Crowdfunding for TALOS Workstation
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 829 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ acepeg - I'd agree with you, that sensible low end (i.e. low cost) prices are the way, I believe, for many users, and high performance (i.e. expensive) systems are only intended for developers, where necessary, for keeping compiling/development times to a minimum.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB RAM,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2,MorphOS 3.11,Mac OSX 10.4/10.5,A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.11,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz (DP)
  • »24.05.19 - 05:16
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4860 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Well, I'm typing this on a cheap Galaxy J7 Refine.
    But if I compare the price of a Blackbird system to the Ryzen 3000 series I intend to build, the prices aren't that too far apart.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.05.19 - 01:17
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    bennymee
    Posts: 99 from 2004/4/14
    From: Netherlands
    First Blackbird's are delivered:

    https://twitter.com/justinrwlynn/status/1137659685241147392
  • »11.06.19 - 20:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    bennymee schrieb:
    First Blackbird's are delivered:

    https://twitter.com/justinrwlynn/status/1137659685241147392


    And already reviewed: https://www.talospace.com/
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »11.06.19 - 21:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > IBM POWER9 CPU (4-Core) $375.00

    July saw a 16% price increase to US$436.25 (bigger variants have been increased in price 7...16%, the bigger the CPU the lower the relative increase).
    Likewise, the Blackbird mainboard price was increased by 10.5% to US$1105.
  • »25.08.19 - 17:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > July saw a 16% price increase to US$436.25 (bigger variants have been increased
    > in price 7...16%, the bigger the CPU the lower the relative increase).

    POWER9 available in new DD2.3 stepping with ultravisor functionality and hardware watchpoint support. Price has been increased over DD2.2 stepping by 13...20%, the bigger the CPU the lower the relative increase.
  • »08.11.19 - 13:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2653 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Well, I'm typing this on a cheap Galaxy J7 Refine.
    But if I compare the price of a Blackbird system to the Ryzen 3000 series I intend to build, the prices aren't that too far apart.


    I'm really surprised that you haven't already purchased a Blackbird system for yourself Jim. With all your well known preference for the Power architecture and support for keeping an up to date fork of MorphOS for PPC, even after it is ported to (or rewritten for)the x64 architecture. It's too bad that the price of the Power9 CPU's is going up, but it still appears that the price of a complete Blackbird system is close, if not below the price of an X5000.

    If Trevor is really dedicated to moving AmigaOS4 forward in the best way, he should probably ditch making any more new X5000's, sell all the Tabor's he can, and then support porting AmigaOS4 to the Blackbird as the next high end target system. Stop wasting so much money designing custom hardware that has such limited performance, and support Raptor by promoting the Blackbird system. A-Eon should also be supporting the open PPC laptop project (Trevor probably has, and I just haven't been keeping up to date with reading his blog).

    Although it would be nice to see MorphOS running on a Blackbird system, the switch to x64 makes far more sense for the users, most of which would never spend the money on such an expensive system. I would not be surprised to see a developer, team member only version, of MorphOS running on a Blackbird system some time in the future, if any of the team members care to purchase a Blackbird system.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »09.11.19 - 18:35
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1943 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:

    If Trevor is really dedicated to moving AmigaOS4 forward in the best way, he should probably ditch making any more new X5000's, sell all the Tabor's he can, and then support porting AmigaOS4 to the Blackbird as the next high end target system.



    The Talos is a very poor choice if you are restricted to 1 core/CPU.

    Quote:


    Stop wasting so much money designing custom hardware that has such limited performance,



    Designing an "X6000" for sure makes no sense, but it might make sense to either sell the current X5000 at production cost (same as ditching it and reselling Talos) or do a X5000cr, aka no Xorro, no Amiga-naming or any other BS.

    Quote:


    A-Eon should also be supporting the open PPC laptop project (Trevor probably has, and I just haven't been keeping up to date with reading his blog).



    As I've written elsewhere, at current pace it will be years before porting OS4 could even start (and we all know how long that tends to take) so IMO too little too late.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.11.19 - 18:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > A-Eon should also be supporting the open PPC laptop project (Trevor
    > probably has, and I just haven't been keeping up to date with reading his blog).

    I don't remember anything in his blog about it, and he's not in the public list of 100+ EUR donors.

    > I would not be surprised to see a developer, team member only version,
    > of MorphOS running on a Blackbird system some time in the future,
    > if any of the team members care to purchase a Blackbird system.

    There'd be another possibility :-)
  • »09.11.19 - 21:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Trevor [...] should probably ditch making any more new X5000's,
    >> sell all the Tabor's he can, and then support porting AmigaOS4
    >> to the Blackbird as the next high end target system.

    > The Talos is a very poor choice if you are restricted to 1 core/CPU.

    That's why amigadave proposed the Blackbird, not the Talos ;-) And the Blackbird would be no worse choice than the X5000/40 for running OS4.

    > it might make sense to [...] do a X5000cr, aka no Xorro,
    > no Amiga-naming or any other BS.

    I doubt this would save more than 10%.
  • »09.11.19 - 21:54
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1943 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    That's why amigadave proposed the Blackbird, not the Talos ;-) And the Blackbird would be no worse choice than the X5000/40 for running OS4.



    And how many people are running the X5000/40?

    As for the X5000(cr) being cheaper, Tabor is supposed to be 400€ and apart from the different SoC I don't see that much essential stuff on the X5000 that would make it 4-5 times expensive.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »10.11.19 - 06:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> the Blackbird would be no worse choice than the X5000/40 for running OS4.

    > And how many people are running the X5000/40?

    Probably single-digit as long as it is still not released. Point is that the X5000/40 is an announced platform for OS4, so what would be worse in a 4-core Blackbird with OS4, except for the pending porting work?

    > Tabor is supposed to be 400€ and apart from the different SoC I don't see that
    > much essential stuff on the X5000 that would make it 4-5 times expensive.

    In my opinion, the biggest driver of difference in PCB development/production cost between Cyrus and Tabor boards is the layer count. The QorIQ P5 likely requires an 8-layer board while the QorIQ P1 might do with 4 layers. PCB development/production costs increase overproportionally with increasing layer count. That's why I think that not populating Cyrus' xCORE/Xena and accompanying PCIe/Xorro slot footprints and omitting the "AmigaOne" license wouldn't suffice to take it into Tabor (plus purchase price difference between P5 and P1) price range, not even remotely.
    And let's wait for the final Tabor sales price (as opposed to announced early adopter price). Cyrus price might turn out more like 3 times the Tabor price, rather than 4-5 times.
  • »10.11.19 - 08:52
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1943 from 2003/2/24
    O.k. so I just checked, the P1022 is BGA689 and the P5020 is BGA1295. So almost twice as many connections which might explain the need for an 8layer board.

    Still doubt this will add to an >1000€ markup in production.....
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »10.11.19 - 08:59
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    bennymee
    Posts: 99 from 2004/4/14
    From: Netherlands
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    O.k. so I just checked, the P1022 is BGA689 and the P5020 is BGA1295. So almost twice as many connections which might explain the need for an 8layer board.

    Still doubt this will add to an >1000€ markup in production.....


    And besides that, the Tabor mini itx is ~39% the size of an X5000. Which should decrease cost of manufactoring.
  • »10.11.19 - 18:21
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1943 from 2003/2/24
    @bennymee


    Wouldn't have a problem with a minITXed X5000cr ;)
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »10.11.19 - 18:23
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