MorphZone

Helios, a FireWire stack for MorphOS

Dubba

# 76
Just looking around

Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11

Hello. Has there been enough updates to Helios and MorphOS (the former being integrated into the latter, if I understood things right) so that we can finally boot from external FireWire HDDs?

It is a prerequisite for me to eventually register the product...

Thanks in advance for any help.
»11.04.18 - 20:12

Andreas_Wolf

# 77
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Helios and MorphOS (the former being integrated into the latter,
> if I understood things right)

I don‘t think so.
»11.04.18 - 21:12

amigadave

# 78
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21

From: Northern Calif...

Quote:

Dubba wrote:
Hello. Has there been enough updates to Helios and MorphOS (the former being integrated into the latter, if I understood things right) so that we can finally boot from external FireWire HDDs?

It is a prerequisite for me to eventually register the product...

Thanks in advance for any help.

Seems like a strange "prerequisite", before you will consider registering MorphOS, care to explain why you must have this feature before you can register?
MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
»11.04.18 - 21:35

polluks

# 79
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 803 from 2007/10/23

From: Gelsenkirchen,...

Finally FireWire is old enough to be supported.
Like Objective-C compared to Swift.

[ Editiert durch polluks 11.04.2018 - 23:48 ]
Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · ~~iMac G5 12,1 17", MorphOS 3.18~~
Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.18
»11.04.18 - 21:48

Dubba

# 80
Just looking around

Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11

Quote:

amigadave wrote:
Seems like a strange "prerequisite", before you will consider registering MorphOS, care to explain why you must have this feature before you can register?

Why do you find it strange? It's simple: I have very little Amiga knowledge currently, and, hence, currently, very little interest in it when compared to the other OS options on PowerPC platforms (BSD, GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Mac OS X).

However, I am willing to give the Amiga family of OSes a fair chance. But I can't afford to sacrifice my limited internal drive's space for something that is, currently, less than a whim, and when my free time is sadly very limited. I DO have, however, available free disk space in an external HDD drive.

That is all.

Quote:

polluks wrote:
Finally FireWire is old enough to be supported.
Like Objective-C compared to Swift.

[ Editiert durch polluks 11.04.2018 - 23:48 ]

Oh, by supported, you mean we can boot MorphOS from it? Or do you mean simply that MorphOS can work with them? The latter I'm aware is already supported, but do you also mean to say so is the former?
»11.04.18 - 22:06

NewSense

# 81
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1513 from 2012/11/10

From: Manchester, UK/GB

Helios, as far as I am aware is at a rudimentary/basic state, and hasn't been progressed for some considerable time, which I consider to be a pity.

There could be plenty of uses/hardware that could be used with the Apple hardware, which was built with Firewire in mind, so hardware wise is a really good implementation, but we seriously lack the software to make good use of it, which I would contribute to a bounty to see it brought up to the standard that Apple developed it to.

I have a Griffin Firewave external 5.1 sound card, but that would require software to get it to work for MorphOS, though I can use it on Mac OSX when I boot into that OS, which is more of a rarity than me using MorphOS.
MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
»12.04.18 - 04:32

koszer

# 82
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1250 from 2004/2/8

From: Poland

And why wouldn't you simply boot from an externaal USB drive?
»12.04.18 - 05:35

Zylesea

# 83
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2057 from 2003/6/4

Quote:

Dubba wrote:
--- Firewire stack ---

It's unlikely that the existing firewire stack will get integrated into MorphOS. The current state is too beta and further development by the initial developer seems rather unlikely (IIRC Yomgui has moved to Canada and is AFAIK sunk in work or so, at least his developments seem effectively rather frozen albeit he hasn't left actively the scene).
--
http://via.bckrs.de

Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
»12.04.18 - 07:13

Dubba

# 84
Just looking around

Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11

Thanks for the replies, y'all!

Quote:

koszer wrote:
And why wouldn't you simply boot from an external USB drive?

The Mac mini G4, which is my main intent to use MorphOS on (which would have been the Quad G5, only if MorphOS supported any of the multicore, PCIe PowerMac G5s...) only has 2 USB slots, and those are already taken by a mouse and a keyboard (I don't yet have that Apple keyboard that includes an USB slot itself, and I currently lack access to reliable USB hubs).

Besides, I do already use that FW drive to boot many other OSes (FreeBSD, NetBSD, YDL, Gentoo and Debian GNU/Linux, specific Mac OS X versions), so I wouldn't want to plug yet another drive, and you can't boot from an USB drive on PowerMacs, lest you access Open Firmware each time and use some voodoo, the problem being having to do that every time I boot (and not the voodoo itself).

There is actually another issue with MorphOS which I haven't mentioned so far, and that is the fact it doesn't display anything at all no matter what I do when I'm using my main monitor, which is a Samsung Full HD LED display. I don't have a setup where I can viably switch monitors, but I did dust off a CRT one and confirmed I can boot (and see) MorphOS with it just fine, but I can't keep using that monitor for space reasons.
I use everything else with that monitor just fine, over a VGA cable. (DVI-to-HDMI also works, but the image then gets really bad.) Even Mac OS 9, which was recently made bootable into the Mac mini G4, works with that monitor

Oh, well...
»12.04.18 - 13:41

Andreas_Wolf

# 85
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> MorphOS [...] doesn't display anything at all no matter what I do
> when I'm using my main monitor

"The boot menu can be opened by using F1 or pressing your left mouse button during the boot up"
http://www.morphos-team.net/faq

Tried this?
»12.04.18 - 15:07

Dubba

# 86
Just looking around

Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> MorphOS [...] doesn't display anything at all no matter what I do
> when I'm using my main monitor

"The boot menu can be opened by using F1 or pressing your left mouse button during the boot up"
http://www.morphos-team.net/faq

Tried this?

I haven't, since it's listed under Efika & Pegasos. Should I? If so, I'll give it a try tonight after work. Thanks for the tip.

Speaking of the FAQ, I noticed the NVRAM and PRAM resetting tips, but having reset them recently (for different reasons), this didn't work for my display with MorphOS, sadly.
»12.04.18 - 17:32

Kronos

# 87
Moderator

Posts: 2323 from 2003/2/24

One way to fix DCC issues like yours is to fake an entry for your FullHD TV.

Boot and install with the working CRT, then boot with the TV.
Boot again with the CRT to check wether an entry for your TV has been created.

If so, source a file for any given FullHD display and overwrite the one created for yours with it.

It should now work with the TV.

Even easier might be hooking it up with DVI or DVI2HDMI as VGA is more prone to DCC errors.
»12.04.18 - 19:51

amigadave

# 88
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21

From: Northern Calif...

Quote:

Dubba wrote:
Quote:

amigadave wrote:
Seems like a strange "prerequisite", before you will consider registering MorphOS, care to explain why you must have this feature before you can register?

Why do you find it strange? It's simple: I have very little Amiga knowledge currently, and, hence, currently, very little interest in it when compared to the other OS options on PowerPC platforms (BSD, GNU/Linux, Mac OS, Mac OS X).

However, I am willing to give the Amiga family of OSes a fair chance. But I can't afford to sacrifice my limited internal drive's space for something that is, currently, less than a whim, and when my free time is sadly very limited. I DO have, however, available free disk space in an external HDD drive.

That is all.

Now that you have explained your interest level, and hardware limitations, I don't see any reason for you to register MorphOS at all, until some time in the future, when you find yourself more interested in using it. If buying a USB hub, so you can boot MorphOS from a USB thumb drive is not desirable to you, then paying the registration fee for something you are barely interested in, doesn't make sense either.

I hope you can figure out your monitor problems with the help of other users here, and that you eventually get a USB hub, so you can more easily boot and play around with MorphOS, so you can fall in love with it, like so many users have already. If that happens, I'm sure you will figure out a way to find or buy the hardware you need to run it best.

In the meanwhile, enjoy the forum, and ask all the questions you need answered, most folks here are quite friendly.
MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
»14.04.18 - 00:28

Dubba

# 89
Just looking around

Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11

Thanks, I'll try things out little by little as time goes. I appreciate everyone's support so far. (Thanks, Kronos!)

You're right I'm not ready to buy MorphOS yet, but about the USB hub, just to provide some clarification...:

Quote:

amigadave wrote:
Now that you have explained your interest level, and hardware limitations, I don't see any reason for you to register MorphOS at all, until some time in the future, when you find yourself more interested in using it. If buying a USB hub, so you can boot MorphOS from a USB thumb drive is not desirable to you, then paying the registration fee for something you are barely interested in, doesn't make sense either.

Actually, it's not the buying of the hub itself that is not desirable per se for me. More specifically, it's because reliable ones tend to be those that are externally-powered, but I currently lack available plugs for it (and I'm already using quite a few plug extensions as is), and those that I used in the past that were not externally-powered would lose its connection to the main computer once every while, and I'm unaware of a brand I can trust.

There's also the problem of going out to buy one: I'm currently busy with some delicate matters (immigration & moving, work etc.), so I can't go out and buy one. Ordering one online may arrive after I moved (or not), and even otherwise it may never arrive due to very, very, very bad customs and mail service here.

Anyway, all in due time, I guess.
»16.04.18 - 13:34

connor

# 90
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 570 from 2007/7/29

I trhink you should try again after you moved. Then you have more time and can go and buy an external hub or order one and it will arrive to you new house. It gets much easier with a hub: you can connect your mouse and keyboard and other stuff to it and still have one slot free for the USB thumb drive for MorphOS updates or other stuff. The only problem is with keyboards through a hub that the Apple firmware is very miffed about any other keyboard than Apple keyboard. So when you have to edit the firwamre this is a PITA. For example keyboard input is almost impossible with maaaaaany standard USB keyboards. But hey, that's the Apple business! Forbid everything and make extra profit through dongled hardware.
»16.04.18 - 16:41

gazza

# 91
Just looking around

Posts: 9 from 2018/4/8

good news!!
»20.04.18 - 10:22

Andreas_Wolf

# 92
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> good news!!

Which one?
»20.04.18 - 11:06

Andreas_Wolf

# 93
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Addendum:

>> Helios and MorphOS (the former being integrated into the latter,
>> if I understood things right)

> I don‘t think so.

It has happened eventually:

"Integrated Helios FireWire support for mac_ppc32/mac_ppc64 architectures
[...]
Added Firewire debugging to bootargs on the Macs"
https://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.12
»03.10.19 - 09:58

amifrog

# 94

Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 141 from 2017/8/6

It works!

Thank you very much, guys!

I did a quick test on a PB5,4 with a FireWire-CF-reader (DeLock 91694), using a FAT-formatted 4GB card.

Really nice!!

(Can't attach picture)
9ylxn2bt_jpg.htm

These are the results from DiskSpeed on that device:
Code:


DiskSpeed 5.0 Copyright � 1995-2004 The AROS Development Team, 2012-2013 The MorphOS Team DiskSpeed 5.0 (7.5.2013)

------------------------------------------------------------------
Processor: PPC MorphOS: 51.42
Device: sbp2:    Buffers: <information unavailable>

Testing directory manipulation speed.
File Create:         1316 files/sec  |  CPU Available: 96%
File Open:           4112 files/sec  |  CPU Available: 0%
Directory Scan:     61727 files/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%
File Delete:        10630 files/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%

Seek/Read:          32936 seeks/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%

Testing with a 512 byte, LONG-aligned buffer.
Create file:      1753721 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 78%
Write to file:   24938115 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 1%
Read from file:  34528573 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%

Testing with a 4096 byte, LONG-aligned buffer.
Create file:      1779424 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 93%
Write to file:  172637081 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 1%
Read from file: 260931578 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 1%

Testing with a 32768 byte, LONG-aligned buffer.
Create file:      1687082 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 96%
Write to file:    1764994 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 97%
Read from file:  15607507 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 89%

Testing with a 262144 byte, LONG-aligned buffer.
Create file:      2607928 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 97%
Write to file:    3233640 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 97%
Read from file:  19734280 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 95%

Testing with a 512 byte, WORD-aligned buffer.
Create file:      2430558 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 77%
Write to file:   23958595 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 7%
Read from file:  34420790 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%

Testing with a 4096 byte, WORD-aligned buffer.
Create file:      7824533 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 80%
Write to file:  182967161 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 1%
Read from file: 259899080 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%

Testing with a 32768 byte, WORD-aligned buffer.
Create file:      2577550 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 95%
Write to file:    3771090 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 95%
Read from file:  13014901 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 90%

Testing with a 262144 byte, WORD-aligned buffer.
Create file:      3290761 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 97%
Write to file:    4508536 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 97%
Read from file:  19301596 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 95%

Testing with a 512 byte, BYTE-aligned buffer.
Create file:      5338930 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 52%
Write to file:   24138888 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 1%
Read from file:  34481033 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%

Testing with a 4096 byte, BYTE-aligned buffer.
Create file:      7800523 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 81%
Write to file:  183248807 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 9%
Read from file: 259964401 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 2%

Testing with a 32768 byte, BYTE-aligned buffer.
Create file:      2989839 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 94%
Write to file:    3491722 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 96%
Read from file:  14740273 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 86%

Testing with a 262144 byte, BYTE-aligned buffer.
Create file:      2739614 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 94%
Write to file:    3529053 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 96%
Read from file:  14214456 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 87%

Average CPU Available: 56%

[ Edited by amifrog 22.11.2019 - 10:22 ]

»21.11.19 - 16:50

Andreas_Wolf

# 95

Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Code:

Testing with a 4096 byte, LONG-aligned buffer.
[...]
Write to file:  172637081 bytes/sec  [...]
Read from file: 260931578 bytes/sec

[...]

Testing with a 4096 byte, WORD-aligned buffer.
[...]
Write to file:  182967161 bytes/sec [...]
Read from file: 259899080 bytes/sec

[...]

Testing with a 4096 byte, BYTE-aligned buffer.
[...]
Write to file:  183248807 bytes/sec [...]
Read from file: 259964401 bytes/sec

These results of 170...180 MB/s write performance and 260 MB/s read performance for 4 KiB chunks seem rather strange considering that the theoretical maximum of FireWire 800 is about 100 MB/s.

»21.11.19 - 17:34

amifrog

# 96
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 141 from 2017/8/6

Yes, but i don't know why?
Maybe this 'DiskSpeed' is some 68k tool and therefore something is translated wrong to the PPC environment...
»21.11.19 - 17:39

Andreas_Wolf

# 97
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Maybe this 'DiskSpeed' is some 68k tool

"DiskSpeed 5.0 Copyright [...] 2012-2013 The MorphOS Team DiskSpeed 5.0 (7.5.2013)" in /Applications/Benchmark/ on the MorphOS ISO image is PPC-native.
»21.11.19 - 18:48

amifrog

# 98
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 141 from 2017/8/6

Well, i have no clue. I hesitate to connect a 'real' FW drive, as i don't have a spare for testing purposes at the moment.
The CF seems to work fine though.
»21.11.19 - 19:03

igracki

# 99
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 416 from 2003/2/24

From: Berlin

Quote:

Yomgui wrote:
New release done this morning on Aminet:

http://aminet.net/driver/other/Helios_0.3.323.lha

This one handle isochronous mode in receive mode.
So I've made a small code example to show how to use that.

This example is useful also because it permit to capture the broadcast audio/video stream from a camcorder supporting the IEC 61883 protocol and giving MPEG2-TS or DV format.

the code is located in SDK/Examples/, file get61883.c.
Compile it using command 'make get61883' in its directory if you've installed the MorphOS SDK.

For thus they don't want or don't able to build it, this is a binary:

http://www.yomgui.fr/projects/get61883

First thing to do before launching it is to execute FWInspect before to let it enumerate devices and their capabilities. then get61883

Simple usage: get61883 [-dv] output

-dv is optional and switch into DV format (MPEG2-TS by default).
output is the output file where the stream will be written.

CTRL-E to finish the write at any moment.
The file is written using the asyncio library.

Good experimentation

I found my old MiniDV Cam and noticed that it has firewire port and wanted to test it, so I bought the needed cable and connected it to my G5.

Unfortunately I can't find the "get6183" binary nor the source.

Can someone point me to a location where I can find the get6183 binary?
And is this GUI version, which Yomgui showed in his video, somewhere available?
»06.08.20 - 21:10

NewSense

# 100
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1513 from 2012/11/10

From: Manchester, UK/GB

I found this on Yomgui's Wiki, which is the only reference I found that mentions the "get61883", bu the Aminet archive for v0.3.323 does not seem to be on Aminet, as it's been replaced with a later version of Helios (0.4 beta) so it may not be so useful.

There is also the Helios v0.5.622 on the older MorphOS Files website but I don't think this has within it what you are looking for either, sadly.
MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
»07.08.20 - 00:20