JIT JS Bounty - update
  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> The Leopard WebKit author asks: [...]

    > Why he's so interested in this?

    Bigfoot's JavaScriptCore JIT compiler for PPC should also be usable with the Leopard WebKit browser (or any other WebKit-based browser on any PPC OS).


    Neat that something Mark is doing for our little "hobbyist" oriented OS could be applied to other operating systems that run on the same ISA.

    Maybe someone should have posted to that forum that the work would be done in two weeks. ;-)
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.12.16 - 12:40
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Hi

    As I left using MorphOS some time ago and I don't think this bounty will be fulfilled any time soon I want to ask questions to the donors (I hope most of you are still active). What should I do with the money collected? I don't want to hold it anymore.

    [ Edited by pampers 19.04.2018 - 18:18 ]
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »19.04.18 - 18:17
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ pampers

    Assuming that the project may still get finished afterall, perhaps the funds and project could be moved to WArMUP bounties?
  • »19.04.18 - 19:18
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Hi

    As I left using MorphOS some time ago and I don't think this bounty will be fulfilled any time soon I want to ask questions to the donors (I hope most of you are still active). What should I do with the money collected? I don't want to hold it anymore.


    Well considering who is working on it, I'd just send it to him.
    Unless anyone objects?

    And Andre's suggestion makes sense.

    How close to the goal was the funding?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.04.18 - 20:22
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > considering who is working on it

    Is anybody? I‘ve not read any update in over 2 years.

    > How close to the goal was the funding?

    111% according to the 2nd link in posting #1 of this thread.
  • »19.04.18 - 21:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1008 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Hi

    As I left using MorphOS some time ago and I don't think this bounty will be fulfilled any time soon I want to ask questions to the donors (I hope most of you are still active). What should I do with the money collected? I don't want to hold it anymore.


    I'll take my money back. Been far too long.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »19.04.18 - 22:57
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > considering who is working on it

    Is anybody? I‘ve not read any update in over 2 years.

    > How close to the goal was the funding?

    111% according to the 2nd link in posting #1 of this thread.



    Yep, there was somebody working on it, but I haven't brought it up in about that long.
    Maybe they're worried about being sued by Oracle.

    I'm not too fond of them Oracle myself, they killed Open Solaris and Sun kind of boring these days.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.04.18 - 01:26
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> considering who is working on it

    >> Is anybody?

    > Yep, there was somebody working on it

    I take this as a 'no' to my question whether anybody is working on it.

    >> I‘ve not read any update in over 2 years.

    > I haven't brought it up in about that long.

    Actually, you made your last comment in this very thread a year later. Nobody was waiting for an update from you, I think, but rather from the one who is or was working on it ;-)

    > Maybe they're worried about being sued by Oracle.

    Who is "they"? And what has Oracle to do with anything this thread is about?
  • »20.04.18 - 12:38
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    @ pampers

    Assuming that the project may still get finished afterall, perhaps the funds and project could be moved to WArMUP bounties?


    I don't mind as long as donors doesn't mind.

    @Intuition

    Here is the donor list, can you please tell me which payment is yours and provide me refund details?

    http://morphos.pl/jit-js-dla-odyssey-web-browser/
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »20.04.18 - 14:40
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    @ pampers

    Assuming that the project may still get finished afterall, perhaps the funds and project could be moved to WArMUP bounties?


    I don't mind as long as donors doesn't mind.

    @Intuition

    Here is the donor list, can you please tell me which payment is yours and provide me refund details?

    http://morphos.pl/jit-js-dla-odyssey-web-browser/


    Sounds like the direction to go, Wiktor.
    Considerate of you to take this on one at a time, considering the time you'll have to take and the fact that you're no longer actively engaged in the community.

    And, btw, I for one miss your presence.

    @ Andreas, again, assume what you will.
    I don't know, I know who was, and I'm not asking, and I'm not speculating or making assumptions.

    Frankly, a Java free environment would be preferable to me, rather than one in which Oracle collects licensing payments from everyone for the API of a product it acquired in the purchase of a better company.

    No reliance on Java, Flash, or tightly controlled graphics APIs.
    Its not that I mind reasonable license terms, its the "vulturing" for profit by lazy corporations that bothers me.


    [ Edited by Jim 20.04.2018 - 10:34 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.04.18 - 15:32
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>>> considering who is working on it

    >>>> Is anybody?

    >>> Yep, there was somebody working on it

    >> I take this as a 'no' to my question whether anybody is working on it.

    > I know who was

    Everybody knows who was (as opposed to ‚is‘), it‘s right in this very thread after all. Hence my question (not necessarily directed at you) still stands: Is anybody?

    >>> Maybe they're worried about being sued by Oracle.

    >> Who is "they"? And what has Oracle to do with anything this thread is about?

    > a Java free environment would be preferable to me

    A JavaScript JIT compiler is no less Java-free than a JavaScript interpreter.

    > rather than one in which Oracle collects licensing payments from everyone for the API

    Oracle collects licensing payments for the JavaScript API? Where can I read up on this?
    What Oracle apparently does is going after software that uses Oracle‘s "JavaScript" trademark in a way that Oracle deems confusing:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/18/oracle_ios_app_takedown_javascript/

    However, a trademark is not an API, and no JavaScript JIT compiler or interpreter has to use that trademark in its name, and most don‘t actually (albeit I surely wouldn‘t consider using the trademark for a JavaScript implementation confusing):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ECMAScript_engines

    WebKit uses the JavaScriptCore engine (JIT compiler and interpreter), which contains the trademark. As Oracle doesn‘t seem to take offence with that, it‘s unlikely that they would as soon as the JavaScriptCore JIT compiler is created for big-endian PPC32 of all architectures.
  • »20.04.18 - 21:33
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2504 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Thanks for your research/input/opinion, on this topic Andreas. I hope the community can find someone to complete this bounty, as I believe it could potentially help allow MorphOS users access to many Javascript dependent websites, and programs.

    I can't remember if this is one of the bounties that I donated toward, but if I did, I am okay with the money being transferred to the WarmUP Bounties, if the community can't find a programmer to resume work and complete the JIT JS Bounty project.

    I'll also voice my wish that Wiktor/Pampers, would return to the MorphOS community. Your presence is greatly missed.

    [ Edited by amigadave 20.04.2018 - 18:21 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »21.04.18 - 02:19
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I believe it could potentially help allow MorphOS users access to many
    > Javascript dependent websites, and programs.

    I‘m not sure a JIT compiler will allow access to more websites or programs than the existing interpreter. What it surely would do is running those websites or programs (or crash and burn) way faster than the current interpreter.

    >> Assuming that the project may still get finished afterall, perhaps
    >> the funds and project could be moved to WArMUP bounties?

    > I am okay with the money being transferred to the WarmUP Bounties, if the community
    > can't find a programmer to resume work and complete the JIT JS Bounty project.

    As I read ASiegel‘s idea, it is build on the premise "that the project may still get finished afterall", meaning that the donors can "find a programmer to resume work and complete the JIT JS Bounty project". Else it wouldn‘t make sense to transfer the funds AND project.
  • »21.04.18 - 09:53
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
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    >WebKit uses the JavaScriptCore engine (JIT compiler and interpreter), which contains the trademark. As Oracle doesn‘t seem to take offence with that, it‘s unlikely that they would...

    Thanks for the clarification. I just don't trust the company.
    Might just be bias, but Sun (alone) felt more like a partner and Oracle...keeps reminding me that everyone is just a licensee.

    >I'll also voice my wish that Wiktor/Pampers, would return to the MorphOS community.

    Well, his dissatisfaction seems not have been aimed at the OS itself, but more with a problem that dates back to our 68K history, the dearth of software available to us.

    One thing I remember quite clearly was his willingness to always explore the best hardware he could find for the OS.
    That, in part, exacerbated my dissatisfaction with my spotty memory in that when Andreas reminded me that the hi-res PowerBooks had 128MB of VRAM I had to slap my forehead.
    Because when the supplier Wiktor bought his from didn't offer a good shipping option to him, he had it shipped to me first and then I re-shipped it to him...with a weekend's delay to try it out. ;-)

    Really nice system, really good guy, and his explorations of new hardware kept me informed about what worked best, from upgraded G5 processors, to the hi-res Powerbook, to the X5000.

    But what we need to remember is that Pamper's dissatisfactions weren't based on our hardware, or its expense, it was the lack of software (at least that is the impression I got, I could be wrong, but if I am I can always count on our indexer to remind me where).

    Anytime we're focused on the OS, its features (current, desired, or targeted), or our supported hardware, I'm reminded of discussions with Wiktor about the software issue.

    Obviously JIT JS is important to the creation of a more functional browser, but a good browser is only one thing we need. Kudos to Andre for his efforts, editing is also vitally important, and there are so many other types of productivity related software we lag in.

    At the end of the last century, the problem was software availability. Twenty years later, its still the lack of software.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.04.18 - 14:23
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Thanks for some kind words in here but please keep this topic clean.

    So far 1 donor was refunded. I'm waiting another week and then will transfer the money over to Papiosaur and his bounty pool.

    If someone will be "late" and will request refund after that time, will do that our of my pocket.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »22.04.18 - 08:33
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > will transfer the money over to Papiosaur and his bounty pool.

    The money with the bounty (as suggested by ASiegel) or just the money?
  • »22.04.18 - 22:27
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > will transfer the money over to Papiosaur and his bounty pool.

    The money with the bounty (as suggested by ASiegel) or just the money?


    Good point, it should remain the same bounty.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.04.18 - 01:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > will transfer the money over to Papiosaur and his bounty pool.

    The money with the bounty (as suggested by ASiegel) or just the money?


    Is Papiosaur ready to open the same bounty? If he is then the whole bounty.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »23.04.18 - 09:05
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Papiosaur
    Posts: 1134 from 2003/4/10
    From: France
    Hi pampers,

    in first, i say thank you very much because you have realized many things for the MorphOS community and we lost a very good butterfly ;-) I hope you will come back in a near future ;-)

    I can open the same bouty of course and i can refund the money to the donor will be "late" but i need identities and paypal addresses please ;-)

    @bigfoot : do you think you will finalize this project ?
  • »23.04.18 - 09:54
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I can open the same bouty of course [...] but i need identities
    > and paypal addresses

    Just in case there might be legal issues with transferring "identities and paypal addresses" without donors' explicit consent, it could be a compromise to transfer the bounty with the money as a whole. Individual refunds wouldn't be possible this way, though (except as offered by pampers).
  • »23.04.18 - 12:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    @Papi

    Thanks for your interest. I will wait few more days and then will transfer you the money. So far 2 small donations were withdrawn. About the refunds, I will manage them as I said before.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »23.04.18 - 18:17
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    Crumb
    Posts: 700 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    @Papi

    Thanks for your interest. I will wait few more days and then will transfer you the money. So far 2 small donations were withdrawn. About the refunds, I will manage them as I said before.


    Hi, I'm Jaime and I prefer that my money is transfered to Bigfoot anyway, he worked a lot on it and I think he deserves it anyway.
  • »26.04.18 - 11:12
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    Develin
    Posts: 96 from 2003/4/19
    From: Karlstad, Sweden
    I'm also open for transfer my tiny sum to Mark aswell.
    I actually promised him cookies for over a decade so maybe this can cover some of the loss cookies over the years =)
  • »26.04.18 - 21:39
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    Develin wrote:
    I'm also open for transfer my tiny sum to Mark aswell.
    I actually promised him cookies for over a decade so maybe this can cover some of the loss cookies over the years =)


    I like what you and Jamie are thinking here Develin.
    Obviously the bulk of the finds have to sit somewhere until either the bounty is fullfilled or the original donors sign off on what they want done,
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.04.18 - 01:47
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