C64 for the future? (it's back!)
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4700 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> Oli HD did his talk about his Coldfire project and Jens absolutely tore into Oli over it.

    > I have two Coldfire systems. They are actually pretty cool. And the cpus are dirt cheap with
    > support for PCI and LAN built in. So I'm not sure I give a rat's ass for what Jen's thinks.

    The fact you don't intend to run AmigaOS on them might play a role in your conclusion, I reckon ;-)


    Well, I am running an Atari derived OS (in text mode) on one system.
    And AmigaOS could be ported to run on Coldfire.
    68K software would still require a software layer to trap commands that differ between the two ISAs, but it can be done.
    And software that is recompiled has the benefit of running on a significantly faster cpu (my best Coldfire module runs at 266 MHz).

    Right now, I'd like to get the source code for the 68K version of Microware's OS-9 operating system for recompile (I already have the source for OS9000 but that is all C).

    Amigans, opinionated as always, dismissed the Coldfire out of hand.
    It seems to have served the Atari community well.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.09.16 - 15:58
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1098 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Genesi that MorphOS development team also had disagreements with...

    *Some* MorphOS team members, not the team as such.

    This seems like a redundant distinction, particularly because "disagreements" was not being defined.
  • »07.09.16 - 16:33
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1261 from 2003/4/13
    I've never owned a 1541U2 either, so going on assumptions based on public info

    Quote:

    Jupp3 wrote:
    1541 emulation: (no experience with Chameleon, but let's assume it's as good) - Tie.

    REU support: (Doing some related coding myself, so I find this somewhat important) - again, based on assumption - Tie.


    Probably right on both. I assume the 1541U2 can let you change the 1541 roms? REU, the TC64 aims for a cycle accurate C= REU emulation, I assume the same on the 1541U?


    Quote:

    Expandability: 1541 Ultimate 2 has an USB connector, and has lately added f.ex. USB ethernet support (still hoping for MIDI support). There's also cassette port connector for dumping tapes & loading images. Chameleon has a custom slot for (expensive) Ethernet module and IR & PS/2 (maybe something else too?) - I'd say especially due to future expandability potential, 1541U2 is a clear winner.


    The TC64 has a USB connector also, but it is not for expandability, it is for connecting to a PC. The TC64 does have IR and is bundled with a CDTV remote. The breakout cable does give a PS/2 mouse and a PS/2 keyboard. There is also a breakout cable for IEC, but that's pretty redundant in cart mode. I only use cart mode.

    The "custom slot" is not so custom, it is an Amiga 1200 style clockport. The most popular use is RR-Net ethernet and mechanically inside the case this is what it was designed for. It is confirmed that the Silver Surfer Serial Adapter works and I suspect other devices probably would if anyone bothered to try them (aka MP3@64). There is even a Minimig core that supports Silver Surfer.

    Most of the expandability is internally. The TC64 has features the 1541U simple does not. Features can be added at anytime. It is already like a swiss army knife.

    Quote:

    Compatibility: AFAIK, Chameleon can't be used as a drive with Vic-20 etc. (at least without some extra hardware) - Winner: 1541U2


    The TC64 is not a stand alone drive. The 1541U has a pretty narrow focus. It is my understanding to be used as a stand alone IEC device it has to be configured on a 64 before being used stand alone. That's a wash for me, I don't own a Vic 20 these days. The TC64 has a Vic20 core OTOH, so I can use a Vic20 right from my C64 keyboard. That core is pretty much Alpha with major limitations, but it works for playing Megacart games. I hope the core matures in the future so I don't even have to think about owning one.

    Quote:

    "Authenticity": (as in "Why would I use this instead of software emulator?") - Both emulate 1541 (or some other) drive. Chameleon can emulate the entire C64 in FPGA, BUT even when connected to C64, the CPU is always emulated. So I'd say: - 1541U2 definitely more authentic.


    I only use in cart mode. The real C64 is mirrored in the FPGA and synced. How is this not authentic? You can use all original ports and I/O, with the exception of the cassette port. In cart mode it is an expansion, period. You can't compare to something like an FPGA arcade.

    As for your authentic argument, it is pretty silly. The 1541U is FPGA based and emulates a 6502. I guess you forget the 1541 has it's own CPU. If the TC64 isn't authentic by your criteria, neither is the 1541U.

    Quote:

    Future proof: The source code for 1541 Ultimate is open. Not exactly sure about Chameleon, but at least some fpga cores are open. From experience, this is VERY important in "Jens hardware", since sometimes promised features just are never finished (or released only for the next version hardware)


    From my experience the TC64 is a finished project. Future updates would be a plus, but not really needed. I would *REALLY* like to see some of the additional cores updated, but those are mostly 3rd party and open. We just need need some developers to get interested. Some of the cores are really mature already.


    Quote:

    So what superior features am I missing?


    Did you look at the feature list? :-D

    Quote:

    Yes, I know there's (SuperCPU incompatible) turbo, but that's something I can do with software emulators. If it's going to be based on guesstimates about the internal functionality of hardware, I don't think there's much difference if the emulation is done in software or FPGA. VGA out? My Raspberry Pi has HDMI with software emulator based on the exact same assumptions on VIC-2 internals.


    Not sure I am following you here, you are all over the place. Yes there is a turbo, not it isn't SUperCPU compatible. For most people, this is a plus. In turbo mode the SuperCPU breaks 99% of games and a number of fast loaders. The TC64 turbo breaks almost nothing.

    You are hung up on the FPGA of the TC64, but not the one on your 1541U. Odd. You don't have to use the VGA out with 64 mode. You can use your old 1702 monitor from the original port. Your Raspberi Pi doesn't have a Vic-II chip or a SID chip. Nor does it have CIA or anything else. You are comparing apples and oranges. I don't think you quite understand how things work in cart mode. This is not the same as a Raspberry Pi with a Keyrah, the very suggestion is laughable.

    Quote:

    And as for Jens, has everyone already forgotten about him angrily dropping all (promised) MorphOS support, due to some disagreements with Genesi? You know, the same Genesi that MorphOS development team also had disagreements with...


    I vaguely remember him dropping official Catweasel support of something. I was bummed at the time, but don't really care IMO. Companies and individuals have falling outs all the time. I only care when they act illegally, blatantly unethically or excessively anti-competitively (see HYPErion). Jens has a falling out with HYPErion too at one point IIRC. Jens and Jeri Elsworth really don't get along these days. I generally don't like to pick sides, unless something is really egregious.

    Back on the TC64 vs 1541U.

    Easyflash support - The TC64 has it, the 1541U sort-of does but no write support. That's a show stopper for me. I can't save my game or high scores?

    Turbo support - You dismiss it, but it is a wonderful feature. I was leery when I heard it was faster in practice than a SuperCPU at 20Mhz, but in usage I am finding this to be true in many cases. The turbo also includes illegal opcodes, so very little breaks unlike SuperCPU. I do more than gaming so this is a HUGE plus for me. The speed is great! You can also dial in speed to where you want it, it is not a binary option. You can also de-accelerate if you so wish.

    1351 emulation - Using a mouse on the breakout PS/2 port works flawless for me, freeing up the joystick posts.

    Custom ROMs - you can load custom ROMS instead of using the built-in ROMs. Great for switching ROMs without wearing out DIP sockets.

    Core support - Even in cart mode you can load additional cores, such as Amiga, Atari 800XL, PC Engine etc that are very mature. To do the same as a 1451U owner you would have to buy something like a FPGA arcade and dedicate desk space for 2 totally different systems. This can get costly and desk space is a premium for retro lovers.

    There is no comparison between the 2 for me. I suppose for someone who is only an occasional C64 gamer maybe the 1541U is just fine, but I like to do a lot more than that.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 07.09.2016 - 14:58 ]
  • »07.09.16 - 16:56
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1261 from 2003/4/13
    @Jupp3

    Here are some examples, videoes I made using a PC TV/Video capture card hooked directly to the original A/V output on my C64. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think a 1541U user could do any of these.

    Commodore 64 Battle Chess Easyflash in turbo mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZr7F9moCr8

    3D Pool Game on Commodore 64 in turbo mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw7Th5Kv7u0

    Printmaster Plus in turbo mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQZ0pFiihmQ

    Motorhead - Orgasmatron full song on a C64 w/8580 SID(8bit 48Khz):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBY087IfWPs

    [ Edited by redrumloa 07.09.2016 - 15:14 ]
  • »07.09.16 - 17:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 421 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Jupp3 wrote:
    And as for Jens, has everyone already forgotten about him angrily dropping all (promised) MorphOS support, due to some disagreements with Genesi? You know, the same Genesi that MorphOS development team also had disagreements with...


    It was something to do with a taxi fare or stall fee, AFAIR. I don't know whether Jens was in the right or in the wrong, but his behaviour at the show where it happened was childish and unacceptable, according to neutral observers. Apparently he sat and mumbled and spat pithy comments -- all night.

    This led to him declaring that MorphOS would not be supported on the Catweasel, which is ironic since MorphOS and Amithlon are the only operating systems to support it natively as a true drive (via OpenPCI), and MorphOS is the only platform where Frodo (or indeed anything else??) can use the SID chip. I know this because I sat with itix for three hours while he remotely gave me betas to try on mine until one worked.

    It is also ironic because Jens never supports any platform with software ever. His products like the Catweasel go forgotten or with most of their features unused.

    [ Edited by KennyR 07.09.2016 - 21:12 ]
  • »07.09.16 - 18:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Jens has a falling out with HYPErion too at one point IIRC.

    Any details?
  • »07.09.16 - 20:19
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  • rob
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 95 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Jens has a falling out with HYPErion too at one point IIRC.

    Any details?


    Never heard of it, and unless it happened after March 2013 then it's clearly water under the bridge.

    https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/hyperion-and-individual-computers-sign-license-agreement.html
  • »07.09.16 - 21:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 421 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Jens has a falling out with HYPErion too at one point IIRC.

    Any details?


    Oh man. Imagine Hermans and Jens in a room together: the asshole quotient would go nuclear.
  • »07.09.16 - 21:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1261 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Jens has a falling out with HYPErion too at one point IIRC.

    Any details?


    Never heard of it, and unless it happened after March 2013 then it's clearly water under the bridge.

    https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/hyperion-and-individual-computers-sign-license-agreement.html


    Yes it would have been before that. I don't have a link handy, I don't keep a link archive :-) IIRC he wasn't happy with them at one point and called them amateurs. I think he was negotiating with them at one point and gave up. I don't remember where he made these statements, but I'm sure it was discussed at the time on Moobunny which is now locked down.
  • »07.09.16 - 21:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > IIRC he wasn't happy with them at one point and called them amateurs.
    > I think he was negotiating with them at one point and gave up. I don't
    > remember where he made these statements

    I only remember such incident with Amiga Inc., from which Jens sought to license the Kickstart v1.3 binary. He insisted on being shown proof of ownership beforehand.

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3980#53553

    Needless to say that nothing came of it :-)
  • »07.09.16 - 22:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Imagine Hermans and Jens in a room together

    Happened multiple times already:

    - Benelux Amiga Show 2001 (Rotterdam, Netherlands)
    - Amiga 2001 (Cologne, Germany)
    - AmiWest 2003
    - AmiGBG 2004 (Gothenburg, Sweden)
    - AmiWest 2004
    - AmiWest 2010

    ...just to mention the events I could find quickly.
  • »07.09.16 - 22:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1192 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    The TC64 has a USB connector also, but it is not for expandability, it is for connecting to a PC.

    Nice to hear that TC64 has USB aswell, would it be possible to use that with USB devices (ethernet, midi, massstorage, whatever)? That would definitely make it a LOT more useful hardware. My assumtion that this was missing was the #1 reason, that made TC64 less useful to me (compared to 1541U2)

    Quote:

    The TC64 does have IR and is bundled with a CDTV remote. The breakout cable does give a PS/2 mouse and a PS/2 keyboard.

    Sounds quite useless, but mentioned those anyway. Of course PS/2 (or USB) is kind of must, if used without a C64.

    Quote:

    The "custom slot" is not so custom, it is an Amiga 1200 style clockport. The most popular use is RR-Net ethernet and mechanically inside the case this is what it was designed for. It is confirmed that the Silver Surfer Serial Adapter works and I suspect other devices probably would if anyone bothered to try them (aka MP3@64). There is even a Minimig core that supports Silver Surfer.

    I know what it is. The point was, you can't just get a standard $5 USB ethernet adapter and use that.

    There definitely isn't serial port in 1541U2, but of course, support could be added for USB serial adapter (but don't see much point in that - except that MIDI would be really nice, and quite similar)

    Quote:


    Most of the expandability is internally. The TC64 has features the 1541U simple does not. Features can be added at anytime. It is already like a swiss army knife.

    What does it offer for C64 user, that 1541 Ultimate doesn't? (Yes turbo, but in addition to that)

    And just like TC64, 1541 Ultimate 2 also has FPGA, and there's already f.ex. SID emulator and multichannel sample player for it. And yes, TC64 can do it too, I guess.

    Quote:

    Quote:

    "Authenticity": (as in "Why would I use this instead of software emulator?") - Both emulate 1541 (or some other) drive. Chameleon can emulate the entire C64 in FPGA, BUT even when connected to C64, the CPU is always emulated. So I'd say: - 1541U2 definitely more authentic.


    I only use in cart mode. The real C64 is mirrored in the FPGA and synced. How is this not authentic? You can use all original ports and I/O, with the exception of the cassette port. In cart mode it is an expansion, period. You can't compare to something like an FPGA arcade.

    As for your authentic argument, it is pretty silly. The 1541U is FPGA based and emulates a 6502. I guess you forget the 1541 has it's own CPU. If the TC64 isn't authentic by your criteria, neither is the 1541U.

    Yes, both emulate the CPU's (and other functionality) in attached drives. But in addition to that, with TC64, the CPU always runs on FPGA. I'd say 1541U2 and TC64 are authentic (but with rather different feature sets), but TC64 "reduces the authenticity of the C64 while it's plugged in"


    Quote:

    Quote:

    Future proof: The source code for 1541 Ultimate is open. Not exactly sure about Chameleon, but at least some fpga cores are open. From experience, this is VERY important in "Jens hardware", since sometimes promised features just are never finished (or released only for the next version hardware)


    From my experience the TC64 is a finished project. Future updates would be a plus, but not really needed. I would *REALLY* like to see some of the additional cores updated, but those are mostly 3rd party and open. We just need need some developers to get interested. Some of the cores are really mature already.

    Nice to hear. I think there was some sync issue for quite a long time, but nice if it's finally fixed.

    1541 Ultimate was also quite finished project from the beginning, but if the project is open source, anyone can expand it "beyond the original specs". And like you said, many cores are open, and thus, possible to improve.

    Quote:

    Quote:

    So what superior features am I missing?


    Did you look at the feature list? :-D

    Yes, to me it was basically:
    -Bunch of connectors useless to me (PS/2, IR, clock port...)
    -Ability to run fpga cores that emulate other systems (this was comparing products as C64 expansions - although mentioned other commodore compatibility)
    -Being able to use the (always) emulated CPU in turbo mode, as you can do with software emulators.
    -Being able to output emulated av output from different connectors.

    ...and that's pretty much it.

    Quote:

    You are hung up on the FPGA of the TC64, but not the one on your 1541U. Odd. You don't have to use the VGA out with 64 mode. You can use your old 1702 monitor from the original port.

    And I can... Well, remove the TC64, if I want to use the real CPU. Sure.

    Quote:

    Your Raspberi Pi doesn't have a Vic-II chip or a SID chip. Nor does it have CIA or anything else. You are comparing apples and oranges. I don't think you quite understand how things work in cart
    mode.

    As far as I know, most parts run in tandem emulated + real (sid, vic2...) while some (CPU) are always emulated. Correct me if I'm wrong?

    And sure, for most people, it's more important to have sid + vic2 real, rather than the cpu.

    Quote:

    This is not the same as a Raspberry Pi with a Keyrah, the very suggestion is laughable.

    Agreed 100%. KeyRah joystick ports are WAY too slow to be used for any gaming, despite being advertised otherwise.

    Quote:

    Quote:

    And as for Jens, has everyone already forgotten about him angrily dropping all (promised) MorphOS support, due to some disagreements with Genesi? You know, the same Genesi that MorphOS development team also had disagreements with...


    I vaguely remember him dropping official Catweasel support of something. I was bummed at the time, but don't really care IMO. Companies and individuals have falling outs all the time. I only care when they act illegally, blatantly unethically or excessively anti-competitively (see HYPErion). Jens has a falling out with HYPErion too at one point IIRC. Jens and Jeri Elsworth really don't get along these days. I generally don't like to pick sides, unless something is really egregious.

    Well, the point was, it was kind of "advertised as safe buy for MorphOS users, as there will be (proper) support", and then it was suddenly just canceled.

    Quote:


    Easyflash support - The TC64 has it, the 1541U sort-of does but no write support. That's a show stopper for me. I can't save my game or high scores?

    Yes, long time ago I noticed that this wasn't yet implemented at that point. No idea if it's been fixed already though, have been too busy to update lately...

    Quote:

    1351 emulation - Using a mouse on the breakout PS/2 port works flawless for me, freeing up the joystick posts.

    That is actually rather neat idea, I didn't even consider. Definitely makes PS/2 useful in "cart mode".

    Quote:

    Core support - Even in cart mode you can load additional cores, such as Amiga, Atari 800XL, PC Engine etc that are very mature. To do the same as a 1451U owner you would have to buy something like a FPGA arcade and dedicate desk space for 2 totally different systems. This can get costly and desk space is a premium for retro lovers.

    Well, life is always about choices... If you want something "more authentic", it's often more restricted in some ways. And going further to another direction, you probably also agree that it would be even easier to get C64 Forever and such for computer you already have.

    Quite often for me, it's the "device itself" that's real, but f.ex. disk drive or module (PowerPak for NES, MegaFlashRom on MSX etc.) isn't.

    Of course it's often impossible to get each device as "real" - I have partially given up on that - if the FPGA implementation will be based on the assumptions on unknown chip internals, is it really significantly more "real" than 100% software emulation based on the exact same assumptions?

    As for FPGA cores, I have CommodoreOne for those.

    Of course 1541 Ultimate definitely isn't "authentic" either, but C64 it gets connected to is.

    And to be 100% honest, quite a large part of my "C64 time" is on emulator anyway. Why? - A lot of that is development time, and it's often so much faster to "just run the code in vice", and then you also have WAY better ml monitor than what f.ex. Action Replays offer (memory watchpoints etc.)

    Of course it's important to test on real hardware aswell (I'll let others do testing on Chameleon and such), and it's definitely nice to be able to send in image files via ethernet (Also possible with TC)

    Was actually doing that already with Retro Replay, before 1541 Ultimate finally arrived to raise the feature set in one go :-)
  • »07.09.16 - 23:39
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1192 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    @Jupp3

    Here are some examples, videoes I made using a PC TV/Video capture card hooked directly to the original A/V output on my C64. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think a 1541U user could do any of these.

    Commodore 64 Battle Chess Easyflash in turbo mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZr7F9moCr8

    3D Pool Game on Commodore 64 in turbo mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw7Th5Kv7u0

    Printmaster Plus in turbo mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQZ0pFiihmQ


    Well, these obviously require software (or hardware) that can emulate faster CPU (of course real CPU could work too, but TC64 lacks that).

    I find the idea somewhat interesting on technical level, and I'm quite surprised, how many C64 programs seem to run rather "cleanly" with turbo mode without any modifications (I assume).

    Of course at this point, one would need to accept that "This is no longer on C64", fine by me, but I definitely have more respect for everything, that runs properly on real C64.

    Probably should try out some on emulators some day.

    Maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned with "This is how it was released", and that being the "correct" speed. And if it's too slow, the game just sucks :-D

    Quote:

    Motorhead - Orgasmatron full song on a C64 w/8580 SID(8bit 48Khz):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBY087IfWPs


    Specs for the sample player:
    -Up to 7 voices of sampled audio simultaneously
    -Accessible through I/O space
    -8- or 16-bit samples
    -up to 48 kHz sample rate

    (This is through the cart's own audio out, mind you)

    Emulated SIDs (max. 2) can have max. 8 voices each.

    As for doing it via "native" output, not sure, if it would be doable with REU. Well, C64 can play 1MHz 4bit samples with just REU :-P

    But the biggest reason I prefer 1541 Ultimate series, they're in no way controlled by Jens. And don't even try to pretend there wouldn't be more than enough reasons for that :-D

    Oh, and about "SuperCPU incompatibility being a pro" - earlier I was wondering if there was some technical reason, why the cart couldn't do both (still don't know) - Metal Dust is actually quite a good game!

    [ Edited by Jupp3 08.09.2016 - 20:09 ]
  • »07.09.16 - 23:58
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4700 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Jens has a falling out with HYPErion too at one point IIRC.

    Any details?


    Oh man. Imagine Hermans and Jens in a room together: the asshole quotient would go nuclear.


    +1 ;)

    Edit - Better yet, Hermans, Jens, and Gunnar von Boehn in the same room.
    Now there would be a combination.
    A regular triumvirate of German (or in the case of Hermans, near German)egos.



    [ Edited by Jim 07.10.2016 - 15:46 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.10.16 - 23:57
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Are OS4 users losing their shit?

    Wrong thread? As has been reported in this thread, Jens Schönfeld got a "Commodore" trademark license. And he probably doesn't have an "Amiga" trademark license. That's all to the story, I guess.
  • »07.10.16 - 07:31
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1261 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Are OS4 users losing their shit?
    Wrong thread?



    Huh? No, did you miss the Commodore A1200 Reloaded I quoted? A1200 is Amiga 1200.

    Quote:

    As has been reported in this thread, Jens Schönfeld got a "Commodore" trademark license. And he probably doesn't have an "Amiga" trademark license. That's all to the story, I guess.


    I know it has the Commodore brand, but it is an reverse engineered new Amiga 1200 motherboard. When I posted my reply apparently this information was not yet news and hadn't spread whatsoever. It seems to be kinda-sorta spreading now on AWN, as of today. The thread is new but we have the first example of what I thought would happen:

    I think this community is becoming more and more mad over decades. I'm wondering what a psychologist would say of this kind of obsession.

    And signature line?

    X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE. Be authentic

    We'll likely see more of this. There is a certain segment of that Kommunity who will find Jens' work a serious threat to their vision of "teh true".

    [ Edited by redrumloa 07.10.2016 - 20:23 ]
  • »07.10.16 - 22:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Are OS4 users losing their shit?

    >> Wrong thread?

    > No, did you miss the Commodore A1200 Reloaded I quoted? A1200 is Amiga 1200.

    No, I just missed (until your comment, that is) the discussion of OS4 or its users in this thread.

    > it is an reverse engineered new Amiga 1200 motherboard. When I posted my reply
    > apparently this information was not yet news and hadn't spread whatsoever.

    What's the news exactly, except from the name change originally reported 3 weeks ago? Technically, nothing seems to have changed from what was announced 1.25 years ago.

    http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Amiga_reloaded

    > I think this community is becoming more and more mad over decades.
    > I'm wondering what a psychologist would say of this kind of obsession.
    > So it's Commodore A1200 Reloaded, NOT Commodore Amiga A1200 Reloaded.
    > It's completely two different things. ;-)

    I read this comment as a sarcastic mocking of the irrational focus on the "Amiga" name displayed by some.

    > And signature line? X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE. Be authentic

    So what?

    > We'll likely see more of this.

    I hope so.

    > There is a certain segment of that Kommunity who will find Jens'
    > work a serious threat to their vision of "teh true".

    Any real examples of this?
  • »07.10.16 - 23:00
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4700 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    I read this comment as a sarcastic mocking of the irrational focus on the "Amiga" name displayed by some.


    That would seem to be the point, why pay Bill for the only asset he has left (the name)?
    Since we have never let the issue of what is 'real' affect us, its about time the rest of the community caught up.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.10.16 - 11:38
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 421 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    We'll likely see more of this. There is a certain segment of that Kommunity who will find Jens' work a serious threat to their vision of "teh true".


    I doubt it. More likely it'll go the same way as all the rest of Jens' stuff: something very interesting that sells initially well, gets next to no software support, and is abandoned and disappears with nary a trace as Jens moves onto the next shiny thing to catch his interests.
  • »14.09.18 - 13:39
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 229 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    KennyR schrieb:
    I doubt it. More likely it'll go the same way as all the rest of Jens' stuff: something very interesting that sells initially well, gets next to no software support, and is abandoned and disappears with nary a trace as Jens moves onto the next shiny thing to catch his interests.

    Hmm... Can't argue that my ACA123x or the Indivision do not work?? They do so for some years now.
    Talos II Secure Workstation. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.11 / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.1.4]
  • »14.09.18 - 14:05
    Profile