During the presentation, i explained what was already done (or almost finished, at least) and what was yet to be done. Regarding powerbook support, there's even a color code in the slide to show the current state of completion.

For instance, RV300 3D, "Airport" and power management are things that are still to be done, but that are in the objectives of 3.x.


[ Edited by Fab 14.11.2011 - 10:17 ]

So no Airport board support in 3.0..
and neither 3D drivers for RV300 will be in 3.0!?

> the developer team themselves promising things that turns out to be
> missing out when the thing actually gets here

That's not what happened. After all, OS4.2 isn't here yet, isn't it? Ssolie's rowing back and postponing took place a couple of days after his infamous AmiWest 2009 announcements.

> don't shoot the messenger

This concept doesn't really apply when the messenger alters the message, i.e. changes "3.x" to "3.0", does it? ;-)

> I think this list still is kind of complete for 3.0 release

Yes, but the thing is that it has everything for 3.0 *and more*, and we do not know what's for 3.0 and what's only for later, which also doesn't have to mean 3.1 necessarily.

> some things (is WPA/WPA2 finished in AROS yet? Airport? Etc) might need
> more developing time?

According to geit, AirPort support and SMBFS will not be in 3.0, among other things he didn't specify. The statement about AirPort has also been confirmed by jacadcaps. And as Fab just revealed, 3.0 will come without 3D support for R300.

> When MorphOS [...] has come as far as it possibly can on PPC
> [...]
> MorphOS will make the most out of the PPC platform
> [...]
> when it can't get any further, when all HW has been supported

According to the translation of Fab's outlook that's not decided yet. Should the MorphOS Team decide to skip G5 Macs then MorphOS definitely won't have "come as far as it possibly can on PPC" and won't have made "the most out of the PPC platform".

> I'll be able to use the BUILT-IN Airport of my PowerBook 5,8 [...]?

Notwithstanding the confusion about 3.0 vs. 3.x, the list doesn't say anything about AirPort *Extreme*, which is what the PowerBooks to be supported by MorphOS have built-in and which is a different beast compared to original AirPort.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6042&start=14

On the other hand, "AirPort" is listed under "Nouveautés générales" as well as under "Nouveautés liées au PowerBook", so it probably means "original AirPort" in one place and "AirPort Extreme" in the other place, or even "AirPort Extreme" in both places.

> During the presentation, i explained what was already done (or almost finished,
> at least) and what was yet to be done. Regarding powerbook support, there's
> even a color code in the slide to show the current state of completion.

Instead of going through the published list step by step now and clarifying for each listed feature if that will be in 3.0 or not, could you please publish your slides for download? I think that would make for a simple solution to avoid some of this unnerving questioning from us ordinary mortals ;-)

What I know so far from this and other threads, the following features from the list won't make it into 3.0:

- R300 3D
- power management
- SMBFS
- AirPort

Any more?

The future looks good

@andreas

Well, if you want: https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AY7XPx7zi4LBZGNicmc4amZfNDZmYm1iaHJkZw

(the presentation was shown with OWB in fullscreen mode)

Legend:
green : planned for 3.0.
orange: not started/still quite some work to do/to be discussed depending on planning. In any case, planned for further 3.x releases.



[ Edited by Fab 14.11.2011 - 14:08 ]

@Fab

Since you marked the new panels orange anyway I can continue slacking

But honestly 6 weeks or less would have been a bit short for final-fixes, intregration into current 3.0-Ambient and some testing anyway......

There is allways 3.1

@Kronos

Up to you that i make it green. :)

> https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AY7XPx7zi4LBZGNicmc4amZfNDZmYm1iaHJkZw

Thanks, very appreciated.

> the presentation was shown with OWB in fullscreen mode

You are right. Admittedly, I hadn't watched the video, hence my request. Just have had a look into the video now and realized that the quality is decent enough for me to not really require the actual slides, so sorry for pestering you about it ;-)

> Legend:
> green : planned for 3.0.
> orange: [...] planned for further 3.x releases.

Alright, so I can extend the list of features that will not make it into 3.0:

- R300 3D
- power management (processor speed, low power GPU mode, disable modem, network)
- SMBFS (?)
- SSHFS
- IceFS
- AirPort
- Helios
- transparent Ambient panels
- Ambient sub-docks and plugins

Btw, how come "SMBFS" is in green on your slide when geit says that it won't come in 3.0?

@andreas

Transparent panels and subdocks are the same thing. And as said above, it depends if Kronos has enough time to iron out some bugs, finalize and integrate it for 3.0 or not.

As for SMBFS, i guess Geit believed i referred to a FUSE-based SMBFS. I refer to the one we already have on MorphOS/AmigaOS, but with large file support.

For the rest, even if ICeFS, Helios don't make it for 3.0 release, they're still available separately anyway. :)



[ Edited by Fab 14.11.2011 - 15:08 ]

Personally, its the lack of R300 3D and Airport drivers that disappoints me.
But I know they will get done eventually.

@Fab

That's quite a lot of green anyway!

> Transparent panels and subdocks are the same thing.

Okay.

> As for SMBFS, i guess Geit believed i referred to a FUSE-based SMBFS. I refer
> to the one we already have on MorphOS/AmigaOS, but with large file support.

Thanks for clarification. So it will be Olsen's Piru-enhanced SMBFS, fine :-)

> For the rest, even if ICeFS, Helios don't make it for 3.0 release, they're still
> available separately anyway. :)

Yes, of course :-)

So this is the revised list of the mentioned features that will only come after 3.0:

- R300 3D
- VBO
- power management (processor speed, low power GPU mode, disable modem, network, power down HDD)
- SSHFS
- IceFS (currently available as 3rd party)
- AirPort (Extreme?)
- Helios (currently available as 3rd party)
- transparent Ambient panels with sub-docks and plugins

> Personally, its the lack of R300 3D and Airport drivers that disappoints me.

Disappointment regarding lack of R300 3D drivers is fully understandable, but did you really expect AirPort or even AirPort Extreme support to be in the next MorphOS release? I mean, it was nowhere and nowhen hinted at by the MorphOS Team, so it couldn't be expected to be there. As kind of "workaround" there is always PCMCIA/CardBus in the PowerBook and PCI in the PowerMac.

Jim,
Quote:

Mee too.

[ Edited by Miky060 14.11.2011 - 18:41 ]

@Jim, Miky060

Guys, guys! You're just seeing the orange, look at all the green!

(Although noting that green is only planned for 3.0, not written in stone.)

Support du PowerBook G4 (modèles 5,6 à 5,9).
Transferts AGP sur les plateformes le supportant (macs).
Pilotes WIFI et intégration à la couche TCP/IP : Atheros5000,
Pilotes SATA et SCSI (Symbios) fonctionnels sur PowerMac G4.
Pilotes 3D plus rapides,
Composants systèmes améliorés : MUI, Ambient, Multiview, HDConfig, mount.library, ...
Nouvelles applications : client FTP/SFTP, logiciel de gravure CD/DVD, nouveau lecteur PDF, éditeur de texte moderne, ...
Systèmes de fichiers : NTFS3G (écriture), SMBFS (64bits)
Touchpad et gestures (scrolling, bouton droit, ...).
Spécificités du clavier (touche Fn, touches de luminosité,...).
Prise en charge des différentes dalles graphiques (15", 17" et leurs variantes...)
Port Cardbus (PCMCIA).
Pilotes WIFI : Atheros5k (via Cardbus), Airport
Couche WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant) en collaboration avec AROS.
Surveillance des capteurs : vitesse des ventilateurs, niveau de la batterie, température, ...
Gestion contrôlée de l'énergie de différents composants en fonction des capteurs et préférences utilisateur (luminosité, rétroéclairage clavier,)
Pilotes SATA et Symbios fonctionnant sur PowerMac G4
Transferts AGP (4x, >1Go/s), utile en cas de swap de vram, lecture vidéo, 3D, ...
Pilotes WIFI Atheros 5k (carte PCI)
Pilotes 3D plus rapides,
Portage de la couche FUSE, permettant le portage de certains filesystems opensource plus aisément.
NTFS3g (support écriture)
SMBFS (64bits)
Ambient : miniatures vidéo, ...
MUI : effet de désactivation amélioré, rendu du cadre de l'objet actif configurable, onglets réorganisables, ...
Multiview : intégration de plus de formats et nouvelles fonctionnalités
Intégration WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant), indicateurs, configuration, ...
HDConfig/mount.library : meilleure gestion des tables de partitions mac
Cairo/Pixman/Fontconfig fournis avec le système
MagicBeacon : notifications visuelles sur différents types d'évènements (nouveau mail, téléchargement fini, dvd inséré, ...), hautement configurable (contrib ?)
Grunch : gestionnaire de paquets (contrib ?)
Jalapeno : logiciel de gravure CD/DVD et création d'ISO, pilotable depuis Ambient, ...
VPDF : lecteur PDF moderne et compatible, avec vues multiples, basé sur le moteur Poppler.
Transfer : client FTP et SFTP, vues multiples.
Scribble : éditeur de texte/sources, basé sur Scintilla. Gestion de projet, autocomplétion, aide contextuelle, colorisation syntaxique pour différents langages,...
Odyssey Web Browser : synchronisation fréquente avec WebKit, ajout de nouvelles fonctionnalités, ...

[ Edited by boot_wb 14.11.2011 - 19:13 ]

Quote:



Well that's good enough for me! Roll on 3.0!

[ Edited by stephen_robinson 14.11.2011 - 19:56 ]

@Jim, Miky060

Personally, I think the Panels/Subdocks is a more pressing matter, something all MorphOS users needs (not just powerbook, like the case with "Airport"), and one of the most prominent and obvious aspects of the GUI, one of the first thing you notice (as a new user) and will want to use. It should be good looking, feature rich, and easy to use!

No guys,
I didn't say I expected Airport support, just that lack of it is disappointing.
Alternatives to that support will have to do.
And Andreas knows we've been hearing some comments lately that made R300 3D look unlikely.
So that's no surprise.
We'll get it (eventually).

Personally, I don't use wireless internet often (prefering hardwired connections.
So, as has been said before, this release looks good so far.

> I didn't say I expected Airport support, just that lack of it is disappointing.

Then we obviously have different definitions of the term "disappointment". I only ever get the feeling I define as disappointment when something I've exptected or seriously hoped for doesn't occur. To my mind there was no reason to expect or seriously hope for AirPort or even AirPort Extreme support in the next MorphOS release as everything the MorphOS Team members have been saying on that matter pointed to it not being included. In fact, I would have considered it a big surprise if it made it there.

> Andreas knows we've been hearing some comments lately that made
> R300 3D look unlikely.

Those were non-public comments made at the same time as public statements to the opposite effect.

> So that's no surprise.

And you're disappointed nonetheless?

Nice to see Grunch getting included, hopefully this will yield sufficient support for filling its database.

Not being obsessed with privacy protection, but just curious, since there had been quite some discussion at amiga-news.de about Grunch in the past:

Can we expect that when included into MorphOS 3.x the "calling home" option (picture download for installed software found) is disabled by default?

(Sorry if that's already the case with current v1.28, my MorphOS setup is not up-to-date ATM, this will change with 3.0 release.)

takemehomegrandma,
Quote:

If you don't like Ambient built-in Docks you can always use PolyNet. Me never used Ambient panels, because of their limitations.

Quote:

That's exactly what I'm talking about, Ambient's current panels are too limited and AFAIK no visible development has gone into those since MorphOS 1.x or so, and it's not an ideal situation to rely on third party solutions for important parts of your OS IMHO (like when we had to use third party TCP/IP stacks, etc). In MorphOS, you don't have to download AHI, MUI, CGX, Poseidon, etc. It's included and integrated. It's there when you boot the install CD for the first time. It makes the OS complete!

hello,

looking at the updated 3d drivers, is there a huge gap in performance between a 9000pro and a 9800 pro ?