Which Apple Computer would you reccomend
  • Just looking around
    amigamia
    Posts: 18 from 2011/9/22
    Hey Everyone,

    I would like to know what everyone thinks about which apple computer I should keep for my morphOS. I currently own an

    -iBook G4 with 1.42Ghz and 2GB RAM and 60GB HDD
    -PowerBook G4 1.67Ghz with 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD
    -PowerMac G4 MDD with dual 1.25Ghz Proc, 1GB Ram and 128GB HDD. (With an NVIDIA Card but I would need to update that to an ATI to host MorphOS)

    Which one would you choose and why?
  • »26.08.16 - 02:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2737 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    amigamia wrote:
    Hey Everyone,

    I would like to know what everyone thinks about which apple computer I should keep for my morphOS. I currently own an

    -iBook G4 with 1.42Ghz and 2GB RAM and 60GB HDD
    -PowerBook G4 1.67Ghz with 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD
    -PowerMac G4 MDD with dual 1.25Ghz Proc, 1GB Ram and 128GB HDD. (With an NVIDIA Card but I would need to update that to an ATI to host MorphOS)

    Which one would you choose and why?


    I would keep the PowerBook and the G4 MDD PowerMac, and do what I did, find a single G4 1.25GHz CPU module for the MDD PowerMac, and over-clock it from 1.25GHz to 1.5GHz. This gives you a single core, single CPU G4 system that is the same speed as the fastest G4 MacMini, but with all the expansion room and great case design of the MDD PowerMac. I believe that some people have even over-clocked the 1.25GHz G4 to 1.67GHz, just like the clock rate of the fastest stock G4 PowerBook models, but that is slightly more work, and has a higher risk of burning up the CPU, or causing it to fail earlier, than if you only over-clock to 1.5GHz. The over-clocking to 1.5GHz was a very simple 5 minute solder job of removing one component, that even I accomplished very easily, and I have not soldered much since 1972 to 1974, during my High School electronics classes.

    If there was not such a big difference in clock rate and "potential" processing power between my dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac, and my single CPU 1.5GHz G4 MDD PowerMac, I would get rid of the G5 for the following reasons:

    Less noise from case fans (I replaced the stock fan for the CPU/heat-sink, with a "Silent" type fan)
    Less power consumption (don't know the exact numbers, but will check with Amp meter some day to find out)
    Less heat produced (2x-G5s at almost 2x clock rate of 1x-1.5GHz G4 probably makes 3 to 4 times the heat)
    No liquid cooling (no worrying about leaks onto the main board and/or PSU, killing the system)
    Easier/Quicker case access (love the fold down case door with all the expansion slots easier to access)
    More exterior drive bays (I have a DVDRW & ZIP optical drives accessible at front exterior of the case)
    More interior drive bays (four interior 3.5=inch hdd bays, double the number for the G5)

    Even with the almost doubled clock rate of the G5 PowerMac, I don't think it runs anywhere close to twice as fast for running MorphOS software, and I am tempted to sell the G5. The G5 does have the advantage of using SATA for the hard drive controller, so it is easier to find and use modern hdd's. There are other advantages on the G5 PowerMac models, including more modern USB standard (I think), and Firewire 800, instead of 400 (IIRC), but MorphOS support for Firewire seems limited, and there aren't many Firewire products, even for when you want to run MacOSX, or Linux. On the topic of running MacOSX and/or Linux, this is where the Dual 2.7GHz G5 is going to blow the single 1.25GHz G4 out of the water, but my opinion is that if MorphOS users want to run Linux, they most likely will have one or more x86/x64 systems to run Linux on that will do the job much better and faster. The G5 also has a faster, more recent AGP slot for getting more performance out of the video cards, even if the same video card is properly modified to work in the G4 PowerMac, by taping certain traces on the card edge connector.

    Anyway, you don't have a G5 PowerMac, but my point in bringing it up is, unless you absolutely have to have the fastest possible PPC MorphOS experience, I would suggest to anyone that they NOT purchase a G5 PowerMac for running MorphOS, when they already own a MDD G4 PowerMac, and/or the 1.67GHz G4 PowerBook, which will do almost everything that the G5 PowerMac can do, while running MorphOS. Wait for the x64 port of MorphOS if the fastest speed is important to you.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »26.08.16 - 05:13
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    jPV
    Posts: 1677 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    amigamia wrote:
    -iBook G4 with 1.42Ghz and 2GB RAM and 60GB HDD

    Although this is a quite fast machine, I wouldn't keep this if you have to get rid of something. On negative sides it has small resolution, left/right shift and command keys aren't separated causing problems with keyboard shortcuts, and at least I have small graphical glitches with such a machine. I would only recommend iBook if you'd want really small portable machine and you'd have a 12" version...

    Quote:

    -PowerBook G4 1.67Ghz with 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD

    I'd recommend to keep this, because it's about the fastest G4 machine you can get, it has proper resolution, and its keyboard and touchpad work well (those left/right keys are separated) and are the best supported ones in laptops. It also has CardBus slot for external WLAN if needed for signal strength for example. And more standard external display connector if better support comes some day.

    Quote:

    -PowerMac G4 MDD with dual 1.25Ghz Proc, 1GB Ram and 128GB HDD. (With an NVIDIA Card but I would need to update that to an ATI to host MorphOS)

    This isn't the fastest machine you can get, but it has expandability. Although that isn't necessarily needed with today's built-in stuff. Depends what you want and can you stand big boxes still. If you're interested older Amiga 3D stuff using Warp3D, this is your chance to get supported graphics card for that. And if you want to use bigger external monitors.
  • »26.08.16 - 06:22
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4913 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    Quote:

    amigamia wrote:
    -iBook G4 with 1.42Ghz and 2GB RAM and 60GB HDD

    Although this is a quite fast machine, I wouldn't keep this if you have to get rid of something. On negative sides it has small resolution, left/right shift and command keys aren't separated causing problems with keyboard shortcuts, and at least I have small graphical glitches with such a machine. I would only recommend iBook if you'd want really small portable machine and you'd have a 12" version...



    I have one of those and it works quite well.
    I have never had graphics glitches with it. Then again, the 1.42 GHz iBook has a better gpu than slower iBooks.
    BTW, the 1.42 GHz iBook is a 14 inch.

    Frankly, I'm with you on your recommendation though. Of the two laptops, the PowerBook is definitely superior.

    The PowerMac G4 MDD...hmm. Well I had a lot of good experiences with G4 models.
    I am not sure I'd recommend one as the laptops are more convenient. The first R400 video card I owned was installed in a G4, but I wouldn't recommend anything above a Radeon 9800, so the Powerbook has almost as powerful graphics (it probably only has 64MB of vram, but that is still useable).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.08.16 - 09:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1058 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Go for PB :)
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »26.08.16 - 09:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 380 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Go for the PowerBook G4 and never look back. ;-)

    Obviously it has got the fastest G4 CPU, your model has got minimum 64 MiB VRAM, flawless out-of-the-box suppport in MorphOS, great support in Linux after some tweaking. If it's a PB 5,8 you even get full support in current Linux without tweaking (only installation of WLAN + audio-drivers needed).

    Also spare parts are available at reasonable prices and you'll find good repair guides on the net (which holds true for almost all PPC-Macs).
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.13 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »26.08.16 - 10:29
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4913 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Go for the PowerBook G4 and never look back. ;-)

    Obviously it has got the fastest G4 CPU, your model has got minimum 64 MiB VRAM, flawless out-of-the-box suppport in MorphOS, great support in Linux after some tweaking. If it's a PB 5,8 you even get full support in current Linux without tweaking (only installation of WLAN + audio-drivers needed).

    Also spare parts are available at reasonable prices and you'll find good repair guides on the net (which holds true for almost all PPC-Macs).


    Actually, the processors that make up what Apple called the G4 series vary bit in performance per MHz, then there are the differences in cache memory.
    For example, a 7455 with an L3 cache performs as well as a faster 7447 without an L3 cache.
    So its not that straight forward.

    But the PowerBook would probably have a slight edge, AND its in a sturdier case, with a better keyboard, and at least twice the vram (if I remember right, in the case of the model Yasu bought, four times as much vram).

    ...and a bigger screen (although that is not my personal preference, I like smaller form factors - I can hold my 12" Lenovo i7 laptop with one hand).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.08.16 - 18:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11055 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the processors that make up what Apple called the G4 series vary bit in performance
    > per MHz, then there are the differences in cache memory. For example, a 7455 with
    > an L3 cache performs as well as a faster 7447 without an L3 cache. So its not that
    > straight forward. But the PowerBook would probably have a slight edge

    Yes, without doubt, as his PowerBook and iBook have the same generation and type of G4 without L3 cache, with the G4 in his PowerBook being clocked higher.

    Btw, there are also other opinions regarding the PowerBook G4 vs. iBook G4 decision:

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=8503&start=29
  • »26.08.16 - 19:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    You can also turn the Powerbook (and the Ibook I've been told) into a desktop by connecting it to a monitor with DVI (VGA for the Ibook I'm told).
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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    My MorphOS blog
  • »26.08.16 - 20:47
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4913 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the processors that make up what Apple called the G4 series vary bit in performance
    > per MHz, then there are the differences in cache memory. For example, a 7455 with
    > an L3 cache performs as well as a faster 7447 without an L3 cache. So its not that
    > straight forward. But the PowerBook would probably have a slight edge

    Yes, without doubt, as his PowerBook and iBook have the same generation and type of G4 without L3 cache, with the G4 in his PowerBook being clocked higher.

    Btw, there are also other opinions regarding the PowerBook G4 vs. iBook G4 decision:

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=8503&start=29


    Mag's comment is a little off there (I can see why you would question it).
    However, the iBook (which does have a less sturdy look and feel than the PowerBook) is lighter and its plastic case more flexible (IF it doesn't crack), so iBooks do seem to survive reasonably well.
    Mine still works and I am hard on equipment (I have had to replace one key switch).

    Hey, I like it (its compact).
    But it is slower and it has less vram.
    Also, the models below the 1.42 MHz variant use, I believe, the Radeon 9200 gpu.

    And yes, the iBook and the Powerbook are both 7447 based, the PowerMac G4 systems can use a variety of 74XX cpus with different cache configurations depending on the model and whether or not it has a third party cpu card.

    So...if you are into buying over priced accelerator cards, the PowerMac could run faster than the laptops (with options for up to a 2.0 GHz 7448).
    And you could shoehorn in an R400 or R500 video card, it will work, but I wouldn't recommend it.

    Anyway...like most of us have stated, the PowerBook is still probably the best choice.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.08.16 - 22:48
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  • Just looking around
    amigamia
    Posts: 18 from 2011/9/22
    PowerBook it is then. Thanks everyone.

    I will probably put the rest up for sale as I can't keep all of them around unless you think there is a reason to keep the iBook or the PowerMac?



    [ Edited by amigamia 26.08.2016 - 22:34 ]
  • »27.08.16 - 01:26
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11055 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the models below the 1.42 MHz variant use, I believe, the Radeon 9200 gpu.

    The older models, yes. The 1.33 GHz 12" variant uses the same Radeon 9550.

    > if you are into buying over priced accelerator cards, the PowerMac could run
    > faster than the laptops (with options for up to a 2.0 GHz 7448).

    With the qualifier that the MDDs (like that of the thread opener) can only be upgraded up to (dual) 1.8 GHz 7447A.
  • »27.08.16 - 06:10
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4913 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >With the qualifier that the MDDs (like that of the thread opener) can only be upgraded up to (dual) 1.8 GHz 7447A.

    Yep, only older PowerMac G4's will accept 7448 upgrades.
    So...as the original poster has realized by now...we circle back again to the PowerBook.
    Thank, btw, for the information about the 1.33 GHz iBook's gpu.
    My current iBook is a 14", and I would be willing to trade a little speed for a smaller laptop.

    My first PowerMac was a Quicksilver model, and at 9333 MHz it still had enough power to run MorphOS quite well.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.08.16 - 15:50
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