Discussion of the Tabor / A1222 mainboard
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4338 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Original topic title: No apologies for the 'Turd sandwhich'

    If it appeared to Andre's somewhat paranoid frame of mind that my intent was to bash another poster, he was wrong.
    What I was questioning, and it is a very valid point, is why were are getting such a hard sell from a clearly biased individual who is a stakeholder in the success of this flawed hardware.

    If you all want to offer free license to anyone that wants to sell their wares here, so be it.

    But frankly, I'd be embarrassed to offer something that has this many intentionally designed in flaws.

    I know they don't want to offer something that might compete with their higher end products, but really this board design is closer to what Paul Gentle and I were discussing before the X1000 was released (years ago).

    Its dated, overpriced, under powered, and uses a processor we have discussed repeatedly as one to be avoided.

    At the potential expense of a ban from here, I refuse to assuage someone else's shallow ego when their creative endeavors fall so far short of amazing.

    Whether that bothers Andre OR A-eon's Linux guru is none of my concern.


    Tabor? No, this is the turd sandwich board and no amount of bread is going to make this one taste any better.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.10.15 - 00:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1111 from 2003/4/13
    I agree that the board is ridiculous. Some people actually are trying to brag that it has Raspberry Pi speed as if that is a selling point on a 1,000Euro motherboard? Given the FPU issue, this is nothing short of lunacy. For OS4 it will be slower than a Sam460 and near twice the cost? How can anyone swallow going backwards with the foot on the gas like this?

    What the heck were these companies thinking? What the heck are the handful of defenders thinking?

    [ Edited by redrumloa 13.10.2015 - 20:14 ]
  • »14.10.15 - 01:14
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4338 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Thanks Red.
    I have let this get personal when that was never my intent (btw - Andre, sorry about the last PM, well sort of).
    I think its worth noting that I've received some seriously nasty character assassination merely for stating my opinion.

    The design and marketing of PPC hardware intended for our community is now controlled by essentially one entity.

    Up until this point I considered this benign.

    But it isn't.

    I will say this again, the compromises present in this design are not derived from economic or engineering considerations.

    It is an over priced, flawed product that makes me look at the Atom based mini-itx motherboard I have sitting unused on one of my workbenches thinking "they want 700 euros for something that can't outperform that piece of crap - wtf".

    The saving grace in all this is the little insight we have been provided by developers like Mark.

    We won't have to rely on these sources in the future.

    At this point, I'd like to apologize for my hard headed insistence that PPCs be pursued at all costs, especially for the hours I know have gone into ports worked on by our best developers when their time could have been better spent addressing the future.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.10.15 - 01:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1112 from 2003/6/17
    I'm with you. All of these overpriced PPC boards are a waste of money.
  • »14.10.15 - 03:19
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 897 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    If it appeared to Andre's somewhat paranoid frame of mind that my intent was to bash another poster, he was wrong.

    Instead of continuing to participate in an on-going discussion about the issue, you decided to open a new discussion thread with someone's user name as the title questioning their motives.

    Despite you denial, it is blatantly obvious what you were doing.

    Quote:

    At the potential expense of a ban from here, I refuse to assuage someone else's shallow ego when their creative endeavors fall so far short of amazing.

    Quote:

    I have let this get personal when that was never my intent (btw - Andre, sorry about the last PM, well sort of).
    I think its worth noting that I've received some seriously nasty character assassination merely for stating my opinion.

    You were the one assassinating someone else's character.

    Considering that you clearly did not get the hint, immediately opened up yet another thread about the topic (camouflaged with comments regarding hardware), sent me that lovely PM and publically acknowledged that you expected to be banned for your behaviour but did not care, your account will be banned for 2 weeks.
  • »14.10.15 - 04:15
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1043 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    I don't understand why do you care so much about some mobo which probably has nothing and will have nothing to do with MorphOS. Is anyone forcing you to spend money on it? And I understand constructive criticism but some of people in here are mixing that with simple hate.

    [ Edited by pampers 14.10.2015 - 09:42 ]
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »14.10.15 - 09:41
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 96 from 2015/6/30
    This post makes you wonder how and why we reached here.
    Or maybe it tells you that.

    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=797215&postcount=12



    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    I don't understand why do you care so much about some mobo which probably has nothing and will have nothing to do with MorphOS. Is anyone forcing you to spend money on it? And I understand constructive criticism but some of people in here are mixing that with simple hate.
  • »14.10.15 - 10:14
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    No one need to worry. When I spoke to the Team at Neuss they said they have no intention whatsoever to port MorphOS to this board. I like the size of it, but there is no getting around it's poor price/performance (like all new PPC boards) and it's crippled FPU.

    Let's just leave it at that shall we?
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »14.10.15 - 10:34
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 96 from 2015/6/30
    maybe something in the pipeline ?

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40622&forum=2&start=220&viewmode=flat&order=0#770500

    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    No one need to worry. When I spoke to the Team at Neuss they said they have no intention whatsoever to port MorphOS to this board. I like the size of it, but there is no getting around it's poor price/performance (like all new PPC boards) and it's crippled FPU.

    Let's just leave it at that shall we?
  • »14.10.15 - 10:38
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Everblue
    Posts: 141 from 2004/1/6
    Something as in other boards?
  • »14.10.15 - 10:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9433 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > This post makes you wonder how and why we reached here. Or maybe it tells you that.
    > http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=797215&postcount=12

    I think this post does better:

    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=797314
  • »14.10.15 - 11:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9433 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > there is no getting around it's poor price/performance (like all new PPC boards)
    > and it's crippled FPU.

    At least the former characteristic wasn't enough to prevent the Sam460 and X5000 ports ;-)
  • »14.10.15 - 11:28
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Everblue
    Posts: 141 from 2004/1/6
    I really doubt A-EON would create a motherboard that doesn't even support Amiga OS4. To be fair, A-EON never said anything about Tabor (or at least I never read anything official), so it might just be a prototype board which will never be released for commercial users.
  • »14.10.15 - 11:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9433 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I really doubt A-EON would create a motherboard that doesn't even support Amiga OS4.

    The OS has to support the board, not the other way round. First the board is created, then the OS is adapted to support the board components.

    > A-EON never said anything about Tabor (or at least I never read anything official)

    In June, Trevor wrote in his blog about Tabor that spectre660 "is about to receive his first A-EON Technology hardware".
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=122
  • »14.10.15 - 12:26
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Everblue
    Posts: 141 from 2004/1/6
    Thanks for your reply Andreas_Wolf :)

    >The OS has to support the board, not the other way round. First the board is created, then the OS is adapted to support the board components.

    Yes you are right, but if important things like compatibility, FPU etc. isn't considered, it might jeopardise the OS, or severely limit it, as what seems the case.

    >In June, Trevor wrote in his blog about Tabor that spectre660 "is about to receive his first A-EON Technology hardware".

    Which would maybe explain why Spectre660 is "defending" the product. Of course, I have nothing against Spectre660 or even the fact that he is entitled to have and voice his opinions.

    By the way, any chance of change the topic, it is a bit, tasteless.
  • »14.10.15 - 13:04
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1111 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Everblue wrote:
    I really doubt A-EON would create a motherboard that doesn't even support Amiga OS4. To be fair, A-EON never said anything about Tabor (or at least I never read anything official), so it might just be a prototype board which will never be released for commercial users.


    A-Eonkit/Acube would not be showing the hardware unless they fully intended to sell it with OS4. There simply is no market for PPC Linux on such hardware with horrorshow price/performance ratio. Linux is ported to verify the hardware is functional and to give OS4 users something to dual boot with that actually works. OS4 Kommunity is probably the only retro hobbyist market that would sell even a single board with this price/performance ratio. Somehow they managed to make the Sam460cr look like a bargain in comparison!

    Problem is, who exactly is going to buy into this lunacy? What little I've read on the corporate sites is tepid at best. It seems even most current OS4 users are scratching their head about this and cold to the idea. Even the handful of supporters mostly sound lukewarm. How many boards can they possibly sell when even your target audience isn't interested?

    [ Edited by redrumloa 14.10.2015 - 08:21 ]
  • »14.10.15 - 13:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1111 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Everblue wrote:
    Yes you are right, but if important things like compatibility, FPU etc. isn't considered, it might jeopardise the OS, or severely limit it, as what seems the case.



    I wonder who is the driving the technological push for the OS4 camp? There are 3 major players here, Acube, A-Eonkit and HYPErion, all 3 have a stake in this board. Who's idea was it that this was a good idea? It seems like a no-brainer that this is a terrible idea considering OS4 will be seriously crippled on an already underwhelming board.

    The reason I wonder who is behind it is because it reminds me of the Netbook fiasco from a few years back. That seemed to be driven by Hermans/HYPErion. There are a lot of parallels. It was an underwhelming product that many outside the OS4 Kommunity said wouldn't end well, and in the end it was canned. Speculation was the port was being pushed since Limebooks were available at the time for liquidation on Alibaba. Did the same thing happen with this CPU?

    [ Edited by redrumloa 14.10.2015 - 08:29 ]
  • »14.10.15 - 13:29
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 96 from 2015/6/30
    Circles .
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6465&forum=11
  • »14.10.15 - 14:27
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 65 from 2011/4/21
    Quote:

    The reason I wonder who is behind it is because it reminds me of the Netbook fiasco from a few years back. That seemed to be driven by Hermans/HYPErion. There are a lot of parallels. It was an underwhelming product that many outside the OS4 Kommunity said wouldn't end well, and in the end it was canned. Speculation was the port was being pushed since Limebooks were available at the time for liquidation on Alibaba. Did the same thing happen with this CPU?

    that's actually a very good question. my theory was that acube already had a customer lined up that needed a board like this (i have no idea why they would, but i digress). but your point about there being a pile of these things somewhere where they could have been purchased at very low cost is another theory.

    i'll ask that at amiwest when we see trevor/matthew.

    -- eliyahu
    Check out the latest on next-generation Amiga computing at IntuitionBase.com!
  • »14.10.15 - 14:39
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1111 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    eliyahu wrote:
    that's actually a very good question. my theory was that acube already had a customer lined up that needed a board like this (i have no idea why they would, but i digress). but your point about there being a pile of these things somewhere where they could have been purchased at very low cost is another theory.

    i'll ask that at amiwest when we see trevor/matthew.

    -- eliyahu


    Do you really think they would give a candid reply for such a question? Either way, curious the response.
  • »14.10.15 - 14:50
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 65 from 2011/4/21
    Quote:

    Do you really think they would give a candid reply for such a question? Either way, curious the response.

    dunno, but it's worth a shot. i'm not clear why the board was spec'd the way it was -- and some details haven't been released yet, so you'll know what i mean shortly. i'd like to see if they'll open up on why it was designed the way it was and to whom they are targeting it. i've got some other questions, too, and if they don't address them directly in their presentations, i'll ask 'em and post the replies on a.org.

    -- eliyahu
    Check out the latest on next-generation Amiga computing at IntuitionBase.com!
  • »14.10.15 - 14:56
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1111 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    eliyahu wrote:
    dunno, but it's worth a shot. i'm not clear why the board was spec'd the way it was -- and some details haven't been released yet, so you'll know what i mean shortly. i'd like to see if they'll open up on why it was designed the way it was and to whom they are targeting it. i've got some other questions, too, and if they don't address them directly in their presentations, i'll ask 'em and post the replies on a.org.

    -- eliyahu


    Maybe try to get some info on the Sam460cr. Did it ever really go on sale? Is it now a discontinued product?
  • »14.10.15 - 15:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9433 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > OS4 Kommunity is probably the only retro hobbyist market that would sell even a
    > single board with this price/performance ratio.

    http://firebee.org/fb-bin/preorder?&lng=EN :-)
  • »14.10.15 - 15:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1111 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > OS4 Kommunity is probably the only retro hobbyist market that would sell even a
    > single board with this price/performance ratio.

    http://firebee.org/fb-bin/preorder?&lng=EN :-)


    Touché. That is much more custom and specialized, but fits my blanket statement.
  • »14.10.15 - 15:25
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 65 from 2011/4/21
    Quote:

    Maybe try to get some info on the Sam460cr. Did it ever really go on sale? Is it now a discontinued product?

    it did go on sale. several people purchased them, in fact, including Epsilon who blogged about it. but i can ask if there are any left and/or any more are planned to be produced.

    -- eliyahu
    Check out the latest on next-generation Amiga computing at IntuitionBase.com!
  • »14.10.15 - 15:25
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