ARM for the future?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    obviously, we need unix base for software with out gui, and future version of qt will be easier to port to mos if mos will be unix based.
  • »10.01.17 - 15:37
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    obviously, we need unix base for software with out gui, and future version of qt will be easier to port to mos if mos will be unix based.




    Why do we need Qt?
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  • »10.01.17 - 15:49
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Why not?
  • »10.01.17 - 15:55
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.
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  • »10.01.17 - 16:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the CPU cores are modded ARM cores (IIRC A73s).

    I've never read or heard from a reliable source that cores which are created on the base of an ISA license (like Qualcomm's Kryo is) are modified ARM Ltd. cores. This doesn't sound plausible to me, even when the ISA licensee is a core licensee at the same time (like Qualcomm is).


    Using an ARM core as a basis for a custom design isn't entirely unusual, but companies don't usually make this public.

    I believe Qualcomm usually do their own from scratch but they are being quite public about this one:
    http://semiaccurate.com/2017/01/03/qualcomm-opens-bit-10nm-snapdragon-835-soc/

    It's also mentioned in a Microprocessor report who are usually a rather more reliable source.
  • »10.01.17 - 19:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I believe Qualcomm usually do their own from scratch but they are being quite
    > public about this one:
    > http://semiaccurate.com/2017/01/03/qualcomm-opens-bit-10nm-snapdragon-835-soc/
    > It's also mentioned in a Microprocessor report who are usually a rather more
    > reliable source.

    I wasn't aware of this, so thanks for the link.

    According to the Microprocessor Report authors, the original Kryo core as used in the Snapdragon 820 and 821 is a from-scratch design, whereas the new Kryo 280 core as used in the Snapdragon 835 has been derived from the Cortex-A73:

    http://www.linleygroup.com/newsletters/newsletter_detail.php?num=5647

    > Using an ARM core as a basis for a custom design isn't entirely unusual,
    > but companies don't usually make this public.

    From the above link:

    "Qualcomm cut a unique deal allowing it to modify and rebrand ARM CPUs."

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 19.01.2017 - 23:02 ]
  • »10.01.17 - 22:01
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.
  • »11.01.17 - 03:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.





    Which Qt software would I want to port?
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  • »11.01.17 - 08:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.





    Which Qt software would I want to port?


    Try to port some software and you get why.
  • »11.01.17 - 23:45
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.





    Which Qt software would I want to port?


    Try to port some software and you get why.


    No software to port, no point in trying.
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  • »12.01.17 - 00:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    minator wrote:
    While I'm here, there's a new board made their kickstarter:

    It's a new version of the Firefly:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1771382379/firefly-rk3399-six-core-64-bit-high-performance-pl


    One problem with doing any sort of alternative boards is they tend to have weird embedded ports or older PC stuff.
    This one is way more modern than most: PCIe, SATA, USB 3.0, DDR3 etc.

    You'd almost think they were looking at doing a laptop with it.


    It needs a numeric keypad.
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »12.01.17 - 03:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    No software to port, no point in trying.



    Try to port anything with more than 2000 lines of code, and you get where is problem.
  • »16.01.17 - 03:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    No software to port, no point in trying.



    Try to port anything with more than 2000 lines of code, and you get where is problem.



    You really need to try harder. Take Shaun the bus arch troll or Mipsproc as examples, they perfected the art.
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  • »16.01.17 - 12:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > In terms of 64-bit ARMv8 (AArch64) cores/microarchitectures, there exists or
    > has been announced so far: [...]

    In what can be called a stealth operation, Cavium acquired Vulcan from Broadcom last year and confusingly renamed it ThunderX 2 CN99xx (ThunderX2T99):

    http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2016-12/msg01986.html
    https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-7/changes.html
    https://reviews.llvm.org/D30510
    https://www.top500.org/news/uk-antes-up-20-million-for-six-new-supercomputer-centers/
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/11189/appliedmicro-x-gene-3-soc-starts-sampling

    This may be the related statement from Cavium's annual report:

    "In November 2016, the Company entered into an asset purchase agreement with a third party company. Pursuant to the asset purchase agreement, the Company acquired property and equipment of $9.2 million and IPR&D of $2.0 million. The IPR&D was recorded at its relative fair using the multi-period excess earnings valuation approach and was written off immediately as the asset had no alternative future use."
    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1175609/000156459017002880/cavm-10k_20161231.htm

    So this is the new list:

    - Cortex-A34, Cortex-A35, Cortex-A53, Cortex-A55, Cortex-A57, Cortex-A65(AE), Cortex-A72, Cortex-A73, Cortex-A75, Cortex-A76(AE), Cortex-A77, Cortex-A78(AE|C), Cortex-R82, Cortex-X1, Neoverse E1, Neoverse N1 and Neoverse V1 from Arm Holdings
    - Denver, Denver2 and Carmel from Nvidia
    - Potenza, Potenza+ and Potenza++ from Ampere
    - ThunderX, ThunderX2, ThunderX2T99 (Vulcan) and ThunderX3 (Triton) from Marvell
    - Cyclone, Typhoon, Twister, Hurricane, Zephyr, Monsoon, Mistral, Vortex, Tempest, Lightning, Thunder, Firestorm and Icestorm from Apple
    - Kryo 100, Falkor, Saphira and Phoenix from Qualcomm
    - Xiaomi FTC660, Xiaomi FTC661, Xiaomi FTC662 and Xiaomi FTC663 from Phytium
    - Mongoose M1, Mongoose M2, Meerkat M3, Cheetah M4 and Lion M5 from Samsung
    - A64FX from Fujitsu
    - TaiShan v110 from HiSilicon/Huawei
    - K12 from AMD


    Edit: added Cortex-A55 and Cortex-A75
    Edit2: added Monsoon and Mistral
    Edit3: added Saphira, changed Applied Micro to Project Denver Holdings
    Edit4: added Meerkat M3
    Edit5: added Carmel
    Edit6: changed Project Denver Holdings to Ampere
    Edit7: added Cortex-A76
    Edit8: added A64FX
    Edit9: added Vortex and Tempest
    Edit10: changed Cavium to Marvell, added ThunderX3 (Triton)
    Edit11: added Cortex-A65AE and Cortex-A76AE
    Edit12: added Neoverse E1 and Neoverse N1
    Edit13: added Cheetah M4
    Edit14: added Cortex-A77
    Edit15: added Lightning and Thunder
    Edit16: added TaiShan v110
    Edit17: added Cortex-A34 and Cortex-A65
    Edit18: added Lion M5
    Edit19: added Cortex-A78 and Cortex-X1
    Edit20: added Cortex-R82
    Edit21: added Neoverse V1 and Phoenix
    Edit22: added Firestorm and Icestorm
    Edit23: changed Nuvia to Qualcomm
    Edit24: added Xiaomi FTC662 and Xiaomi FTC663

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 28.11.2022 - 09:18 ]
  • »08.04.17 - 21:40
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    In what can be called a stealth operation, Cavium acquired Vulcan from Broadcom last year and confusingly renamed it ThunderX 2 CN99xx (ThunderX2T99):


    I couldn't possibly comment...


    However in the land of ARM SBCs I've just seen this:

    http://www.lemaker.org/product-hikeysecond-specification.html

    The SBCs tend to be a bit behind in what chips they use but this has the current top end ARM parts:
    Quad A73 @ 2.4GHz, Mali G71 MP8 and 3GB LPDDR4.
  • »26.04.17 - 20:19
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >Seems they can't get PCIe to work on this board:

    "If you need the PCIE, we should refund for you or you can choose to select the latest HiKey960. If you choose HiKey 960(the price is 239USD plus shipping fee), we will refund the balance for you."

    Weird, since the HiKey 960 only has a compact PCIe M.2 slot.

    SO, thus far, there don't seem to be any ARM boards with full sized PCIe expansion slots.
    I guess X64 WAS the right choice.


    [ Edited by Jim 29.04.2017 - 13:22 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.04.17 - 18:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12085 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Weird, since the HiKey 960 only has a compact PCIe M.2 slot.

    Better that than no PCIe at all, I guess.

    > thus far, there don't seem to be any ARM boards with full sized PCIe expansion slots.

    There're ARMv8 server boards with one or several PCIe x16 slots (from Gigabyte, HP, Avantek, E4 and others, mainly using X-Gene or ThunderX). In the sub-US$800 range there're (beside the LeMaker Cello with botched PCIe x16) at least these boards with PCIe x4:

    - Nvidia Jetson TX1 (Cortex-A57)
    - Nvidia Jetson TX2 (Denver2 + Cortex-A57)
    - Marvell MacchiatoBIN (Cortex-A72)
  • »29.04.17 - 20:30
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    >Seems they can't get PCIe to work on this board:

    "If you need the PCIE, we should refund for you or you can choose to select the latest HiKey960. If you choose HiKey 960(the price is 239USD plus shipping fee), we will refund the balance for you."

    Weird, since the HiKey 960 only has a compact PCIe M.2 slot.

    SO, thus far, there don't seem to be any ARM boards with full sized PCIe expansion slots.
    I guess X64 WAS the right choice.



    It's a shame as I'd love to have an ATX board with Aarch64 CPU and a few full size PCIe slots as a Linux desktop.

    Kind of on the subject, does anyone know of any MIPS or SPARC boards with full size PCIe slots that don't cost the earth? Or any CPU that isn't x86 tbh.
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  • »29.04.17 - 22:24
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 545 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    @Intuition: Only MIPS-desktop which is halfway decent I've read of is a Loongson 3B based one (klick). But I don't know how the availability in any other part of the world apart from China is. Apart from that our current PPC-hardware, the PCIe-Macs or Amigas are the next best choice for 'alternative'-CPU desktops. Which I think it is quite funny. ;-)
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.18 / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.2]
  • »30.04.17 - 10:16
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ernsteiswuerfel

    >...the PCIe-Macs...

    I have been asking for those for a LONG time, and while I'm sure they have at least beta tested the idea for themselves, we haven't gotten them... ;-(
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.04.17 - 22:05
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Jim wrote:

    @Andreas_Wolf

    Only $300 for a 2GHz system with a PCIe x4 slot, hmm...

    Again, I'm glad we are moving to X64.

    If I'm blowing $800 or more, I want something like a four or six core Ryzen cpu.


    @ernsteiswuerfel

    >...the PCIe-Macs...

    I have been asking for those for a LONG time, and while I'm sure they have at least beta tested the idea for themselves, we haven't gotten them... ;-(
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.04.17 - 22:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Desktop machine? slots?

    Last time I bought (well, built) a desktop machine with slots was 17 years ago!

    OTOH this laptop does have PCIe ...for the SDD drive.
  • »30.04.17 - 23:02
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    minator wrote:
    Desktop machine? slots?

    Last time I bought (well, built) a desktop machine with slots was 17 years ago!

    OTOH this laptop does have PCIe ...for the SDD drive.


    I have one with compact PCIe that I don't use for SSD, but then, I don't limit myself to laptops.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.05.17 - 08:11
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