New Modern Webkit-based Browser In Development
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    So what benefit does the "hibernate Tab" context menu option offer, i.e. RAM released?



    It saves RAM/CPU by killing the underlying browser object.

    Quote:

    Any further along with audio/video implementation, or is that going to be addressed at a later stage in development?


    Post 3.14.

    Quote:

    Is the implementation we use of "flashplayer" likely to see any improvement for Wayfarer?


    Support for plug-ins isn't planned. Flash is dead anyway.

    Quote:

    By the way, is it possible to have realised by now if there now likely to be a 'fix' in Wayfarer (...) due to the JavaScript tying up valuable RAM and not getting released until the browser is quit?


    So far I have not seen issues like this and none have been reported to me. This is a vastly newer WebKit and Apple is generally trying to keep some reins on JS - since it has to work on low-end iPhones. That said, there's still room for improvement.

    Quote:

    Is a JIT JavaScript engine likely to be a feature?


    Bigfoot has shared his JIT code, but the JavaScriptCore has diverged quite a bit and it won't merge without significant amount of work. Might take a look at this at a later stage.

    Quote:

    How much base RAM is required to load up Wayfarer, and how much RAM is generally required for each additional Tab that is activated, if you have an amount you can average out?


    Wayfarer binary is coming close to 80MB, so I'd estimate it needs about 128MB free RAM to start. Adding tabs is relatively cheap, but obviously depends on how heavy the websites are.

    Quote:

    Will there be an editable QuickLinks feature for bookmarks in Wayfarer


    Perhaps at a later stage.
  • »02.09.20 - 13:43
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 638 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    Flash should've been killed 10 years ago. They are way too late, but thats still better than never
    Pegasos II G4 @1.0GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9200Pro, 160GB+500GB HD, MorphOS 3.13, AmigaOS4.1 FE, MacOS X Panther 10.3.9, Debian 8
  • »02.09.20 - 11:19
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1237 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    Is the implementation we use of "flashplayer" likely to see any improvement for Wayfarer?


    Adobe announced back in 2017 that Flash has reached end of life status and all download options will be removed from their website by the end of 2020.

    Consequently, all major browser vendors have also announced plans to remove Flash support some time this year.
  • »02.09.20 - 08:27
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 903 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    So what benefit does the "hibernate Tab" context menu option offer, i.e. RAM released? Or is it more of a 'gimmick'/fun feature? Thanks for your additional work on Wayfarer to accomplish this.

    Any further along with audio/video implementation, or is that going to be addressed at a later stage in development?

    Is the implementation we use of "flashplayer" likely to see any improvement for Wayfarer?

    By the way, is it possible to have realised by now if there now likely to be a 'fix' in Wayfarer for the RAM lock we suffer from, with OWB, due to the JavaScript tying up valuable RAM and not getting released until the browser is quit?

    Is a JIT JavaScript engine likely to be a feature, to keep our PPC CPU overheads to a minimum?

    How much base RAM is required to load up Wayfarer, and how much RAM is generally required for each additional Tab that is activated, if you have an amount you can average out?

    I mean if a MacMini has a max of 1GB, then how much RAM is going to be required to get it started, and any subsequent Tabs, and is the RAM 'lock' still an issue to be borne in mind?

    Will there be an editable QuickLinks feature for bookmarks in Wayfarer, as I haven't noticed much of that featured in the screengrabs so far? I know there is a screengrab on thread #127 which shows a few quicklinks, but will this be as complete a feature as it is in OWB, as I find it handy having the webpage mini-logo on the button(s).

    I can tell you're busy, so by all means answer these questions when you've got more time to do so ... if that's ever going to be likely! 8-D
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »02.09.20 - 05:13
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
  • »02.09.20 - 01:02
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    If so, was that a specific decision to choose that way?


    I like experimenting to see how far I can take such things with MUI. Have also found it very irritating OWB has so many windows - I already have a ton of other windows opened when I'm working, so having a browser on one helps me streamline how I work on MorphOS (never been a fan of separate screens). Anyway, you can always popup a new window with just the settings tab if that works for you.

    Quote:

    I did notice the "MorphOS; PowerPC 3_14" in what I assume is the browser identifier. So, is that what you are aiming for - a release of a useable version of Wayfarer in MorphOS v3.14? :-?


    Not sure if Wayfarer will end up on 3.14 ISO, but it will be made public on the day 3.14 is out.
  • »01.09.20 - 13:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11059 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the settings/Prefs load into a Tab, rather than as a MUI Window - is that correct?

    Yes, see his comment #153.

    > [...] what I assume is the browser identifier

    User agent (string) is the general term for this, as used in the Wayfarer settings.
  • »01.09.20 - 06:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 903 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    So the settings/Prefs load into a Tab, rather than as a MUI Window - is that correct?

    If so, was that a specific decision to choose that way?

    Many browsers opt for this "Tab" approach it seems, like Firefox, though I do like the separate MUI window as a separate entity that gets loaded to change the prefs with OWB, and previous Amiga-like browsers did historically.

    However, I can easily get used to this way as it is a much more common approach, and if we get any newer users then they would probably expect the browser to load Options/Prefs in this way.

    Any success or in-roads into getting audio and video implemented as yet?

    Thanks for the screenshot of your considerable work, and thanks for the work itself, you are amazing at the efficiency level you seem to work at! :-o

    I did notice the "MorphOS; PowerPC 3_14" in what I assume is the browser identifier. So, is that what you are aiming for - a release of a useable version of Wayfarer in MorphOS v3.14? :-?
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »01.09.20 - 00:21
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada


    Some new settings. Did a little bit of tweaking in WebCore to enable throttling - which basically means lowering refresh frame rates and DOM timer frequencies. This should help reduce CPU usage on heavier websites. I've also added basic Arexx support so that Wayfarer can be set as default web browser.
  • »31.08.20 - 20:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1894 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Looking good. I cant wait to try it out!
    AmigaOne X5000 with MorphOS Installed
    Powerbook 1.67GHZ
    Powermac Dual 2.0 GHZ G5 (Registration #1894)
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    Need Repairs, upgrades or a recap in the USA? Visit my website at http://www.acill.com
  • »24.08.20 - 02:23
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Took some time to re-write the drawing code. Odyssey would normally repaint whenever WebCore requested an update, while my old code aggregated WebCore changes into a biggest common rectangle. The new code splits the visible area into 64x64 tiles (just like Enhanced Display, by the way). This is very efficient when dealing with multiple damaged areas in one redraw pass. This has also let me use ScrollWindowRaster for vertical scrolling, greatly improving scroll's performance.

    Also, figured I may as well enable sub-pixel antialias...

  • »24.08.20 - 00:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2739 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    We're in a much better situation than Fab was with OWB, so I don't think the maintenance will be a big burden, but we'll see. From past experiences, it was about 2-3 days to switch between WebKit branches 2 years apart.

    So far nobody has come forward with an offer of help, but then again I'd only be looking for certain areas of expertise really (HLS streaming, anyone?)


    Well that is good to hear, that the maintenance won't be a big burden for you and any others that offer to help you. It's a bit surprising to read that, as I thought maintaining a web browser, with the constant changes that keep happening, would be more difficult and time consuming. I'm also glad to see that you have mentioned the specific area you could use some help with, as that increases the chances of finding someone to help out (chances have now gone from 0.5% chance of finding anyone, to 1.5% chance of finding helpers ;-)). I wish I had the programming skills to provide help with this or any other part of MorphOS development, but by the time my programming skills get anywhere near yours, I'll be so old I won't be able to remember what I did 15 minutes ago (hmmm, what did I do 15 minutes ago???). I was asked to help with documentation for MorphOS years ago, but not having any previous experience with how to document software, I failed to even understand what was being asked of me.

    Thanks again for all the work you have done and continue to do on this and all other MorphOS development. I'll send more pizza and beer money when I can.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »21.08.20 - 16:49
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    We're in a much better situation than Fab was with OWB, so I don't think the maintenance will be a big burden, but we'll see. From past experiences, it was about 2-3 days to switch between WebKit branches 2 years apart.

    So far nobody has come forward with an offer of help, but then again I'd only be looking for certain areas of expertise really (HLS streaming, anyone?)
  • »21.08.20 - 15:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2739 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:


    Just finished implementing this stuff...


    Great progress you are making, congrats and thank you!

    Any luck in finding other programmers who are capable and willing to help you with this project? Not only for now during initial development, but as we all know, a Web Browser is never a finished product, and constant maintenance will be needed to keep it working in the future, and I would hate to see you having to work on it alone indefinitely. I know that you have mentioned that Piru (and perhaps other members of the Team) have provided core OS components and fixes, that have allowed you to progress further with Wayfarer, but I'm thinking that it would be easier on you in the future, if a group of other programmers would help with maintaining Wayfarer, under your guidance. You will most likely be busy with other projects, as well as developing parts of MorphOS for x64.

    Just trying to suggest ideas so that we don't get a repeat of what happened with OWB/Odyssey.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »19.08.20 - 17:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2648 from 2003/2/24
    It’s very nice to read about your progress with this. Looks excellent! :-D Please continue to keep us updated! :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »19.08.20 - 16:02
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 576 from 2011/11/30
    Jaca you are one step closer becoming a legend ;)
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »18.08.20 - 23:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 903 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ jacadcaps - As always thanks for the update, and it probably took far more work to implement this feature, with a few added bonus options, than otherwise might seem to be the case.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »18.08.20 - 23:12
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada


    Just finished implementing this stuff...
  • »18.08.20 - 21:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 903 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    I forgot to mention, as no-one else at this stage has added to my comments on the PayPal security implementation of reCAPTCHA, that I commented on above, that after you have gained access to that level of security that PayPal have added an additional level of security, that of typing in a series of characters/numbers that are generated by a random security feature, so you have to get past that 2nd level of security that PayPal have implemented, that is on top of (after) you have completed the 1st level of security - the reCAPTCHA feature security barrier.

    I cannot login to Parcel2Go or access some features on the Royal Mail website, due to reCAPTCHA, with OWB anymore either, and loading certain elements of some pages that require heavy (probably in reality unnecessary, other than to prevent older browsers from accessing some sites) use of JavaScript, such as some news sites such as BBC.co.uk pages that offer updated figures on regional COVID-19 infections/deaths where the website paralyzes OWB so that a full reboot is required. I have also had that paralyzing effect on trying to access automated PayPal payments, and probably other sites as well, which I'll try to add here if that is of any benefit to test those sites to ensure Wayfarer can handle such JavaScript features?

    @ jacadcaps - I am sure you are developing Wayfarer as fast as you can, and in any case you have done far more on it than even I expected at this stage, but the rate of change in security/technology waits for no-one.

    Having said that I feel sure we all want it to be at least as much, hopefully more, fun to use than OWB has been for its years of great service.

    I also don't want you to skip any necessary and enhancing features that you can implement before it is made available in a specific MorphOS version release, which I expect that will be the case, unless it is likely to be a separate/stop-gap release once it is completed to allow there and then the solution of accessing many sites that are becoming, day by day it seems, inaccessible with OWB.

    I like the updated Settings image, and look forward to many more views of what we can hopefully expect from Wayfarer from the various elements you develop as fast as you can ... you're enthusiasm and progress is amazing, long may you continue to develop for MorphOS - I don't know what we'd do without you. 8-D

    [ Edited by NewSense 15.08.2020 - 02:51 ]
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »15.08.20 - 02:47
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Working as fast as I can, trust me.

    Cloned Vivaldi's settings UI concept, because I really like it. Bit bare bones for now but it's bound to grow with time and then the grouping and filtering will come in handy...

  • »14.08.20 - 16:24
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 903 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Well, as far as OWB is concerned I think PayPal is now inaccessible as the reCAPTCHA security barrier is now in place.

    So, the sooner Wayfarer is completed, as far as MorphOS users will probably be concerned, it cannot be completed soon enough. Unless someone knows a way to get past this, but spoofing as iPad, or any of the other spoofing options don't work it seems. Safari 10.0.3 allows you to get to the image checkmark phase, but won't allow you to verify the details, which is the same wth many sites. OWB is just shown as unsupported.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »14.08.20 - 01:56
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2105 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    There is no audio or video support so far. I've enabled media support, but it currently reports no supported codecs (this fixes several sites that expect <audio> and <video> to be exposed to JavaScript). It does not make sense to look into further this at this stage.
  • »07.08.20 - 18:05
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 379 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    connor escribió:
    Quote:

    Templario wrote:
    The great question that nobody dares to ask you..... You browser is good to see porn sites of pictures and videos?
    Sorry for this question, but I think that many of us use the browser besides to visit the Amiga sites the porn sites, in my case yeah, to make the different png icons or models for my erotic free games.



    No, then it will explode, but you can watch these videos that teach you como hacer figuras con globos and Socken stricken mit Lutz.


    It is also true, it is a good idea. ;)
    Free programs&games:
    http://www.morguesoft.eu
  • »07.08.20 - 16:50
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 539 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    Templario wrote:
    The great question that nobody dares to ask you..... You browser is good to see porn sites of pictures and videos?
    Sorry for this question, but I think that many of us use the browser besides to visit the Amiga sites the porn sites, in my case yeah, to make the different png icons or models for my erotic free games.



    No, then it will explode, but you can watch these videos that teach you como hacer figuras con globos and Socken stricken mit Lutz.
  • »07.08.20 - 16:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 379 from 2012/4/28
    The great question that nobody dares to ask you..... You browser is good to see porn sites of pictures and videos?
    Sorry for this question, but I think that many of us use the browser besides to visit the Amiga sites the porn sites, in my case yeah, to make the different png icons or models for my erotic free games.

    [ Editado por Templario 07.08.2020 - 17:28 ]
    Free programs&games:
    http://www.morguesoft.eu
  • »07.08.20 - 16:27
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