significant different than Home.
    I do have one desktop that I still have Win7 and Win10 on, because frankly I like Aero and Win7 doesn't have Cortana (which I can't get rid of completely to save my life).

    But I can't see Linux being that much better a performer as it's gotten pretty bloated too.

    It's a pity that there aren't any really tight, efficient OS' running on X64 systems.
    While we talk about porting MorphOS to that platform, even once that happens it will still be a hobbyist's oriented operating system.

    I'm still convinced that a good commercial OS could be created around a micro kernel that would outperform currently available systems, but doubt that will ever happen.

    With all the horsepower we have available in today's hardware, we ought to be getting better performance.



    [ Edited by Jim 14.09.2017 - 14:53 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.09.17 - 19:53
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1103 from 2003/6/17
    Have you thought about running Linux and then VirtualBox with Windows 7 in it? Then run your CAD software, MMO etc.

    My primary OS is Debian, servers run CentOS. I've used SuSE, Ubuntu, Mint etc..etc.
  • »15.09.17 - 03:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    I would definitely prefer Linux over Windows. If there wouldn't be macOS.

    However, you can have a look at CrossOver:
    https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility

    It's a commercial version of Wine with support. It's not only that they want money, they also deliver back a lot of patches to the Wine sources.
    IMO it's worth a try. Many setup tasks are just a lot easier than with plain Wine.
    There is also a compatibility database that shows you what works and what not. And if it works, how good it works.


    Manfred
  • »15.09.17 - 07:50
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    mt12345
    Posts: 72 from 2011/4/4
    From: Europe
    debian linux distro + amikit + virtualbox + windows 7 lite.
    don't forget to enable VT support in BIOS.
    run virtualbox in seamless mode so you dont see windows' desktop.

    ('windows 7 ultimate sp1 64 bit lite v9 by nil' - torrent search).
    (debian - sparkylinux,siduction,bunsenlabs,antix. if you want ultra minimum: linuxbbq-bork-amd64)
    it's much easier to install minimal linux and remove unneeded drivers than installing linux from scratch
    sparkylinux minimal-GUI and minimal-CLI

    if you wat to try wine, there is ChaletOS, ubuntu-based distro with wine and playonlinux preinstalled do you can test it in 'live' session from usb pendrive.
    but first you may want to check if your software is supported by wine:

    playonlinux
    wine database

    (are you sure this is correct forum?)
  • »15.09.17 - 13:25
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    You do have the memory needed to run all these VM solutions, but they will further degrade the performance of your system.
    And Linux video card performance will be below Windows.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.09.17 - 13:36
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 888 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    It's a pity that there aren't any really tight, efficient OS' running on X64 systems.



    MorphOS++ ;)

    https://download.haiku-os.org/nightly-images/x86_64/current-anyboot
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »15.09.17 - 19:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 888 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    @Dave,

    Don't mess around with the "lightweight" distros if you don't have experience with Linux.

    My kids all have Linux Mint on their machines and they use it with no problems. Some have beasts with lots of RAM and my youngest has a 10yr old netbook with Mint XFCE edition.

    Grab yourself a copy of Mint 18.2 Cinnamon Desktop edition for 64bit machines and give it a whirl. Then if you want to use WINE I recommend getting Crossover as it's simpler to use and comes with support.

    http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3289
    https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-linux
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »15.09.17 - 19:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2456 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    @Dave,

    Don't mess around with the "lightweight" distros if you don't have experience with Linux.

    My kids all have Linux Mint on their machines and they use it with no problems. Some have beasts with lots of RAM and my youngest has a 10yr old netbook with Mint XFCE edition.

    Grab yourself a copy of Mint 18.2 Cinnamon Desktop edition for 64bit machines and give it a whirl. Then if you want to use WINE I recommend getting Crossover as it's simpler to use and comes with support.

    http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3289
    https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-linux


    Thanks everyone for the advice. I might try to follow Intuition's advice first, and see how it performs. Like Jim wrote, I don't think that running any Linux, plus a virtual machine with Windows7, or Windows10 running inside the VM, would solve any of my disappointments or problems. Before running Windows10 (or 7) in any VM, I would try to further "slim down" Windows itself, to get more acceptable performance, as I am sure that I don't have either of my Windows systems set up the most optimal way for best performance. I just don't know how to do that, without messing something up in the Registry, or elsewhere.

    What delays me from doing anything, is the loathing of having to spend nearly a whole day (or more), trying to re-install Windows10 and set up all my stuff like I have it now. I already tried that once on my laptop, and ended up with a Windows10 installation on my SSD that is unusable, so I now have to use F12 during every boot, to choose my old hdd Windows10 install. I can't express enough how much I dislike (hate) Windows, but I also don't like the complexity of Linux and MacOSX much better.

    Maybe I'll look again to see if my ASRock Z77 Extreme 4 mobo, & Radeon 7800 series GPU, are better supported (or supported at all), to make my system into a Hackintosh, then try Crossover on MacOSX. If not, I'll probably try Linux Mint v18.2 Cinnamon desktop and Crossover, as Intuition suggests.

    I'm guessing that adding AmigaOS3.x via emulation (AmiKit X) doesn't significantly degrade performance, when a Linux program is started, or while running a Windows program/game via WINE, so I'll probably look at buying AmiKit X and installing it as well. At least that will give me the appearance of a desktop I like, and some functionality that I understand.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »16.09.17 - 22:59
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    mt12345
    Posts: 72 from 2011/4/4
    From: Europe
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Before running Windows10 (or 7) in any VM, I would try to further "slim down" Windows itself, to get more acceptable performance, as I am sure that I don't have either of my Windows systems set up the most optimal way for best performance.


    I've been happily running windows 7 'lite' mentioned above on Core2 Duo laptops for couple of years.
    Recently I got powerful i5 machine where I installed full version of windows 7 pro.
    It was so slow that I thought the hard drive is faulty. I couldn't stand it. After few days I installed 'lite' version. What a relief.

    Some time ago I tried few 'light' windows 10 installs which I tried to further optimise, disable cortana etc. but apart from size on disk I dont see the difference in performance.
  • »19.09.17 - 01:41
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    mt12345
    Posts: 72 from 2011/4/4
    From: Europe
    Just install any popular linux distro, ubuntu, mint, whatever + latest wine and try to run your games and CAD applications. If it works fine then you can start trimming down linux or try something minimal.
  • »19.09.17 - 01:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2456 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    mt12345 wrote:
    Just install any popular linux distro, ubuntu, mint, whatever + latest wine and try to run your games and CAD applications. If it works fine then you can start trimming down linux or try something minimal.



    Thanks again for the advice.

    I checked the WINE compatibility database site you provided the link for and found that the Windows game I want to continue running is listed in the "Gold" section, so it should run well, with slight configuration changes. The CAD software I use has less than 10 tests on WINE and the results vary from Platinum to Garbage, with all of the tests being pretty old, using old versions of the CAD software, as well as using old versions of WINE. I'll just have to test it out myself, to see if it works or not. The CAD software I could run via Windows10 running in a VM, but the game probably would slow down too noticeably in a VM, unless I am mistaken about how much a VM running on Linux degrades the performance of a program, when compared to running Windows natively on the same hardware.

    I'm still postponing the date when I'll try to choose which Linux to use (probably Mint), and do a final "backup" of my current system, before I attempt a clean install. I don't even want to think of how many hours (days) it will take me to reformat, partition, and install Linux and WINE, then install my antivirus software & Firefox and set up all my bookmarks and enter all my passwords. Then even more time to install my software and games. At least with Linux, I will feel safer than I currently do with Windows10. I am thinking that I'll download everything from scratch after the install is complete, just in case I have any infected files that aren't currently being detected by my antivirus software. That adds a huge amount of time to the task, because I have a slow ISP, but if I am going to go through all of this trouble to switch to Linux, and re-install Windows10 on another drive or partition to use occasionally in a multi-boot system, I should do it right, so I can be certain that I am not carrying any infected files from my existing installation to the new one.

    I also looked at some Hackintosh sites today, to see how compatible my hardware is, and I could probably set up a triple or quadruple boot system, and include MacOSX as well. The NVidia m650GT 2gb discrete video card in my laptop is not supported for use as a "Hackintosh", but most people running the model laptop I have as a Hackintosh report it runs well using the Intel HD graphics built into the 3rd generation i7 CPU(I think the graphics part is called Intel HD4000).

    I seriously doubt that I will bother taking all the time and trouble to install more than 2 OSes, unless I count AmigaOS3.x under emulation of WinUAE, or EUAE, as the 3rd OS. I'll probably set up a dual boot Windows10 & MacOSX system, or install Linux & WINE, and call it good.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »19.09.17 - 04:41
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    mt12345
    Posts: 72 from 2011/4/4
    From: Europe
    set up sync in firefox so your bookmarks and passwords will be backed up in windows and automatically restored in linux.
    If you dont trust mozilla, use lastpass instead. If you trust no one, use keepass.
    bookmarks can be exported to html file.

    you dont need antivirus when running wine.
  • »19.09.17 - 05:37
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    For password synching I would propose a password manager like 1Password or similar. Maybe one that is available on Linux, too, if you choose Linux.
    Those tools usually can store more stuff than passwords. You can pretty much put anything security related in there.
    It will sync via DropBox or iCloud, or WiFi with a lot of devices, including mobile ones.
    Then, like 1Password, those tools provide browser plugins.


    Manfred
  • »19.09.17 - 08:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > AmigaOS3.x under emulation of WinUAE, or EUAE

    On Linux or macOS you should certainly resort to FS-UAE instead of E-UAE. Or if you install WINE anyway, you could as well run WinUAE on Linux or macOS.
  • »19.09.17 - 10:03
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > AmigaOS3.x under emulation of WinUAE, or EUAE

    On Linux or macOS you should certainly resort to FS-UAE instead of E-UAE. Or if you install WINE anyway, you could as well run WinUAE on Linux or macOS.


    In fact AmiKit X for Mac actually uses WinUAE on Wine.
  • »19.09.17 - 10:49
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