MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1090 from 2003/4/13
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69083

    This is interesting. I'm not sure if I personally think it is a good idea or not, but I'm not part of the MorphOS Team :-) Should we read more into this than what is on the surface? I can't imagine HYPErion would be too thrilled with the MorphOS team getting a development board to port MorphOS.

    On the plus side, until this point I had absolutely no interest in the X5000. Now if true, I have at least a curiosity.

    On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

    Either way, I'm not complaining. I have very few complaints about MorphOS. The value I've had for my keyfiles has been impressive. While I'd probably prefer a move to X64, I have enough trust in the MorphOS Team to accept the moves they make.

    So here is the one main question. How would the X5000 compare to a PowerMac G5? Let's say a fully loaded G5 2.3Ghz. Will it beat it in 3d gaming? Converting video? To date the Mac G5 is king of the PPC hill, with the Mac G4 the queen of the hill. Is the X5000 good enough to dethrone either?
  • »12.04.15 - 01:53
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1191 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:

    On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?



    I myself don't like the idea to put resources to the architecture switch yet, because I'd imagine it would cause a pretty long feature freeze generally to the OS itself, and we still have life in PPC.

    If new PPC support doesn't take too much from the general improvements, why not then, but otherwise I'd like to see some improvements and maturing for a while still :)
  • »12.04.15 - 07:33
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 526 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    maybe the OS4 customers are the only ones left who you could also call potential morphos clients. Maybe thats the only strategy left for the team to raise their sold licenses.
    Actually, that machine will be just too overpriced and probably crippled in some way just like the X1000. The Team was against overpriced hardware and now they are porting their system to those machines...

    A port to Intel Macs would be better IMO.
    Powerbook G4@1,67GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, Radeon 9700, 60GB SSD, MorphOS 3.7
    PowerMac Dual G5 @2.3GHz, 4GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9600XT, 2x250GB HD, MorphOS 3.7, MacOS X Leopard 10.5.8
  • »12.04.15 - 07:44
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1038 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    A port to Intel Macs would be better IMO.


    Why porting to Intel Macs which are overprices because they have an apple logo is a good idea for you? I don't even mention any "legal" reasons, if there are any.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »12.04.15 - 08:58
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1592 from 2003/2/24
    @pampers

    If porting to x86 is actually planned it would make good sense to choose HW that will still be easily available and identifyble by the time they are actually supported in the public ISO (which can be anything from 1 to 3 years after such a port had been started).

    It has sofar also been a fact that (Intel-)Macs either show catastropic fault early on or last allmost forever, which is also good as we would be most likely be buying 2nd hand anyways.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
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  • »12.04.15 - 10:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1038 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    @Kronos

    I'm sure there is a plenty of different hw available in huge quantities if you ever will decide to go x86 route. But even if you will go for Intel Macs I will be the one of the first one buying it anyway ;)
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »12.04.15 - 10:29
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 277 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:

    On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?


    Most of the time spent is being sunk into drivers for newer hardware (f.ex. newer Radeons). While getting the Sam460 port took a bit of ironing out some Quark details, getting MorphOS to boot on the X5000 afterwards took merely 2 days.

    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    @pampers

    If porting to x86 is actually planned it would make good sense to choose HW that will still be easily available and identifyble by the time they are actually supported in the public ISO (which can be anything from 1 to 3 years after such a port had been started).


    I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.
  • »12.04.15 - 11:00
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 343 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Cego wrote:
    maybe the OS4 customers are the only ones left who you could also call potential morphos clients. Maybe thats the only strategy left for the team to raise their sold licenses.
    Actually, that machine will be just too overpriced and probably crippled in some way just like the X1000. The Team was against overpriced hardware and now they are porting their system to those machines...

    A port to Intel Macs would be better IMO.


    ... as well as SAM460/(X1000)/X5000 is likely to be last PPC hardware avail. So before port to x86 is done, it is only way to go.

    Surely, it gives an opportunity (highly unlikely yet) MorphOS users to buy these if they desire, but its more other way around - OS4 customer base gets to try MorphOS.

    Great and fair deal would be to offer systems with both licenses OR choice of MorphOS or AmigaOS 4 as desired (instead of must have OS4 as it has been so far). That would be fair competition.

    Biggest win win would be opportunity to have MorphOS sold with new systems in Amiga shops as well as on MorphOS websites - first time after Efika and Pegasos II days.

    I would also like to see x1000 port after x5000 is done, since I doubt I will be able to buy x5000 anytime soon.
    ------------------------------------------
    Future MOS user pon SAM460ex
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  • »12.04.15 - 11:01
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1721 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Don't forget all the work it implies. There is no point of porting it to X86 or 64 bit ARM unless you remove all the API limitations too. Like 32 bit, single core, no modern memory protection etc. That also means a lot of work. If you just port MorphOS "as is" to X86 or ARM, you would not gain much power but lose all the software we have.

    It all comes down to how much work needs to be done, and what can be done with the hardware we already have.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »12.04.15 - 11:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1721 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Quote:

    I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.


    Wait, what? "When"? Does this mean you decided the roadmap?
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

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  • »12.04.15 - 11:23
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 159 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    redrumloa escribi�:
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69083

    This is interesting. I'm not sure if I personally think it is a good idea or not, but I'm not part of the MorphOS Team :-) Should we read more into this than what is on the surface? I can't imagine HYPErion would be too thrilled with the MorphOS team getting a development board to port MorphOS.

    On the plus side, until this point I had absolutely no interest in the X5000. Now if true, I have at least a curiosity.

    On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

    Either way, I'm not complaining. I have very few complaints about MorphOS. The value I've had for my keyfiles has been impressive. While I'd probably prefer a move to X64, I have enough trust in the MorphOS Team to accept the moves they make.

    So here is the one main question. How would the X5000 compare to a PowerMac G5? Let's say a fully loaded G5 2.3Ghz. Will it beat it in 3d gaming? Converting video? To date the Mac G5 is king of the PPC hill, with the Mac G4 the queen of the hill. Is the X5000 good enough to dethrone either?


    Well, a good OS for this machine
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 + Update 6. K.O.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.9
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.9
  • »12.04.15 - 11:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I don't even mention any "legal" reasons, if there are any.

    There aren't.
  • »12.04.15 - 12:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs.
    > AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense.

    I wonder whether your colleague geit got this memo ;-)
  • »12.04.15 - 12:25
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > opportunity to have MorphOS sold with new systems in Amiga shops as well
    > as on MorphOS websites - first time after Efika and Pegasos II days.

    You could never buy any hardware on the MorphOS website. And I can't remember the Efika 5200B being sold with MorphOS keyfile in Amiga shops.
  • »12.04.15 - 12:35
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    eliot
    Posts: 451 from 2004/4/15
    But now Vesalia, Alinea and Co can sole Sam, X5000 systems with preinstalled MorphOs.
    regards
    eliot

    www.exception-dev.de
  • »12.04.15 - 12:42
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 228 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69083

    This is interesting. I'm not sure if I personally think it is a good idea or not, but I'm not part of the MorphOS Team :-) Should we read more into this than what is on the surface? I can't imagine HYPErion would be too thrilled with the MorphOS team getting a development board to port MorphOS.

    On the plus side, until this point I had absolutely no interest in the X5000. Now if true, I have at least a curiosity.

    On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

    Either way, I'm not complaining. I have very few complaints about MorphOS. The value I've had for my keyfiles has been impressive. While I'd probably prefer a move to X64, I have enough trust in the MorphOS Team to accept the moves they make.

    So here is the one main question. How would the X5000 compare to a PowerMac G5? Let's say a fully loaded G5 2.3Ghz. Will it beat it in 3d gaming? Converting video? To date the Mac G5 is king of the PPC hill, with the Mac G4 the queen of the hill. Is the X5000 good enough to dethrone either?


    No. I still think MorphOS should fully support the multi core processings and 64 bit versions of the PPC Apple computers and the PPC Aeon computers. And even adding memory protection.

    Why?
    1. It makes little sense to only partially support a computer.
    2. If MorphOS fully supports these PPC computers, then they can accomplish something that AmigaOS could not accomplish! :-)
    3. Aeon aCube can sell more computers if a fully functioning and sophisticated such as MorphOS was available for it. :-D Right now available options for AEON aCube are only the silly operating systems.

    I am not against a X86 64 computer port, (while still prefer ARM MIPS AMD) but please enable full support for the PowerPC computers and retain support for PowerPC computers until AmigaOS just goes away. Thanks.

    [ Edited by In_Correct 13.04.2015 - 02:25 ]
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »12.04.15 - 12:45
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 228 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:

    On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?


    Most of the time spent is being sunk into drivers for newer hardware (f.ex. newer Radeons). While getting the Sam460 port took a bit of ironing out some Quark details, getting MorphOS to boot on the X5000 afterwards took merely 2 days.

    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    @pampers

    If porting to x86 is actually planned it would make good sense to choose HW that will still be easily available and identifyble by the time they are actually supported in the public ISO (which can be anything from 1 to 3 years after such a port had been started).


    I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.


    I appreciate that MorphOS is considering the AMD Processors. :-P

    Also I request that your laptop supporting plans be supporting a laptop with a numeric keypad. Example: I found a HP Sleekbook (with AMD processor) with a keyboard containing the numeric keypad and I was amazed laptops finally contain numeric keypads. Thanks.

    And thank you for not supporting the silly X86 Apple.
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »12.04.15 - 12:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > now Vesalia, Alinea and Co can sole Sam, X5000 systems with preinstalled MorphOs.

    Now? That was fast, man ;-)
  • »12.04.15 - 13:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I am not against a X86 64 computer port, (while still prefer ARM MIPS AMD)

    AMD's CPUs implement x86-64.
  • »12.04.15 - 13:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs.
    >> AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense.

    > I appreciate that MorphOS is considering the AMD Processors. :-P

    The term "AMD64 Macs" should give away that it's not necessarily about AMD processors but also about Intel (and Via) processors implementing AMD64 aka Intel 64 aka x86-64 aka x64 aka...
  • »12.04.15 - 13:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 228 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs.
    >> AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense.

    > I appreciate that MorphOS is considering the AMD Processors. :-P

    The term "AMD64 Macs" should give away that it's not necessarily about AMD processors but also about Intel (and Via) processors imlementing AMD64 aka Intel 64 aka x86-64 aka x64 aka...


    AMD would seem to add uniqueness to MorphOS uniqueness which makes sense to use AMD. I recommend it despite AMD is an X86 processor.

    I was really hoping that "AMD64 Macs" was a typo.

    What is Via?
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »12.04.15 - 15:51
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8808 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What is Via?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Nano
  • »12.04.15 - 16:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 232 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    Too bad MorphOS won't support Intel Macs at some point in the future. I just happen to have a few of those laying around.
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  • »12.04.15 - 17:32
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 442 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    I have two Amstrads and C=128DCR, morphos should support them too !!!11!111111
  • »12.04.15 - 18:29
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1090 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    I have two Amstrads and C=128DCR, morphos should support them too !!!11!111111


    128D? Now we're talking :-D
  • »12.04.15 - 18:47
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