ScoutNG bounty proposal
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1446 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    For a long time Scout has been a tool that most amigans have used, but it's grown old and is mostly AOS3.1 centric. It also requires one to install a handful of external MUI classes. And finally, it doesn't display infos about MorphOS' internals.

    Here is what I'm proposing:
    - A totally new application with a UI similar to Scout
    - Runs with a standard MorphOS installation
    - A peek into kernel internals of exec, intuition, dos
    - An ability to show certain system lists in context (processes/tasks/windows as a tree)

    Target: 200 euro.

    Let me know what you think and what features you'd like to see so that I could come up with a more detailed list before officially launching the bounty.
  • »11.01.17 - 14:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1040 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Honestly I would prefer something more useful for usual users, like fixed OWB or maybe some new browser...
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »11.01.17 - 14:28
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    beworld
    Posts: 134 from 2010/2/10
    From: FRANCE
    hi

    good idea

    Scout like this ? : http://webpages.charter.net/watertonian/1200brag/screen5.html
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  • »11.01.17 - 17:27
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  • esc
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 82 from 2013/5/28
    I'd chip in. Scout could help with further development of other pieces of software, since it's so typically used as an initial troubleshooter.
  • »11.01.17 - 18:17
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    For a long time Scout has been a tool that most amigans have used, but it's grown old and is mostly AOS3.1 centric. It also requires one to install a handful of external MUI classes. And finally, it doesn't display infos about MorphOS' internals.

    Here is what I'm proposing:
    - A totally new application with a UI similar to Scout
    - Runs with a standard MorphOS installation
    - A peek into kernel internals of exec, intuition, dos
    - An ability to show certain system lists in context (processes/tasks/windows as a tree)

    Target: 200 euro.

    Let me know what you think and what features you'd like to see so that I could come up with a more detailed list before officially launching the bounty.


    Sounds good, there are some good features of XOpa too which could be considered (listing screens comes to mind, which is missing from Scout). Will be a few weeks before I can contribute, but will certainly do so.

    On a closely related note, I'd also love to see Snoopium updated (Having seen Snoopy on OS4.1 a while back, I see it drills down into much more detail within each function). There may be some duplication of work there, so could be worth considering alongside.

    Most especially though, I'd like to see the facility added to execute commands/scripts from particular combinations of 'process name', 'action', and 'target name'.
    That would turn Snoopium from an (incredibly useful, but passive) observer into a wonderfully flexible system tool.

    Bounty hunters, name your price on that last one. :)
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  • »11.01.17 - 18:38
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 876 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    Sounds good, there are some good features of XOpa too which could be considered (listing screens comes to mind, which is missing from Scout). Will be a few weeks before I can contribute, but will certainly do so.



    Sure scout can list screens. It is just a little missleading that the button is named windows. :D

    Should be named screens & windows.


    [ Edited by ASiegel 11.01.2017 - 20:49 ]
  • »11.01.17 - 18:43
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    Quote:

    Sounds good, there are some good features of XOpa too which could be considered (listing screens comes to mind, which is missing from Scout). Will be a few weeks before I can contribute, but will certainly do so.



    Sure scout can list screens. It is just a little missleading that the button is named windows. :D

    Should be named screens & windows.



    So misleading, I never noticed! :D

    /Ah, yes, I see now, windows are grouped by screen.

    [ Edited by boot_wb 11.01.2017 - 17:48 ]
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

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  • »11.01.17 - 18:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    For a long time Scout has been a tool that most amigans have used, but it's grown old and is mostly AOS3.1 centric. It also requires one to install a handful of external MUI classes. And finally, it doesn't display infos about MorphOS' internals.

    Here is what I'm proposing:
    - A totally new application with a UI similar to Scout
    - Runs with a standard MorphOS installation
    - A peek into kernel internals of exec, intuition, dos
    - An ability to show certain system lists in context (processes/tasks/windows as a tree)

    Target: 200 euro.

    Let me know what you think and what features you'd like to see so that I could come up with a more detailed list before officially launching the bounty.


    - Change "bad OS" in AmigaOS version field to "Badass OS" ?
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
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    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »11.01.17 - 20:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 431 from 2006/11/16
    Good idea!
  • »11.01.17 - 20:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2317 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Anything that helps programmers and users to troubleshoot their systems sounds like a good idea as an upgrade target, so count me in. I'll contribute, when the bounty is set up.

    Will this be an upgrade, or a complete rewrite, with perhaps added features? Never mind, I reread your initial post, and see the answer listed there.

    I have also sent you an email regarding another matter Jacek.

    [ Edited by amigadave 11.01.2017 - 11:44 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »11.01.17 - 20:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 495 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, Gr...
    I think Scout would be more useful to me than Exposé, as it's a system tool, and can end a failed task, sometimes, and MorphOS Task Manager does not seem to have the same ability to force an application to end, if it has failed/frozen, but I believe Scout has a more effective implementation of this functionality - is that correct?
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  • »11.01.17 - 20:49
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 128 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Sounds like a very good idea! I will support it, since I plan to do some fiddling around with MorphOS-programming this year myself.
    PMac G5 11,2. PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. PBook G4 5,6. [MorphOS 3.9 / Gentoo Linux / Ubuntu MATE 16.10] 2 x A1200. ACA-1233/55, ACA1232/40, Indivision AGA Mk2, 4 GiB CF. [Amiga OS 3.9]
  • »12.01.17 - 15:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2348 from 2003/2/24
    Very good idea, go for it! :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »12.01.17 - 15:45
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 3859 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Very good idea, go for it! :-)


    Yes, needed. Can't count the number of times I have to kill processes under Windows, and under MorphOS I'm forced to reboot.
    Great idea.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »12.01.17 - 19:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 465 from 2007/7/29
    Why do you plan a rewrite? Why not upgrade existing Scout? Most things are already good, I think. Just the old list displays need to be removed, CIA A/B is not accurate anymore but I think it does not have to be rewritten from scratch.
  • »12.01.17 - 20:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Yes, needed. [...] under MorphOS I'm forced to reboot. Great idea.

    I doubt ScoutNG will change this, as it won't add memory protection or resource tracking to MorphOS.
  • »12.01.17 - 20:42
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1446 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    Why do you plan a rewrite? Why not upgrade existing Scout? Most things are already good, I think. Just the old list displays need to be removed, CIA A/B is not accurate anymore but I think it does not have to be rewritten from scratch.


    I had a brief look at the source code and I will not touch it even for 10x more cash. Also, since the original is opensource, it'd mean I cannot show stuff that relies on private APIs and structures - and with a closed source approach I can.
  • »12.01.17 - 21:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 495 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, Gr...
    So, if the original code is too obtuse/messy to untangle into something manageable then have you a plan of your own to implement something with similar functionality for MorphOS or are you going to have to drop this plan for the time-being?
    Mac Mini 1.5GHz, Model 10.2, 64MB VRam, 250GB HDD, 1GB RAM, Airport, Bluetooth, Wireless Keyboard & Mouse, DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW, Iomega MiniMax, Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2, MorphOS 3.9, Mac OS X 10.4 & 10.5 & A1138 Powerbook MOS v3.9, Model 5,8
  • »13.01.17 - 01:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > have you a plan of your own to implement something with similar functionality
    > for MorphOS [...]?

    Isn't this exactly what his bounty proposal is about?
  • »13.01.17 - 02:14
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1841 from 2003/10/19
    From: Oxnard, Ca.
    I would put in for this. I think its a much needed tool that should even be included in the core OS itself! Dont let this idea die!
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  • »13.01.17 - 05:22
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 3859 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Yes, needed. [...] under MorphOS I'm forced to reboot. Great idea.

    I doubt ScoutNG will change this, as it won't add memory protection or resource tracking to MorphOS.


    If memory protection was my issue, then I wouldn't need to kill processes under Windows.
    But you may have a point about system recovery on lock ups, as lockups may often be the result of an improper write to another processes address space.
    That still doesn't negate the utility of being able to kill errant processes.

    [ Edited by Jim 13.01.2017 - 07:19 ]
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »13.01.17 - 11:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Yes, needed. [...] under MorphOS I'm forced to reboot. Great idea.

    >> I doubt ScoutNG will change this, as it won't add memory protection
    >> or resource tracking to MorphOS.

    > If memory protection was my issue

    Reasons reboot is required under MorphOS are lack of memory protection (after buggy task played havoc with system structures) or, as I mentioned as well, lack of resource tracking (if buggy task crashed itself and another instance of it can't be invoked because required system resources are still in use and can't be freed).

    > That still doesn't negate the utility of being able to kill errant processes.

    Yes, I was talking about rebooting, not killing crashed tasks. Under MorphOS the utility of killing crashed tasks instead of rebooting is largely cosmetical (removal of windows belonging to crashed task) anyway. Best utility is when a crashed task consumes 100% CPU and TaskManager can merely be used to minimize the task priority. That's when being able to kill the task is of benefit (unless you want to restart the task where the resource tracking issue mentioned above kicks in, so reboot is required).
  • »13.01.17 - 14:14
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 826 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    I'll donate to this, it's definitely needed.

    How long roughly would you need to to develop the first version?
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

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  • »13.01.17 - 14:23
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