Alchimie 111111
  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @andreas

    Well, if you want: https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AY7XPx7zi4LBZGNicmc4amZfNDZmYm1iaHJkZw

    (the presentation was shown with OWB in fullscreen mode)

    Legend:
    green : planned for 3.0.
    orange: not started/still quite some work to do/to be discussed depending on planning. In any case, planned for further 3.x releases.



    [ Edited by Fab 14.11.2011 - 14:08 ]
  • »14.11.11 - 15:08
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2069 from 2003/2/24
    @Fab

    Since you marked the new panels orange anyway I can continue slacking :-P

    But honestly 6 weeks or less would have been a bit short for final-fixes, intregration into current 3.0-Ambient and some testing anyway......

    There is allways 3.1 :roll:
  • »14.11.11 - 15:18
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @Kronos

    Up to you that i make it green. :)
  • »14.11.11 - 15:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AY7XPx7zi4LBZGNicmc4amZfNDZmYm1iaHJkZw

    Thanks, very appreciated.

    > the presentation was shown with OWB in fullscreen mode

    You are right. Admittedly, I hadn't watched the video, hence my request. Just have had a look into the video now and realized that the quality is decent enough for me to not really require the actual slides, so sorry for pestering you about it ;-)

    > Legend:
    > green : planned for 3.0.
    > orange: [...] planned for further 3.x releases.

    Alright, so I can extend the list of features that will not make it into 3.0:

    - R300 3D
    - power management (processor speed, low power GPU mode, disable modem, network)
    - SMBFS (?)
    - SSHFS
    - IceFS
    - AirPort
    - Helios
    - transparent Ambient panels
    - Ambient sub-docks and plugins

    Btw, how come "SMBFS" is in green on your slide when geit says that it won't come in 3.0?
  • »14.11.11 - 15:39
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @andreas

    Transparent panels and subdocks are the same thing. And as said above, it depends if Kronos has enough time to iron out some bugs, finalize and integrate it for 3.0 or not.

    As for SMBFS, i guess Geit believed i referred to a FUSE-based SMBFS. I refer to the one we already have on MorphOS/AmigaOS, but with large file support.

    For the rest, even if ICeFS, Helios don't make it for 3.0 release, they're still available separately anyway. :)



    [ Edited by Fab 14.11.2011 - 15:08 ]
  • »14.11.11 - 16:07
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4965 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Personally, its the lack of R300 3D and Airport drivers that disappoints me.
    But I know they will get done eventually.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.11.11 - 16:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2710 from 2003/2/24
    @Fab

    That's quite a lot of green anyway! :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »14.11.11 - 16:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Transparent panels and subdocks are the same thing.

    Okay.

    > As for SMBFS, i guess Geit believed i referred to a FUSE-based SMBFS. I refer
    > to the one we already have on MorphOS/AmigaOS, but with large file support.

    Thanks for clarification. So it will be Olsen's Piru-enhanced SMBFS, fine :-)

    > For the rest, even if ICeFS, Helios don't make it for 3.0 release, they're still
    > available separately anyway. :)

    Yes, of course :-)

    So this is the revised list of the mentioned features that will only come after 3.0:

    - R300 3D
    - VBO
    - power management (processor speed, low power GPU mode, disable modem, network, power down HDD)
    - SSHFS
    - IceFS (currently available as 3rd party)
    - AirPort (Extreme?)
    - Helios (currently available as 3rd party)
    - transparent Ambient panels with sub-docks and plugins
  • »14.11.11 - 16:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Personally, its the lack of R300 3D and Airport drivers that disappoints me.

    Disappointment regarding lack of R300 3D drivers is fully understandable, but did you really expect AirPort or even AirPort Extreme support to be in the next MorphOS release? I mean, it was nowhere and nowhen hinted at by the MorphOS Team, so it couldn't be expected to be there. As kind of "workaround" there is always PCMCIA/CardBus in the PowerBook and PCI in the PowerMac.
  • »14.11.11 - 16:56
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  • Moderator
    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    Jim,
    Quote:

    Personally, its the lack of R300 3D and Airport drivers that disappoints me.


    Mee too.

    [ Edited by Miky060 14.11.2011 - 18:41 ]

    PegasosII "Elite" Machine --> PowerMac MDD "popular" Machine --> MacMini 1.5 "still more popular" Machine
  • »14.11.11 - 18:40
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @Jim, Miky060

    Guys, guys! You're just seeing the orange, look at all the green!

    (Although noting that green is only planned for 3.0, not written in stone.)

    Support du PowerBook G4 (modèles 5,6 à 5,9).
    Transferts AGP sur les plateformes le supportant (macs).
    Pilotes WIFI et intégration à la couche TCP/IP : Atheros5000,
    Pilotes SATA et SCSI (Symbios) fonctionnels sur PowerMac G4.
    Pilotes 3D plus rapides,
    Composants systèmes améliorés : MUI, Ambient, Multiview, HDConfig, mount.library, ...
    Nouvelles applications : client FTP/SFTP, logiciel de gravure CD/DVD, nouveau lecteur PDF, éditeur de texte moderne, ...
    Systèmes de fichiers : NTFS3G (écriture), SMBFS (64bits)
    Touchpad et gestures (scrolling, bouton droit, ...).
    Spécificités du clavier (touche Fn, touches de luminosité,...).
    Prise en charge des différentes dalles graphiques (15", 17" et leurs variantes...)
    Port Cardbus (PCMCIA).
    Pilotes WIFI : Atheros5k (via Cardbus), Airport
    Couche WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant) en collaboration avec AROS.
    Surveillance des capteurs : vitesse des ventilateurs, niveau de la batterie, température, ...
    Gestion contrôlée de l'énergie de différents composants en fonction des capteurs et préférences utilisateur (luminosité, rétroéclairage clavier,)
    Pilotes SATA et Symbios fonctionnant sur PowerMac G4
    Transferts AGP (4x, >1Go/s), utile en cas de swap de vram, lecture vidéo, 3D, ...
    Pilotes WIFI Atheros 5k (carte PCI)
    Pilotes 3D plus rapides,
    Portage de la couche FUSE, permettant le portage de certains filesystems opensource plus aisément.
    NTFS3g (support écriture)
    SMBFS (64bits)
    Ambient : miniatures vidéo, ...
    MUI : effet de désactivation amélioré, rendu du cadre de l'objet actif configurable, onglets réorganisables, ...
    Multiview : intégration de plus de formats et nouvelles fonctionnalités
    Intégration WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant), indicateurs, configuration, ...
    HDConfig/mount.library : meilleure gestion des tables de partitions mac
    Cairo/Pixman/Fontconfig fournis avec le système
    MagicBeacon : notifications visuelles sur différents types d'évènements (nouveau mail, téléchargement fini, dvd inséré, ...), hautement configurable (contrib ?)
    Grunch : gestionnaire de paquets (contrib ?)
    Jalapeno : logiciel de gravure CD/DVD et création d'ISO, pilotable depuis Ambient, ...
    VPDF : lecteur PDF moderne et compatible, avec vues multiples, basé sur le moteur Poppler.
    Transfer : client FTP et SFTP, vues multiples.
    Scribble : éditeur de texte/sources, basé sur Scintilla. Gestion de projet, autocomplétion, aide contextuelle, colorisation syntaxique pour différents langages,...
    Odyssey Web Browser : synchronisation fréquente avec WebKit, ajout de nouvelles fonctionnalités, ...

    [ Edited by boot_wb 14.11.2011 - 19:13 ]
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
    HTPC: Mac Mini G4 (1,5GHz, 64MB VRam): OS3.1 (ZVNC)
    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »14.11.11 - 20:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    stephen_robinson
    Posts: 745 from 2007/4/22
    Quote:


    Support the PowerBook G4 (models 5.6 to 5.9).
    AGP transfers on platforms that support it (macs).
    Drivers WiFi and integration with the TCP / IP: Atheros5000,
    Drivers SATA and SCSI (Symbios) functional on PowerMac G4.
    3D drivers faster
    Improved systems components: MUI, Ambient, Multiview, HDConfig, mount.library ...
    New applications: FTP / SFTP, software CD / DVD, new PDF reader, editor Modern ...
    File Systems: NTFS3G (write), SMBFS (64bit)
    And touchpad gestures (scrolling, right ...).
    Specificities of the keyboard (Fn, brightness keys ,...).
    Support for various graphic tiles (15 ", 17" and variations thereof ...)
    Port Cardbus (PCMCIA).
    Drivers WIFI: Atheros5k (via Cardbus), Airport
    Layer WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant) in collaboration with AROS.
    Sensor monitoring: fan speed, battery level, temperature, ...
    Controlled management of the energy components and sensors based on user preferences (brightness, backlight keyboard)
    Symbios SATA drivers and running on PowerMac G4
    Transfers (AGP 4x,> 1GB / s), useful in case of vram swap, video playback, 3D ...
    Atheros 5k wireless driver (PCI)
    3D drivers faster
    Porting layer FUSE, allowing porting some open source filesystems easier.
    NTFS3g (write support)
    SMBFS (64bit)
    Ambient: miniature video ...
    MUI: effect of disabling improved rendering of part of the active object configurable Arrange tab, ...
    Multiview: integration of more new features and formats
    Integration WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant), indicators, configuration, ...
    HDConfig / mount.library: better management of mac partition tables
    Cairo / Pixman / Fontconfig supplied with the system
    MagicBeacon: visual notifications on different types of events (new mail, download finished, insert dvd, ...), highly configurable (contrib?)
    Grunch: package manager (contrib?)
    Jalapeno: burning software CD / DVD and create ISO, controllable from Ambient, ...
    VPDF: modern and PDF reader compatible with multiple views, based on the engine Poppler.
    Transfer: FTP and SFTP, multiple views.
    Scribble: editor / sources, based on Scintilla. Project management, autocompletion, context-sensitive help, syntax highlighting for different languages, ...
    Odyssey Web Browser: WebKit with frequent synchronization, adding new features, ...



    :-) :-)

    Well that's good enough for me! Roll on 3.0!

    [ Edited by stephen_robinson 14.11.2011 - 19:56 ]
  • »14.11.11 - 20:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2710 from 2003/2/24
    @Jim, Miky060

    Personally, I think the Panels/Subdocks is a more pressing matter, something all MorphOS users needs (not just powerbook, like the case with "Airport"), and one of the most prominent and obvious aspects of the GUI, one of the first thing you notice (as a new user) and will want to use. It should be good looking, feature rich, and easy to use!
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.11.11 - 00:19
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4965 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    No guys,
    I didn't say I expected Airport support, just that lack of it is disappointing.
    Alternatives to that support will have to do.
    And Andreas knows we've been hearing some comments lately that made R300 3D look unlikely.
    So that's no surprise.
    We'll get it (eventually).

    Personally, I don't use wireless internet often (prefering hardwired connections.
    So, as has been said before, this release looks good so far.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.11.11 - 00:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I didn't say I expected Airport support, just that lack of it is disappointing.

    Then we obviously have different definitions of the term "disappointment". I only ever get the feeling I define as disappointment when something I've exptected or seriously hoped for doesn't occur. To my mind there was no reason to expect or seriously hope for AirPort or even AirPort Extreme support in the next MorphOS release as everything the MorphOS Team members have been saying on that matter pointed to it not being included. In fact, I would have considered it a big surprise if it made it there.

    > Andreas knows we've been hearing some comments lately that made
    > R300 3D look unlikely.

    Those were non-public comments made at the same time as public statements to the opposite effect.

    > So that's no surprise.

    And you're disappointed nonetheless?
  • »15.11.11 - 01:02
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  • Moderator
    Senex
    Posts: 497 from 2003/2/17
    From: Hannover / Ger...
    Nice to see Grunch getting included, hopefully this will yield sufficient support for filling its database.

    Not being obsessed with privacy protection, but just curious, since there had been quite some discussion at amiga-news.de about Grunch in the past:

    Can we expect that when included into MorphOS 3.x the "calling home" option (picture download for installed software found) is disabled by default?

    (Sorry if that's already the case with current v1.28, my MorphOS setup is not up-to-date ATM, this will change with 3.0 release.)
  • »15.11.11 - 05:43
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  • Moderator
    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    takemehomegrandma,
    Quote:

    Personally, I think the Panels/Subdocks is a more pressing matter, something all MorphOS users needs (not just powerbook, like the case with "Airport"), and one of the most prominent and obvious aspects of the GUI, one of the first thing you notice (as a new user) and will want to use. It should be good looking, feature rich, and easy to use!


    If you don't like Ambient built-in Docks you can always use PolyNet. Me never used Ambient panels, because of their limitations.

    PegasosII "Elite" Machine --> PowerMac MDD "popular" Machine --> MacMini 1.5 "still more popular" Machine
  • »15.11.11 - 09:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2710 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    If you don't like Ambient built-in Docks you can always use PolyNet. Me never used Ambient panels, because of their limitations.


    That's exactly what I'm talking about, Ambient's current panels are too limited and AFAIK no visible development has gone into those since MorphOS 1.x or so, and it's not an ideal situation to rely on third party solutions for important parts of your OS IMHO (like when we had to use third party TCP/IP stacks, etc). In MorphOS, you don't have to download AHI, MUI, CGX, Poseidon, etc. It's included and integrated. It's there when you boot the install CD for the first time. It makes the OS complete! :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.11.11 - 09:31
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    thefab
    Posts: 87 from 2003/8/19
    From: dtc
    hello,

    looking at the updated 3d drivers, is there a huge gap in performance between a 9000pro and a 9800 pro ?
  • »15.11.11 - 15:29
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 730 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @takemehomegrandma

    Quote:

    Personally, I think the Panels/Subdocks is a more pressing matter, something all MorphOS users needs (not just powerbook, like the case with "Airport"), and one of the most prominent and obvious aspects of the GUI, one of the first thing you notice (as a new user) and will want to use. It should be good looking, feature rich, and easy to use!


    I'm not much interested in panels&amidocks, I think an sBar launcher may be enough for me and would integrate better wiht the OS.

    I prefer toolsdaemon-like personalized menus as these are faster and make more sense on MorphOS /AmigaOS.
  • »14.12.11 - 15:26
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 985 from 2004/9/23
    Crumb,
    Quote:

    I think an sBar launcher may be enough for me


    Then you may just need MMKeyboard or Meridian, which both support a pop down start menu.

    Geit
  • »14.12.11 - 17:51
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Nice to see Grunch getting included

    According to a recent statement from the author, Grunch (and MagicBeacon) won't be included in MorphOS 3.0:

    http://www.pegasosforum.de/viewtopic.php?p=49613#p49613
  • »24.04.12 - 13:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Quote:

    For the rest, even if ICeFS, Helios don't make it for 3.0 release, they're still available separately anyway. :)




    Fab

    Why is it so difficult to integrate a File System and a FW stack into the operating system?

    3.0 is taking a lot longer than expected but looks to be the best release since 2.x
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »25.05.12 - 11:36
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1212 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    Fab

    Why is it so difficult to integrate a File System and a FW stack into the operating system?

    3.0 is taking a lot longer than expected but looks to be the best release since 2.x


    i suppose they don't fit the quality standard yet.
  • »25.05.12 - 11:59
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