First X1000 benchmark revealed
  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1516 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    @MacSociety

    No prob, I wish you enjoy your systems.
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »03.02.12 - 06:25
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    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    itix,
    Quote:

    At least it didn't cost a fortune to buy crap hardware


    Exactly my thoughts. I bought a MacMini, I knew it wasn't state of the art but for the price I paid no biggie. Certainly NOT the case with very expensive low powered hardware, new or old.
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »03.02.12 - 07:07
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Megander
    Posts: 85 from 2011/11/28
    As for the benchmark competition, the motives of both sides are understandable to me. MorphOS user want to assure themselves of still running the fastest hard-/software combination (yet to me there's no point in posting MOS 3.0 benchmarks for they are irrelevant since it's not publicly available) and X1000 customers need reasons to justify their purchase. (Those justifications are, as in every other purchase done out of more emotional reasons than rational ones, made up after the purchase and will not succumb to reasoning but vary and adapt, as the buyer needs his weltanschuung to remain straight by solving cognitive dissonances.)

    And about J-Lo, first of all it would be interesting to know how many minors are on this board and secondly explicit adult websites are more or less available for them as well. I wonder how much harm was done. Those comments I joined in may have been immature but were meant to be humorous.

    I am happy for AOS 4 users to have new hardware. I also wanted one when it was announced some time ago, but then the delay and pricing made me discover MOS. Now I'm here and just as happy.

    A bit of tongue-in-cheek rivalry is nothing bad, I think. And cooperation where cooperation is due!
  • »03.02.12 - 07:34
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    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    Quote:

    MorphOS user want to assure themselves of still running the fastest hard-/software combination


    I couldn't care less, its only natural a 2012 hardware beats half a decade year old hardware. Unless of course its a half decade old pc and still runs circles around anything we have at hand ;)
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »03.02.12 - 09:37
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Ruud
    Posts: 335 from 2009/2/2
    From: Hampshire, UK
    Quote:

    As for the benchmark competition, the motives of both sides are understandable to me. MorphOS user want to assure themselves of still running the fastest hard-/software combination


    As far as I'm concerned for $3000 AmigaOS4.x users are welcome (even deserve the right) to the title of fastest hard-/software combo.

    As a former AmigaOS4.1 user I won't be tempted back until they make massive strides with the OS. Currently the hardware it runs on is irrelevent when there is so much lacking in the OS itself.
    "We live, we die, we laugh, we cry"
  • »03.02.12 - 10:29
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    rebraist
    Posts: 96 from 2011/4/6
    From: Naples, Italy
    I would be happier to have new software than to have new hardware.
    I bought a morphos with mac mini and i use it on a daily basis: sometimes i browse the web, sometimes, i listen some music, sometimes i use dev sdk, sometimes i play a little game, native or with uae, and even use my wacom bamboo with griboullis and all of that in amiga way. I don't feel the lack of power, i feel the lack of an office suite. Just that.
    Mac Mini g4 1,5 mos 3.1 registered
    Powerbook g4 1,67 mos 3.1 unregistered
    Sam440 Os4.1.6
    Aros-Aros-Aros.
  • »03.02.12 - 14:14
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Red,

    Cost has nothing to do with the speed of a system. Specially if you are comparing used gear to new hardware.


    Dave, that statement sounds illogical. Usually someone would expect expensive new hardware to be faster than 10 year old hardware. We aren't comparing apples to oranges here, it is apples to apples PPC platform (no pun intended). It is all PPC. We all came from the same place, classic Amiga. By and large, we are all running the exact same software and often the exact same executables.

    Quote:

    As I have said too many times before. Promote MorphOS with positive actions and not by belittling other people, or their choices. MorphOS should be good enough to stand on it's own merits, without having to disrespect anything, or anyone else.

    (not that I found your post in particular that offensive, but it is the general attitude of MorphOS users that I am trying to change, so we can attract more users and developers and get more software


    (Not all specifically directed at you)
    It is human nature to make comparisons and have a lively discussion. That is why message boards like this exist. I get it, some people want hardware that will run OS4 no matter what the cost. God bless, I am not insulting them personally for their purchase. Everyone was fine with speed comparisons when it looked like the X1000 had a lead. Once it turned out the benchmark data was wrong, people started getting sensitive. About the Sam460/X500 speed, I am really stunned how poorly it performed. That doesn't mean I am calling people idiots for buying it, their purchase not mine.

    It isn't attacking or offensive to make comparisions. What I do find poor form is trying to bury and censor valid data, common sense or opinions in order to promote such an expensive product. Again, not saying you do that but we do know who is trying to do it. At a certain site it seems like 2002 all over. In the past it was "trolling" and "FUD" to state that the A1SE was borked, then USB and DMA on other A1. Now mentioning that SMP is not coming anytime soon is "FUD" and "trolling" and it seems benchmarks too will soon be "trolling". I like my reality real :-)
  • »03.02.12 - 14:25
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    @amigadave

    Sure, you are free to do whatever you want with your money. You could make a big pile of 3,000 dollar bills in your back yard, pour some gasoline on it, light it up and barbecue some hot dogs over the fire. Or make 30 spliffs of hundred dollar bills, and you will feel good for an entire month. Two examples of very expensive "hobbies". But since there are other materials you can use for your barbecue, like charcoal, that has both better features and better price, and since you can roll your cigarettes using other kind of paper that is both cheaper and better, mis-using money this way would easily be perceived as provocative, pointless, or yes indeed, insane.

    An X1000 level of computer (2007 level of performance) should never have left the Excel spread sheet after having calculated the BOM cost and end-user price for motherboards in volume of hundreds, it shouldn't even have entered early design stage. But here it is, system presenting 5 year old computer technology at a cost of 3-4 full 2012 spec'd Core-i7 Gaming Systems, running an OS that is sub-standard in almost all measuring points of features and performance, even in terms of Amiga. Again, you are of course free to do whatever you want with your money, be it your hobby is barbecuing hot dogs over a $3,000 fire, or buying an X1000. But I think both cases pictures an insane misuse of money, and I almost get a little angry when I think what many good things that kind of money could have done, had it been spent differently. But some people don't know the value of money, or don't care. Some people just have "too much" money and don't know what to do with it. Buying crap, paying overprice in gold, just for the fun. Or like the upper class "brats" in Stockholm with daddy's American Express Platinum card in their pocket, truckloads of "old money", going out on über expensive clubs, buying 2 bottles of über expensive Champagne, drinking one and pouring the other one untouched into the sink, just for the "fun" of it. We all have different hobbies. Maybe I am not alone to get provoked by that, having to struggle to make ends meet at the end of the month. I know the value of money.

    Someone said in this thread that OS4 has an advantage of having the "Amiga" name connected to it, but I don't agree, because there will be *no sales* of this hardware to *anyone outside* that little group of people, mostly hanging around AmigaWorld.net and Amigans.net, that *blindly* follows anything Ben Hermans say and do, that follow the Amiga(TM) flag, that literary buys *anything* at *any cost* if it just has Hyperion's blessing and a pinch of The Trademark attached to it (the X1000 is being parasite-marketed as "Amiga" (in quotation marks) by Trevor Dickinson, since they explicitly don't have the right to call it Amiga, but that seems to be enough for the cheerleaders).

    OK, I used the name "nutcases", but maybe it's more like some kind of a closed social club? I remember when "sicky" over at Amigaworld.net got "back into the scene" the other year, by purchasing a Sam board (a similarly insanely over priced and under-performing system that never should have seen the light of day), and if you read all his comments from that time, it becomes *evident* that it mostly was about community for him, wanting to be part of something, wanting a particular kind of friends. He wanted to get in into the club, and payed the entrance fee. If you look at his posts that followed over the following months, you'd understand that he is really clueless about Amiga, doesn't really seem to know what it is, doesn't really care, but gradually learning the limitations over time, and of course quickly forgiving any problems, because that's what you do when you are a club member. You pay, you cheer, you wait. Then you pay, you cheer, you wait. And no, I don't think these are signs of healthy behavior (meaning *mental health*). Blindly throwing away premium money for the worse options, not because of the quality or technical merits (the stuff is worse than the competition), but because it's what Ben Herman's wants you to do, and this sets the norm for the club, and you want to be in the club. I'm sure you are going to be a fine club member, amigadave. You are a moderator there now too, so in combination with your X1000 purchase, maybe this will bring you onto the express way towards a higher social status than most? I'm sure you think it was well spent money, so have fun and enjoy the ride...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.02.12 - 14:35
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    @ Ruud

    "As a former AmigaOS4.1 user I won't be tempted back until they make massive strides with the OS. Currently the hardware it runs on is irrelevent when there is so much lacking in the OS itself."

    +1

    BTW, could you do this test on your 7448? That would be interesting...

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=35053&forum=33&start=240&viewmode=flat&order=0#650877
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.02.12 - 14:40
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    ...and maybe this one as well?

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30693&forum=32#634656

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.02.12 - 14:53
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    @takemehomegrandma,

    After reading that rant of yours which clearly shows that you know nothing about me or my reasons for buying the X1000, or my views about Ben Hermanns and your claims that I (and others) just want to be "In the OS4 Club", combined with the rest of your persistent behavior and obsession with bashing OS4 and Hyperion, it makes me seriously wonder about your mental health.

    It is one thing to disagree with a person, or what a company is doing, or even to dislike them, but to habitually be compelled to trash them at every opportunity seems to me more like some kind of mental illness than the claims you are making about me.



    [ Edited by amigadave 03.02.2012 - 11:01 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.02.12 - 17:11
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Megander
    Posts: 85 from 2011/11/28
    Now there's a sophisticated level of discussion. Jesus Christ, this this poor.
  • »03.02.12 - 19:27
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    @amigadave

    Well I thought you wanted clarifications to my comments of "insanity" regarding the X1000, so I gave it to you. Maybe it was tl;dr so here is the shorter explanation: I think the whole Church of Hyperion that has been going on the last decade is insane. I think the trade mark obsession is insane. I think shifting products through AW.net moderation; "editing the reality" to suit the OS4/AmigaOne agenda that we saw in the past (but maybe we are about to see it again?) is insane. It's not a hobby, it's a cult, a sect, with almost religious undertones. That's insane as well. All that insanity boils down to what we see today; to the X1000. It's built with that insanity as its very ground, it simply *couldn't exist* without it. I think it's insane that someone actually sells PPC motherboards today, with 2007 level technology and performance. But I think it's *even more insane* that people actually buys it, and actually pay, what, $3,000 for it! I simply can't fathom that, it's inconceivable to me, it lacks all logic and reason. But again, you do whatever "Hobby" you want to do with your money, burn them in the back yard, or buy a X1000. As long as you are happy, have fun with it. Drag some screens, play some A500 games with the bundled UAE, do whatever. I will keep thinking it's insane though, a complete and inexcusable misuse of money. If you feel offended by that, or insulted, then I'm sorry, but it's the way I see it...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.02.12 - 20:34
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    clusteruk
    Posts: 47 from 2010/6/24
    This is a funny thread, with performance comparisons and mine is better than yours. Well just for the record Aros on my 3.1ghz AMD is faster than the lot of you, but I defer to the fact that MorphOS is the most advanced shipping OS of all three at the moment, but heh competition is good for the soul and improvements to all. I can say this as I finally have AmigaOS 4.1 :-)

    I am just waiting to for MorphOS on powerbook because I had a short but great time on my eMac which I gave to a developer. I bought a powerbook for my daughters studies for £53 (60 euros) for 1.33ghz and have upped it to 2gb and it is a nice machine for her graphics studies. My point being that I can get a lovely little MorphOS machine for around £100 ish with 1.67ghz processor and display. Hurry up I am really looking forward to it. At least I will not have my camera gagged by NDA :-)

    Finally, to me, having the Amiga logo is good for new users but not to those in the know. I intend getting Aros on the Rasberry Pi over time and at least attract new users to the Amiga way again.

    Anyway, I have an X1000 which is very nice but my awesome Aros machine with GTX460 is really cool at the moment, as well as my little Aspire one. I just want my MorphOS laptop so come on forget porting to X1000 and finish the Powerbook and then port to Arm :-)
  • »03.02.12 - 21:11
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    so come on forget porting to X1000 and finish the Powerbook and then port to Arm :-)


    +1

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.02.12 - 21:19
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    Zylesea
    Posts: 2033 from 2003/6/4
    clusteruk,
    Quote:

    and then port to Arm

    I'd rather prefer x86 - at least unless there's trustworthy confirmation that ARM can handle *true* big endian, which would be some big advantage of ARM then.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »03.02.12 - 21:51
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Not to beat a dead horse, but I still vote for none of the above.
    Don't port to ARM (yet), certainly it would be silly to port to the X1000 (every X1000 sold guarantees an OS4 sale), and there are enough OS' available for the X86 family.

    Port to the G5.
    From what I've seen, MorphOS on a G5 would walk all over OS4 on an X1000.
    The benchmarks would be stupendous.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.02.12 - 21:59
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    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    I agree with Jim: G5 first.

    PegasosII "Elite" Machine --> PowerMac MDD "popular" Machine --> MacMini 1.5 "still more popular" Machine
  • »03.02.12 - 23:25
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Jim,
    Quote:

    Not to beat a dead horse, but I still vote for none of the above.
    Don't port to ARM (yet), certainly it would be silly to port to the X1000 (every X1000 sold guarantees an OS4 sale), and there are enough OS' available for the X86 family.

    Port to the G5.
    From what I've seen, MorphOS on a G5 would walk all over OS4 on an X1000.
    The benchmarks would be stupendous.


    For short term, I agree. For long term, X86 is no question.
  • »04.02.12 - 00:12
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Georg
    Posts: 90 from 2004/4/7
    What about a MOS PPC in little endian mode interim/fun port/project. This could then be used to do endianess fixes in OS and apps even before real port to x86 is started.

    It would surprise me if booting a little endian MOS PPC upto at least opening of Workbench screen would take them more than a couple of days (once a compiler suite is ready).
  • »04.02.12 - 09:19
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What about a MOS PPC in little endian mode interim/fun port/project. [...]
    > It would surprise me if booting a little endian MOS PPC upto at least opening
    > of Workbench screen would take them more than a couple of days

    Of the current machines MorphOS runs on only the Efika 5200B seems to be able to natively run an OS in LE mode.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6268&start=55
  • »04.02.12 - 09:39
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    clusteruk
    Posts: 47 from 2010/6/24
    On the porting front, I have historically always been on the Port to X86 for Amiga flavours. However over a decade later, ARM is on the ascendancy and I see nothing stopping it, hence Windows moving to Arm as well. The world is going fully low power consumption and mobile and Arm is it for the foreseeable future.

    Just to qualify, x86 will be around for a long time, just that the cool system will be Arm.

    [ Edited by clusteruk 04.02.2012 - 11:00 ]
  • »04.02.12 - 10:56
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1516 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    clusteruk,

    The future is certainly uncertain. Tablets are going to replace many PCs. Is there demand for a personal computer anymore?
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »04.02.12 - 13:24
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    Zylesea
    Posts: 2033 from 2003/6/4
    Itix,

    while I think tablets will get increasing market share I highly doubt pcs will fade into a meaningless niche/obscurity. For home use maybe (but I even doubt that in that domain), but not in commercial/scientific/working world which in sum is AFAIK still a bigger market than the home user's market. I bet my t*sticles that x86 pcs will not become exotic over the next decade.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »04.02.12 - 15:05
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1516 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    I am not so sure. For example in factories small PCs are often working as operating consoles. For example in paper machines moisture, grammage and other parameters are displayed in computer screens in control rooms. Instead of static PCs why not just use small tablets you can carry with you to meetings, control rooms, to the machine...?

    Obviously PC is better for many tasks and keeps living but lack of mobility is killing desktops.
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »04.02.12 - 16:05
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