Graphic card question
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Furvert
    Posts: 83 from 2004/4/20
    Currently I have an ATI AGP Radion 9200 with 128M in my Pegasos II G4.
    Since it's 10 years old now and nothing lasts forever, I'm looking for something to replace it just in case.
    Looking through the hardware list on MorphOS I saw a number of options.
    However, about half the "3d hardware acceleration" cards list as no W3D.
    What I'd like to know is how important is this really?
    Is it just games that use this or other applications?

    As best I can tell so far, the 3D games I do have use Tinygl.

    Eventually I'd also like to add my Dual G5 PowerMac to my MorphOS machines.
    The card in it works, but is there a graphic card list specific to them?


    Thank you

    Furvert
  • »24.04.15 - 11:28
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    NicePics13
    Posts: 63 from 2007/3/9
    From: Finland
    Got me on ebay a cheap Radeon 9600 salvaged from a G5 that I'm going to mod to fit in my G4: http://pistolerapost2.com/viewing/96002g4.html

    CBM Amiga 1200 + 4MB AMITEK with 33MHz 68882 FPU
    PowerBook5,4 1024MB 1333MHz G4
  • »24.04.15 - 12:20
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2257 from 2003/2/24
    "No W3D" means that really old ancient and crappy games won't (pretty much everything Hyperion so no loss at all).

    Those cards still have 3D support, but only in the form of OpenGL (or a subset of OpenGL, couldn't care less) and will play all semi recent MorphOS-native games well.
  • »24.04.15 - 20:06
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 788 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    "No W3D" means you have to use Wazp3D :-)
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · iMac G5 12,1 17", MorphOS 3.18
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.18
  • »24.04.15 - 21:15
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Posts: 507 from 2003/6/14
    Quote:

    Furvert wrote:
    However, about half the "3d hardware acceleration" cards list as no W3D.
    What I'd like to know is how important is this really?


    If you want to make sure you have nothing relying on W3D, you could disable its two libraries in the shell:
    Code:

    rename MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3D.library MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3D.library_disabled
    rename MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3DPPC.library MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3DPPC.library_disabled


    Then reboot and check if everything is still working...

    You could later re-enable W3D compatibility by typing in the shell:
    Code:

    rename MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3D.library_disabled MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3D.library
    rename MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3DPPC.library_disabled MOSSYS:Libs/Warp3DPPC.library


    Don't be afraid to try because there is nothing in MorphOS itself relying on W3D. So your system should still boot and be usable, no matter what.
  • »25.04.15 - 19:16
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1916 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Quote:

    NicePics13 wrote:
    Got me on ebay a cheap Radeon 9600 salvaged from a G5 that I'm going to mod to fit in my G4: http://pistolerapost2.com/viewing/96002g4.html


    I've also done this as well with a 9600 from my old G5 machine. The tape on the traces has been in place for years and has never had an issue. Takes all of 5 minutes to do.

    [ Edited by Acill 25.04.2015 - 13:50 ]
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  • »25.04.15 - 21:49
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  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    You need video card that supports x2/3.3v for the Pegasos 2. There are 9800 cards that support x2 but I don't think there were any such 9600 card. Plugging in a card that doesn't support the correct voltage will damage it and your Peg 2. If you want something that's a bit nipper than the 9200 and the old Warp3D software is still important to you then a 9000 pro is a good alternative, although it can be difficult to find a 128MB model.

    9800 is obviously the best to go for.
  • »26.04.15 - 02:00
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I'd have to agree with Rob.
    A universally keyed AGP 9800Pro would be the best card for a Peg2 (look for two notches in the card edge, not just one).
    Some of these cards even have underclocked 9800XT cores.
    I have seen these (I think I sent one of these to Cool_amigaN).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.04.15 - 03:04
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1193 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    I wouldn't replace a working gfx card, unless it's really too slow for something (and a faster replacement would solve the issue), or the fan starts to show its age or similar...

    Of course, if you find one for cheap, or are worried about future availability, you could buy one for backup.

    Also worth mentioning, since this is for Pegasos 2, it needs to be specifically the "normal" X86 model, not any "(PPC)Mac version"

    As for W3D, on commercial side, it's pretty much:
    Games:
    Heretic 2
    Shogo
    Descent Freespace
    Hyperion's Quake 2 port
    Wipeout 2097

    Programs:
    Tornado3D (not sure?)

    Of those, you could immediately check Quake 2 off the list, there's leaked native port around, and also a newer "official" port, although couldn't get it running last time I tried it quickly.

    Since there's "special" version of Freespace 2 that can run Freespace 1 data files with the improved Freespace 2 engine, I'd check that off the list aswell. AFAIK, it won't run with Hyperion version though (some changes with data files), but shouldn't be that unstable (have tried only Hyperion version and feels like anything would be more stable), and as a bonus, you get an improved gfx engine.

    So for (commercial) games, that leaves out Heretic 2, Shogo and Wipeout 2097. Of those, Wipeout was definitely the least problematic on classics too (I think I can see a pattern here).

    Of programs, Tornado3D wasn't really finished, and it's really buggy. Even with W3D support, I doubt it would be possible to get it running on MorphOS at all. And not sure if it supports W3D to begin with, just listed it as it's the only commercial software I'd imagine MIGHT have W3D support.

    So, that's pretty much it. Of course there are quite a few simple freeware games / programs that use it, but I don't think anything "too interesting".

    Also, if the program happens to be open source and it uses minigl (instead of direct Warp3D), should be easy to adapt to use tinygl instead.
  • »28.04.15 - 09:26
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 643 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Doesn't Tornado3D use Rave3D api?

    [ Edited by zukow 28.04.2015 - 14:04 ]
  • »28.04.15 - 10:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @Jupp3

    Good summary! :-)

    I agree, Warp3D is pointless and would be a complete waste of resources. Let Warp3D float away into oblivion, missed by no-one.

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »28.04.15 - 10:51
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > As for W3D, on commercial side, it's pretty much:
    > Games:
    > Heretic 2
    > Shogo
    > Descent Freespace
    > Hyperion's Quake 2 port
    > Wipeout 2097

    ...and Payback.

    > Tornado3D wasn't really finished

    You mean it made it to version 3.0 but was still unfinished?
  • »28.04.15 - 12:13
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  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2039 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Don't forget the demoscene :) There are more Warp3D demos than other programs total. At least I love that I've finally been able to see those nice PPC demos from MaWi, Encore etc without having to build expensive and hacky classic Amiga machine. It's a bit shame that we lose that possibility with newer cards...

    And yeah, I think Tornado3D uses Rave3D... 3.0 is said to be very buggy/crashy, but maybe some 2.x versions would be more stable.

    [ Edited by jPV 28.04.2015 - 14:20 ]
  • »28.04.15 - 13:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    analogkid
    Posts: 663 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    And don't forget the AmigaAMP plugins ;)
  • »28.04.15 - 16:34
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