Hints and rumoured sightings of the very shy 3.10
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 527 from 2007/8/6
    From: SE Queensland
    In jacadcaps' MorphOS trashcan thread, geit made an interesting comment about MorphOS 3.10...

    Which reminds me, wasn't there a demonstration (and / or talk) of 3.10 at a MorphOS event some months ago? Can anyone share a few details or did you all have to sign NDAs for that part of the event? ;)
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »03.01.17 - 18:46
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1592 from 2003/2/24
    3.10 has been "seen" in public on every event where atleast 1 developer or betatester has been present.

    Problem is most people couldn't spot the differences by just passing by.

    And no not gonna post any spoilers not.
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  • »03.01.17 - 19:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2279 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    3.10 has been "seen" in public on every event where atleast 1 developer or betatester has been present.

    Problem is most people couldn't spot the differences by just passing by.

    And no not gonna post any spoilers not.


    Not asking you to post any spoilers about 3.10, but was there any previous statements regarding what other changes would be made with 3.10, besides support for the X5000 system, or am I mistaken, and is support for the X5000 not guaranteed to be included with 3.10?

    My faulty memory believes that 3.10 will support the X5000, but I can't remember if any other details were discussed, and I don't know where to look to find official statements about MorphOS3.10, since there doesn't seem to be any information about it on the official MorphOS website.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.01.17 - 20:57
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 525 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    I guess we must call Andreas Wolf for the rescue. I'm pretty sure there's been a forum thread about MorphOS 3.10 features list somewhere here. Or was it on ppa.pl?
  • »03.01.17 - 21:05
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1724 from 2003/6/4
    At least I found a screenshot of the even hotter version number 3.11...


    bry9o8u

    [ Editiert durch Zylesea 03.01.2017 - 22:43 ]
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  • »03.01.17 - 21:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> was there any previous statements regarding what other changes would be made
    >> with 3.10, besides support for the X5000 system [...]? [...] I can't remember if any
    >> other details were discussed

    > I guess we must call Andreas Wolf for the rescue.

    There have been some new features and improvements mentioned over the past months. Off the top of my head I remember:

    - isochronous USB mode
    - email client with IMAP support (may not make it into 3.10, though)
    - improved graphics drivers (including improved Radeon HD support)
  • »03.01.17 - 22:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2338 from 2003/2/24
    A completely new network stack has supposedly been in the works for long, with a more complete contemporary set of features. (No idea whether it will make it to 3.10 though)

    MIDI.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.01.17 - 23:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 525 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    So it was ppa.pl then:

    - 2d acceleration for all Radeons
    - 3d and Overlay for R500
    - expanded developer environment
    - VPDF with current poppler version
    - 1,8 GB of RAM available for G5 PowerMacs
    - Odyssey with integrated AROS-derived fixes
    - new blanker
    - new Clipboard mechanism
    - new Reggae classes
    - new screenbar modules (e.g. screengrabber)
    - sshfs integration
    - Ambient fixes
    - Obj-C integration
    - X5000 support
    - new scanner drivers
    - support for PCI-e wifi and LAN cards

    ...and something more (a suprise of some kind)
  • »04.01.17 - 07:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2338 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    So it was ppa.pl then:

    - 2d acceleration for all Radeons
    - 3d and Overlay for R500
    - expanded developer environment
    - VPDF with current poppler version
    - 1,8 GB of RAM available for G5 PowerMacs
    - Odyssey with integrated AROS-derived fixes
    - new blanker
    - new Clipboard mechanism
    - new Reggae classes
    - new screenbar modules (e.g. screengrabber)
    - sshfs integration
    - Ambient fixes
    - Obj-C integration
    - X5000 support
    - new scanner drivers
    - support for PCI-e wifi and LAN cards


    Combined with other hints, it surely looks like a major update! Worth waiting for! :-)


    Quote:

    ...and something more (a suprise of some kind)


    3.10 not being 3.10 but 4.0? Pretty please? ;-)

    :-D


    Or perhaps more likely something like this? That would be very cool as well! :-)


    (Pagestream 5 for MorphOS actually running (and on an X5000))

    8-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.17 - 08:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2338 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:

    - Obj-C integration



    This is interesting. And what exactly does the "integration" part mean? That it is merely bundled with the new IDE like C or C++ or is it more than that? I recall reading somewhere that one of the key features of MUI5 vs. 4 was new language support. Is this it, and is this MUI adaption part of the meaning of the word "integration", and if so, are other parts of MorphOS affected?

    I have very little knowledge of Objective C, *what are the perks of it* compared to, say, C++? Why and when is Obj-C preferred?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.17 - 09:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 2d acceleration for all Radeons

    ...meaning Radeon HD (and newer?), as pre-HD Radeons already are 2D-accelerated in current MorphOS.

    > 3d and Overlay for R500

    Isn't this already there since MorphOS 3.8?

    > expanded developer environment

    Yes, this should be part of the separate SDK.

    > 1,8 GB of RAM available for G5 PowerMacs

    Yes, this known one had escaped me yesterday. But according to geit these 1.7 GiB (= 1.8 GB) are not restricted to the G5.

    > Odyssey with integrated AROS-derived fixes

    That's fantastic. I read about an update to be provided in MorphOS 3.10 but wasn't sure this wasn't going to be just an update of the linked OpenSSL component (as in the "updated" Odyssey in MorphOS 3.9).

    > new screenbar modules (e.g. screengrabber)

    Yes, as reported by geit. Forgot that one yesterday, too.

    > Obj-C integration

    Isn't that already in the current SDK?
  • »04.01.17 - 11:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Or perhaps more likely something like this? That would be very cool as well! :-)
    > [...] (Pagestream 5 for MorphOS actually running (and on an X5000))

    I'm not sure I'd welcome commercial applications like Pagestream being bundled with MorphOS unless it wouldn't increase the MorphOS price (which I consider unlikely).
  • »04.01.17 - 12:19
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 113 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:

    - Obj-C integration



    I have very little knowledge of Objective C, *what are the perks of it* compared to, say, C++? Why and when is Obj-C preferred?


    I like this as well since I'm very much used to Objective-C from the OS X side of things.
    Objective-C is clearly less complex and much cleaner than C++. The syntax is something to get used to though.


    Manfred
  • »04.01.17 - 14:26
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Tomo
    Posts: 70 from 2003/7/29
    From: Heesch, The Ne...
    PageStream 5 would be incredible. I'm using it mostly now on my Mac, but using it again on my Peg is what I'm dreaming of.....

    Tom
  • »04.01.17 - 15:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 480 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, Gr...
    Likewise, PageStream 5 (if stable/reliable) would be great news, as would OWB without the JavaScript Engine running amok every so often.

    I'm sure that PageStream v5.x for MorphOS would be something that we would have to pay Deron Kazmaier for, as he is the copyright holder of the software, unless some code deal has been done with him, if he's not interested in continuing its progression - though I'd hope he would, as he obviously knows the program's intricacies better than anyone.

    That's not forgetting Isochronous integration, improved scanning features, and hopefully the Beta Printing will have become integrated as well as all the other additional features that are intended for 3.10, and even if they don't quite make it for 3.10, then hopefully they weill soon afterwards, which would still be OK by me, and of course I'll be putting my money where my fingers go - into MorphOS itsef wherever I can, within my spare budget - thanks guys - I'm looking forward to this latest update, sounds really great. 8-D
    Mac Mini 1.5GHz, Model 10.2, 64MB VRam, 250GB HDD, 1GB RAM, Airport, Bluetooth, Wireless Keyboard & Mouse, DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW, Iomega MiniMax, Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2, MorphOS 3.9, Mac OS X 10.4 & 10.5 & A1138 Powerbook MOS v3.9, Model 5,8
  • »04.01.17 - 18:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > hopefully the Beta Printing will have become integrated

    That's the third planned improvement I knew of but had forgotten about yesterday ;-) Thanks for the reminder.
  • »04.01.17 - 21:42
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 3760 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Hmm... You guys don't expect much. ;-)

    Does all that have to be ready just to jump a revision number?

    And 2D and 3D acceleration are no longer seperate issues as the R500 was the last series supporting 2D primitives.
    From there out, each successive series brings its own evolutionary changes.
    So you are more likely to get this stuff progressively, rather than all at once.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.01.17 - 22:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 480 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, Gr...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > hopefully the Beta Printing will have become integrated

    That's the third planned improvement I knew of but had forgotten about yesterday ;-) Thanks for the reminder.

    That will be a Fantastic addition to our OS, muchas gracias to all involved, specifcially 'Zukow' I suppose. 8-D
    Mac Mini 1.5GHz, Model 10.2, 64MB VRam, 250GB HDD, 1GB RAM, Airport, Bluetooth, Wireless Keyboard & Mouse, DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW, Iomega MiniMax, Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2, MorphOS 3.9, Mac OS X 10.4 & 10.5 & A1138 Powerbook MOS v3.9, Model 5,8
  • »04.01.17 - 23:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2338 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Hmm... You guys don't expect much. ;-)

    Does all that have to be ready just to jump a revision number?


    Well, with a waiting time of 566 days since the 3.9 release, we have passed the 554 days it took for the (huge) 2.7 -> 3.0 release to get here, and we are currently travelling slowly towards the 1157 days it took for the (monumental) 1.4.5 -> 2.0 release, which is currently the only remaining unmatched waiting time, the all-time high!

    So yes, I expect the next release to be somewhere between huge and monumental... ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.17 - 23:47
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 32 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    - improved graphics drivers (including improved Radeon HD support)


    Is it reasonable to expect that, along with X5000 support, the improved Radeon HD support will include some of the higher end (at least in the Amiga world) video cards that can be installed in an X5000? I'm talking about cards like the R9 270X and such.

    I don't realistically expect support for so many cards but hopefully the support for more cards will continue to expand.
  • »05.01.17 - 05:48
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 123 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Pgovotsos schrieb:

    Is it reasonable to expect that, along with X5000 support, the improved Radeon HD support will include some of the higher end (at least in the Amiga world) video cards that can be installed in an X5000? I'm talking about cards like the R9 270X and such.

    I doubt it. Radeon HD cards are r600-series, which is AFAIK an evolutionary step from the r500-series already supported (and now getting improved). The R9 270X/370X are GCN1-series. Rather a new design than an evolutionary step.

    It took more than a year in Linuxland for proper support. And by devs which are directly employed at AMD... Recently AMD released GCN4-cards which are run by an an entierly different driver. ;-) My uneducated guess is that framebuffer-support will be pracitial in a shorter period of time, but don't expect halfway decent 2D/3D-acceleration anytime soon for cards newer than r600-series.

    But in my opinion that doesn't matter much. No software here on MorphOS which could utilize a good r500/r600-card to the full with just one CPU-core. ;-)

    Much more interesting would be utilizing the UVD-unit (Universal Video Decoder) which is present from r600-series on. This unit can do high-res MPEG4/VC1/H264-decoding in hardware. This would allow decent videoplayback, even on single-core machines.

    [ Editiert durch ernsteiswuerfel 05.01.2017 - 15:43 ]
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  • »05.01.17 - 14:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Is it reasonable to expect that, along with X5000 support, the improved
    >> Radeon HD support will include some of the higher end (at least in the
    >> Amiga world) video cards that can be installed in an X5000? I'm talking
    >> about cards like the R9 270X and such.

    > I doubt it. [...] But in my opinion that doesn't matter much. No software
    > here on MorphOS which could utilize a good r500/r600-card to the full
    > with just one CPU-core.

    I think the question about support for GCN-based graphics cards in MorphOS aims at the possibility of using the X5000 with OS4/MorphOS dual boot with just one single graphics card installed. If graphics card support is not sufficiently overlapping between the two OS, two different graphics cards will have to be installed.
  • »05.01.17 - 15:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2338 from 2003/2/24
    It would be strange to release a MorphOS version with X5000 support without supporting the GFX cards they are usually sold with.

    Supporting any other GFX cards than these should come much lower down in the priority list.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »05.01.17 - 16:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > It would be strange to release a MorphOS version with X5000 support
    > without supporting the GFX cards they are usually sold with.

    Sam460, anyone? ;-)
    (Mere framebuffer support obviously isn't what Pgovotsos asked for.)
  • »05.01.17 - 17:28
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 870 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:

    Much more interesting would be utilizing the UVD-unit (Universal Video Decoder) which is present from r600-series on. This unit can do high-res MPEG4/VC1/H264-decoding in hardware. This would allow decent videoplayback, even on single-core machines.



    For five minutes or so. Then people start screeming "Why is there no h265 support? That is standard!"

    And for the fun. Yes. h264 is getting more and more obsolete as h265 HEVC saves a huge amount of space. In most cases about 40-50% less data.

    Will need to update my Kodi hardware in 2017, too.

    [ Edited by geit 05.01.2017 - 19:02 ]
  • »05.01.17 - 17:56
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