The wait for 3.10 :(
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    There is no real market for MorphOS on the X5000.

    Most systems are bought by hardcore OS4 fans and most of them will never (at least officially) even try MorphOS on that system.


    Is this a implication that the X5000 port isn't going to be happening?
  • »02.08.17 - 09:00
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1490 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    I have to agree that the fact that there's no official updates is bad given the amount of time that has passed since the last release. Nobody really expected it would take this long to push 3.10 out.
  • »02.08.17 - 12:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 178 from 2012/4/28
    The new version 3.10 has fixed the problems with the PowerBook G4 like crashed for example running OWB, and graphic card drivers that sometimes my screen has vertical stripes and I have do a reboot?
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 + Update 6. K.O.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.9
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.9
  • »02.08.17 - 13:08
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4221 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Pgovotsos wrote:
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    There is no real market for MorphOS on the X5000.

    Most systems are bought by hardcore OS4 fans and most of them will never (at least officially) even try MorphOS on that system.


    Is this a implication that the X5000 port isn't going to be happening?


    I'm not sure WHAT geit means.
    At least one MorphOS developer owns already an X5000 (specifically Mark Olsen).

    I'm buying an X5000, and the only reason I haven't done so so far is I'm unsure if I should wait for the X5000/40 model.

    Look, a port of MorphOS for the X5000 has been announced, so its GOING to happen.

    Opinion of the size of the market for the port are just that, opinions, and not particularly important to the issue.
    After all, how many users did we pick up with the SAM460 port (a system that is no longer available AND doesn't have adequate expansion to allow the concurrent use of a PCI SATA controller card with a PCI sound card)?

    [ Edited by Jim 02.08.2017 - 14:41 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.08.17 - 19:40
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2406 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Pgovotsos wrote:
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    There is no real market for MorphOS on the X5000.

    Most systems are bought by hardcore OS4 fans and most of them will never (at least officially) even try MorphOS on that system.


    Is this a implication that the X5000 port isn't going to be happening?


    I'm not sure WHAT geit means.


    It means just what he said, that Jim (should he *ever* buy an X5000) and the five or so other X5000 owners that might *actually purchase* MorphOS, is not really a "market".

    AFAIK, MorphOS has supported the X5000 for a very long time now. This picture is from 11 April 2015, at that time they predicted the port should be finished in October the same year. That's two years ago now. So the support is there, and I'm sure they won't remove it! :-P
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »02.08.17 - 21:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> There is no real market for MorphOS on the X5000.

    >> Is this a implication that the X5000 port isn't going to be happening?

    > [...] After all, how many users did we pick up with the SAM460 port

    Virtually none according to geit. Now, what may that tell us about the coming X5000 port, if anything?

    > a system that [...] doesn't [...] allow the concurrent use of
    > a PCI SATA controller card with a PCI sound card

    True, but Sam460ex has both features onboard and supported by MorphOS. It's Sam460cr specifically that is problematic with MorphOS because of non-support for PCIe-PCI bridges connected to the PCIe x1 slot.
  • »02.08.17 - 21:42
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4221 from 2009/1/28
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    Yeah, I don't know where that "what, its not going to be supported now?" comment came from.
    Have we ever had a promise pulled before (unless you count Qbox ;-))?

    I don't expect that many new users either.
    And someone in the OS4 community got huffy with me recently when I suggested that the port really wasn't intended for them.
    I mean really, are we likely to see any OS4 converts? From the 'real' AmigaOs? ;-)

    The utility I see in the X5000, is for the few of us willing to cough up the money for the upgrade.
    and that price is a significant barrier.

    But I want a better video card, and except for the SAM460, this is the only way I am getting that.

    I actually expect it to perform slight worse than a G5, but it will have PCIe expansion.
    And even if we supported the PCIe G5s, they are only PCIe v1.
    That would limit what cards the G5s could support.

    So, I'm part of the MorphOS market for the X5000, I don't think I'm the only member of that group, but I do think its small.
    And that the market for PCIe G5s would be larger.
    But I've talked myself hoarse arguing for that, and I'm beginning to doubt that it will happen.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.08.17 - 22:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > someone in the OS4 community got huffy with me recently when I suggested
    > that the port really wasn't intended for them.

    The way I read it you got huffy when you were asked "why they are bothering to port this to the X5000" "if MorphOS is not going to support the 7000 series of Radeon cards" ;-)

    > I mean really, are we likely to see any OS4 converts?

    It's not necessarily about converts but about potential users of both OS. I think nobody denies that the vast majority of X5000 systems and Cyrus boards is sold to current OS4 users. And most won't even try MorphOS if this requires changing the graphics card (as discussed 7 months back in another thread).
  • »02.08.17 - 23:31
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    FWIW I have 2 X5000s that will be getting MorphOS installed. I know that 2 doesn't represent a viable market but MorphOS availability was certainly a consideration when I bought them.
  • »03.08.17 - 01:12
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Debaser
    Posts: 129 from 2005/7/12
    From: Syracuse, NY, USA
    I am waiting with my X5000 as well. :)
  • »03.08.17 - 02:57
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2453 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Debaser wrote:
    I am waiting with my X5000 as well. :)


    I'm sure that many AmigaOS4.x users who have already bought an X5000, and several more that will buy one in the future, will at least install MorphOS3.10 to take a look at it and test how well it runs on their X5000 systems, IF (like AW stated) they DON'T have to switch video cards to try it. We will likely get a small handful of users who like MorphOS enough to use it occasionally, but they are also unlikely to "convert" from AmigaOS4.x, to MorphOS, as their primary Amiga-Like NG OS.

    My understanding for the "Why" to support the X5000, is because it should be available as a new system for at least a year or more, while the MorphOS Dev. Team has time to work on the x64 port of MorphOS. The knowledge Mark Olsen is gaining working on the new video card drivers (I assume) will be useful for writing the x64 video card drivers for the same Radeon cards, or similar ones.

    The users outside the Dev. Team, like myself and most of the members posting here, probably don't know how long it will take, or how far along, the Dev. Team is, toward completing the first release of the x64 port of MorphOS, so having support for the X5000 might be good for "morale" of some users, while we wait.

    The market for any NG OS in our community is negligible and probably not the driving force behind any decisions.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.08.17 - 06:11
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1103 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    The 'dir' command should always be faster :-)



    Everyone, dont believe Andreas. This is like the vi vs vim argument. We all know 'ls' is faster and better than 'dir'. ;-)

    Next thing you know, he'll say 'ls' is really a symlink to 'dir'.. LOL

    [ Edited by TheMagicM 03.08.2017 - 06:48 ]
  • »03.08.17 - 12:46
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4221 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ thread

    For the near future, it seems that if OS4 users are using either a Radeon 7750 or R7 250, they will need to change their video cards to install MorphOS 3.10 as Mark's next video driver update will not include GCN support.

    As Linux for the X5000 does not support acceleration for GCN cards, I've ordered a Radeon HD 6870, which is supposed to arrive today.

    As to whether or not OS4 users try MorphOS, frankly I could care less.
    As a rule, I have generally received little but unjustified hostility from the 'real AmigaOS' camp.
    I'll try out their OS when I receive the X5000, but I anticipate sticking with MorphOS and Linux.

    This port will increase the number of platforms that work under both OS' to three, and will give us a common high performance platform that supports PCIe expansion (because lets face it, the performance of the SAM460 is pretty awful).

    We are probably getting an update to the VIA Envy 24HT driver (which will bring this 'in house') as well as a driver for the CMI8738. So we will have some new sound card options.

    I sold my VIA based sound card because I couldn't get Davey's drivers working, but I can find another.

    So, I have 4 GB of DDR3 and an SSD, I'll have the video card today, and I'll purchase the sound card soon (oh, and I have a decent ATX case, silver not black, but so f'ing what - its going to be a MorphOS system anyway).

    I think Geit might be surprised, there are at least a few of us that want to go this way.

    And, outside of the SAM460 users, we'll be the only MorphOS users able to run GCN video cards once they are supported.

    Overall, I think there are a few good reasons to buy an X5000 (including one of my primary reasons, as a way of saying thanks to Trevor Dickinson for building a Qorlq based system - something I've wanted for a long time).
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.08.17 - 14:00
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I could care less.

    ;-)

    > We are probably getting an update to the VIA Envy 24HT driver (which will
    > bring this 'in house') as well as a driver for the CMI8738.

    That's good to hear, so users of OS4 on X5000 at least won't have to change or add another sound card for trying out MorphOS :-)

    > outside of the SAM460 users, we'll be the only MorphOS users able to run
    > GCN video cards once they are supported.

    Sam460 has PCIe v1 (just like PowerMac11,2, Nemo/X1000 and Tabor/A1222).
  • »03.08.17 - 14:45
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4221 from 2009/1/28
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    So our only option for the latest video cards will be the X5000.
    Interesting, thanks Andreas.

    BTW - The SAM460 had a V1 PCIe slot?
    That system is supposed to support Radeon HD 7750 and R7 250 video cards.
    If that is the case (and it's not a 1.1 or 2.0 slot), then you would assume that the PCIe G5 would be able to support a Radeon HD 7750.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.08.17 - 15:24
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 87 from 2015/6/30
    Radeon HD7750,HD7770,R7 250E,R7 250X and R7 265 models confirmed working on Sam460ex.
    Asus R7240-2GD3-L and Asus R7250 (R7250-1GD5-V2)(Verde -Venus LE HD8830M) not working.
    No u-boot display . So looks like Oland and some Verde variants will not work .
    Probably related to U-Boot rather than the PCIe slot .
    Both model work ok on X5000.


    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    So our only option for the latest video cards will be the X5000.
    Interesting, thanks Andreas.

    BTW - The SAM460 had a V1 PCIe slot?
    That system is supposed to support Radeon HD 7750 and R7 250 video cards.
    If that is the case (and it's not a 1.1 or 2.0 slot), then you would assume that the PCIe G5 would be able to support a Radeon HD 7750.





    [ Edited by Spectre660 03.08.2017 - 11:57 ]
  • »03.08.17 - 15:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The SAM460 had a V1 PCIe slot?

    Yes, and it still has ;-) The PPC460EX was introduced in 2007 half a year before the first PCIe v2 hardware came to market.

    > If [...] it's not a 1.1 or 2.0 slot [...]

    PPC460EX of Sam460 has PCIe v1.1 (same as PA6T of Nemo/X1000), while CPC945 ("U4") of PowerMac11,2 has PCIe v1.0a (same as P1022 of Tabor/A1222).
  • »03.08.17 - 16:47
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4221 from 2009/1/28
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    Good argument against Tabor.
    I wonder if the difference between PCIe V1 and v1.1 are what allow the SAM460 to use some GCN cards?
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.08.17 - 19:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
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    > Good argument against Tabor. I wonder if the difference between PCIe V1 and v1.1
    > are what allow the SAM460 to use some GCN cards?

    There are Tabor users with GCN1 cards:

    Radeon HD 7750
    Radeon R7 265
  • »03.08.17 - 20:34
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4221 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Good argument against Tabor. I wonder if the difference between PCIe V1 and v1.1
    > are what allow the SAM460 to use some GCN cards?

    There are Tabor users with GCN1 cards:

    Radeon HD 7750
    Radeon R7 265


    R7 265, huh?
    If that works, then an R9 270 or 270X ought to work.
    They are all derivitives of Pitcairn.

    So why only specific cards and not all GCN gen1 cards?
    And again, does PCIe v1.1 (versus V1) allow for this?
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.08.17 - 20:57
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:R7 265, huh?
    If that works, then an R9 270 or 270X ought to work.
    They are all derivitives of Pitcairn.

    So why only specific cards and not all GCN gen1 cards?
    And again, does PCIe v1.1 (versus V1) allow for this?


    It would be so great if the R9 270X would work! Then I could be lazy and wouldn't have to swap cards :)
  • »04.08.17 - 09:08
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > again, does PCIe v1.1 (versus V1) allow for this?

    Again, Tabor/A1222 is PCIe v1.0a and works at least with some (or even all?) GCN1 cards (while Sam460 is PCIe v1.1 and works with some GCN1 cards). If PowerMac11,2, which is PCIe v1.0a, works with less cards than Tabor/A1222, how can v1.1 vs. v1.0a be relevant for this?
  • »04.08.17 - 09:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> There are Tabor users with GCN1 cards: [...]

    >> R7 265, huh? If that works, then an R9 270 or 270X ought to work.

    > It would be so great if the R9 270X would work! Then I could be lazy
    > and wouldn't have to swap cards :)

    If you read what Jim replied to, you can see that by "work" he didn't mean "work with MorphOS on Cyrus/X5000" but "work in Tabor/A1222 (and Sam460)".
  • »04.08.17 - 09:46
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4221 from 2009/1/28
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    >> It would be so great if the R9 270X would work! Then I could be lazy
    >> and wouldn't have to swap cards :)

    >If you read what Jim replied to, you can see that by "work" he didn't mean >"work with MorphOS on Cyrus/X5000" but "work in Tabor/A1222 (and Sam460)".

    Thanks Andreas, I seem to have added to the confusion a few have on this issue.
    I have been bouncing between discussions related to the SAM460, the G5, and the X5000, and apparently haven't been clear enough in my posts as to which I was referring to.

    So, first, the SAM...it appears to be able to support at least some of the GCN1 cards.
    So PCIe v1.1 appears to be able to handle the same cards as V2.
    Tabor, frankly I wish you had not brought this device into the conversation as it's an unknown, and the only feature it has that fit into the conversation is it's PCIe V1 slot.
    The G5, is V1 PCIe, and as of yet I have seen no evidence that it can support GCN video cards.
    BUT, if the v1.1 SAM460 can, and Tabor probably can, then it seems possible.

    Our best bet at this point is to try to get one of our friends in the Linux community to try it. Spectre660 has some great Linux ports for AmigaOne hardware, so he's one possible source of info...and there are others.

    The X5000 under MorphOS...
    Again, if you want support delayed further, talk to Mark.
    The man has busted his ass getting the remaining Terascale cards up to snuff.
    He has a Radeon HD 7770 and an HD 7850 (as well as a GCN 2ND R7 260X).
    I have a Radeon R5 240 here I haven't shipped to him yet, and plan to add an R7 250 to that.
    I don't know what other GCN cards he might have, but I don't think he has an R9 270 (any of you want to buy him one, feel free to do so).

    Right now, it about 6:00AM Friday morning on the east coast of the US.
    The Radeon HD 6870 I received yesterday is completely fubared, and I'm feeling a bit disgusted.
    I did manage to order a Chaintech VIA Envy24HT sound card yesterday though.

    And I still intend to buy an X5000. Spectre660's work porting Linux distros makes this an attractive platform for me.
    And it's still got the most modern feature set of any if the hardware we've been discussing.

    The video card support issue...I'm willing to be patient.
    Our best developer is working on it.

    [ Edited by Jim 04.08.2017 - 06:09 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.08.17 - 11:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9285 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Tabor, frankly I wish you had not brought this device into the conversation as it's an
    > unknown, and the only feature it has that fit into the conversation is it's PCIe V1 slot.

    I'm not sure I get your drift. As I see it, Tabor is the key to understand that, apparently, some (or all?) GCN1 cards *can* work with a PCIe v1.0a controller. So if GCN1 cards don't work in PowerMac11,2, it can't be due to the PCIe version, obviously. Besides, I'm not aware I mentioned any Tabor feature other than its PCIe version (and the GCN1 cards it's been reported to work with) in this conversation.

    > Our best bet at this point is to try to get one of our friends in the Linux community
    > to try it. Spectre660 has some great Linux ports for AmigaOne hardware, so he's
    > one possible source of info...

    Does he have a PowerMac11,2 he could put a GCN1 card into?

    > The X5000 under MorphOS... Again, if you want support delayed further, talk to Mark.

    You know my stance on this from our discussion 7 months back (see link in comment #58) :-)
  • »04.08.17 - 12:36
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