ARM for the future?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    not a single bit. and this website and discussion is about MOS but not AROS.


    I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but i thought the General Discussion forum was for general discussion not just MorphOS specific topics.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »26.11.15 - 20:58
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1366 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but i thought the General Discussion forum was for general discussion not just MorphOS specific topics.

    This is correct. If the percentage of off-topic discussions were to increase dramatically, then they would probably require a separate dedicated subforum but it has not been necessary so far.
  • »27.11.15 - 08:03
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    connor schrieb:
    THe situation of AROS does not change. It already had the cheapest hardware available. It just turned cheaper. AROS still has the same bugs and lacks the same features as before. And a computer without internet socket isn't much attractive. Or you have to buy a USB WiFi stick. But is there support for AROS for any of them or the one from the Pi shop?


    I do not know if it would be worth it but I would be interested to read what same bugs are in Aros and what same features Aros lacks... it would make the discussions more fact-based, most I have read are just emotional or general phrases like "Aros is x years behind". Where? In the API? Desktop? And compared to what?

    I have created a thread for that otherwise such discussions would derail this thread:
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11458&post_id=123113&order=0&viewmode=flat&pid=0&forum=3#123113


    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 27.11.2015 - 09:22 ]
  • »27.11.15 - 08:15
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1366 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    THe situation of AROS does not change. It already had the cheapest hardware available. It just turned cheaper. AROS still has the same bugs and lacks the same features as before. And a computer without internet socket isn't much attractive. Or you have to buy a USB WiFi stick. But is there support for AROS for any of them or the one from the Pi shop?

    Most folks will also need to spend another 4-5 USD (plus taxes and shipping) just to get full-size USB and HDMI ports so they can use standard cables (or likely spend even more on buying new cables).

    If you add up the costs for all accessories that would turn this board into what could roughly be called a "desktop computer", then one could just as well buy a Rasperry Pi 2 and get much better (albeit still quite limited) performance.
  • »27.11.15 - 08:22
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    All gone!

    http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2015/11/raspberry-pi-zero-sells-out-within-24-hours/
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

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  • »27.11.15 - 14:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    No amount of nay-saying changes the Pi's popularity. The fact that it's marketed and made headway as a learning tool for new programmers should underscore its relevance to this community.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »27.11.15 - 20:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    minator wrote:
    iPad Pro is getting some good numbers:

    http://wccftech.com/apple-a9xipad-pro-benchmarks/


    This is truly amazing! :-o

    I am certain that Apple could today (if they wanted to) produce a proper desktop/laptop CPU of their own based on their ARM based designs. Maybe they will in a not too distant future? They sure has both the competence and the resources needed. IMHO they have been shooting for a lot more raw CPU performance than phones/tablets really need ever since the Cyclone architecture. A lot more. And in a way it would make sense for them to take control over their entire eco system, i.e. not only the OS but also the HW to the fullest. Who knows, maybe the "Mac" is about to have another ISA migration in the future? ;-)


    Quote:

    ausPPC wrote:
    No amount of nay-saying changes the Pi's popularity. The fact that it's marketed and made headway as a learning tool for new programmers should underscore its relevance to this community.


    I agree.

    Though this particular HW is very limited (unless expanded with a couple of add-ons for several (at least!) dollars ;-) ), it sure is a statement that nobody can ignore! Also if you look at it in some kind of future perspective.

    When looking at Raspberry as a company and as products, where will they go from here, from the current offerings they have? I think it's quite possible that they, strengthened by their growing trade mark, will diversify "upwards" in the future. In other words, not only offering tiny, limited circuit boards, but perhaps also more like traditional computer products like laptops and maybe even some kind of "computer in a keyboard" (or in a monitor)? Maybe even some kind of desktop?

    Apples quick stride in ARM development is very impressive, and they have come the furthest. However, they are not alone in doing interesting stuff on their own based on the ARM ISA, several other companies (and not as closed/proprietary) are moving in the same direction! ARM is definitely moving beyond "phones" into other segments (and has been doing this for years already), and maybe not just the server segments?

    Linus Torvalds of Linux fame has said that "2016 will be the year of the ARM Laptop". Presumably he has some insight in various companies efforts.

    I created this thread early 2011. Maybe the topic "ARM for the future?" is becoming more and more relevant?

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »27.11.15 - 21:55
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1366 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    ausPPC wrote:
    No amount of nay-saying changes the Pi's popularity.

    Would you care to point out the comment that this is referring to?

    Quote:

    The fact that it's marketed and made headway as a learning tool for new programmers should underscore its relevance to this community.


    Link: http://www.alphr.com/news/education/380374/most-raspberry-pi-computers-bought-by-adults-not-kids

    Quote:

    "The reason we've sold so many of these is largely is that they've sold to technology capable adults more than they've sold to kids," Upton said. "We think only 10-20%, maybe 30% of the ones we sold have ended up in the hands of kids."
  • »28.11.15 - 07:23
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1366 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    minator wrote:
    iPad Pro is getting some good numbers:

    http://wccftech.com/apple-a9xipad-pro-benchmarks/


    This is truly amazing! :-o

    You might want to read this...

    Link: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3006268/tablets/tested-why-the-ipad-pro-really-isnt-as-fast-a-laptop.html

    Quote:

    I am certain that Apple could today (if they wanted to) produce a proper desktop/laptop CPU of their own based on their ARM based designs.

    They could. But what would be the point? Apple´s mobile chips are being manufactured tens of millions of times each and often reused for several product types. Apple´s computer division, on the other hand, has much, much, much lower sales volumes, yet offers a substantially bigger variety of CPU options so the business case is very different with regard to custom CPUs for Macs than it is for Apple´s phones and tablets.

    The technical possibility of switching to ARM is a nice option to have since you can leverage it to get better pricing from Intel but that is about all it is at this time and it is unlikely to change anytime soon.

    Quote:

    Though this particular HW is very limited (unless expanded with a couple of add-ons for several (at least!) dollars ;-) ), it sure is a statement that nobody can ignore! Also if you look at it in some kind of future perspective.

    What statement would that be? "The race to the bottom is alive and well, so let´s all cheer for it?"

    Quote:

    When looking at Raspberry as a company and as products, where will they go from here, from the current offerings they have? I think it's quite possible that they, strengthened by their growing trade mark, will diversify "upwards" in the future. In other words, not only offering tiny, limited circuit boards, but perhaps also more like traditional computer products like laptops and maybe even some kind of "computer in a keyboard" (or in a monitor)? Maybe even some kind of desktop?

    Please note that the Raspberry Pi is being produced by a non-profit organization, not a consumer company.

    Quote:

    Linus Torvalds of Linux fame has said that "2016 will be the year of the ARM Laptop". Presumably he has some insight in various companies efforts.

    This was misreported and Linus felt the need to clarify his statement.

    Link: http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-would-like-to-see-an-arm-laptop-but-he-doesnt-expect-it/
  • »28.11.15 - 07:47
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    dethknave
    Posts: 31 from 2015/11/28
    From: usa
    more about ARM n Torvalds

    I like what I hear from redhat here
    https://youtu.be/yM0pjUEVSxY



    Cavium's 48 core arm servers look fun

    [ Edited by dethknave 28.11.2015 - 02:54 ]
    M$ buys GitHub?
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  • »28.11.15 - 07:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @ASiegel

    I would guess switching to a technology they control would be the reason to switch from Intel to ARM. But it would be a risky and potentionally very expensive endevor. It will probably make them decide against such an proposition.

    But if they can get away with it, then manufacturing millions of ARM chips for their business would lower the overall cost, making Apple ARM chips attractive for other vendors. Suddenly, Apple would be in the CPU making business. We can't rule that out since they have entered a lot of new businesses since Jobs returned.
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  • »28.11.15 - 09:06
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Would you care to point out the comment that this is referring to?


    Certainly. It was yours.

    Your link to an early 2013 interview (and a line that Eben Upton had already been repeating for at least 5 months before that) would still indicate that tens of thousands of curious young minds are fixed on this platform - one that absolutely does encourage learning and discovery. Three years on and that figure has grown by 10 to 20 times.

    A modest little $5 or $35 computer may represent false economy to you (and all the others that poopoo the RPi) but there are generations and demographics under you to whom it has far greater appeal.

    Despite how well I believe MorphOS would run on any RPi, HaikuOS is potentially an even better fit - and that is why I intend to offer a bounty to continue the ARM port of Haiku.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »28.11.15 - 12:26
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1366 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    ausPPC wrote:
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Would you care to point out the comment that this is referring to?


    Certainly. It was yours.

    So, stating that a Rasberry Pi 2 is a much better deal for "desktop computing" use cases than the new Raspberry Pi Zero equals anti-Pi "naysaying"?
  • »28.11.15 - 12:50
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    For me, yes. It was the '(albeit still quite limited) performance' comment that put it over the line into nay-saying territory.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »28.11.15 - 20:24
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    dethknave
    Posts: 31 from 2015/11/28
    From: usa
    Quote:

    ausPPC wrote:
    For me, yes. It was the '(albeit still quite limited) performance' comment that put it over the line into nay-saying territory.


    what if I want my Raspberry Pi device to perform large dataset manipulation in realtime or near realtime?

    large dataset defined as - monitoring network load of aggregated live twitter posts in realtime
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  • »29.11.15 - 00:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Sorry, don't know how to answer your question - and I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. I could just as well ask, 'What if I want my C64 to do something it probably can't?'

    I'm much more interested in what computers *can* do. eg: A Pi2 can run a full bitcoin node.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »29.11.15 - 01:21
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    dethknave
    Posts: 31 from 2015/11/28
    From: usa
    Quote:

    ausPPC wrote:
    Sorry, don't know how to answer your question - and I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. I could just as well ask, 'What if I want my C64 to do something it probably can't?'

    I'm much more interested in what computers *can* do. eg: A Pi2 can run a full bitcoin node.


    You go ahead and hash out some bitcoins with that Raspberry Pi2, let us know how how well you do vs the rest of the majority of bitcoin "hash'ers"
    M$ buys GitHub?
    'Bout time to panic
  • »19.12.15 - 22:50
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    @dethknave You go research what a bitcoin node is and then come back an' 'pologise for that fight talk, y'hear? Or I'll tell your mother. :p
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »19.12.15 - 23:31
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    dethknave
    Posts: 31 from 2015/11/28
    From: usa
    Quote:

    ausPPC wrote:
    @dethknave You go research what a bitcoin node is and then come back an' 'pologise for that fight talk, y'hear? Or I'll tell your mother. :p


    My bad, but mom said to read this article
    http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-nodes-need/

    and notice

    Quote:

    miners would likely be reluctant to concede any revenue to bitcoin nodes, which don't require pricey ASIC hardware to run.
    M$ buys GitHub?
    'Bout time to panic
  • »22.12.15 - 12:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    The rules that define the bitcoin network are still fluid. So far, the incentive for running a node has always been personal but, if that needs to change, it will.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »23.12.15 - 18:49
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ausPPC wrote:
    No amount of nay-saying changes the Pi's popularity. The fact that it's marketed and made headway as a learning tool for new programmers should underscore its relevance to this community.


    No, not really.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.12.15 - 19:40
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Yeah, what was I thinking - how could MorphOS *possibly* benefit from being ported to a platform that is marketed to and has specific appeal to young people interested in learning how to program?
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »23.12.15 - 20:18
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