ARM for the future?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Why in the world does the OS give me an option to reserve 30GB then?

    When you do incremental updates of the packages, all older versions are kept in place in their archived form (until you decide to delete all old packages, which you can do via command line). The more often you do such incremental updates, i.e. the less updates you skip, the more storage those old packages will take up in sum.
  • »30.10.12 - 09:35
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    "AMD has signed a license for a 64-bit processor design from ARM, ending its exclusive commitment to x86"

    http://www.techworld.com.au/article/440450/amd_sell_arm-based_server_chips_2014/
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »30.10.12 - 10:16
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > http://www.techworld.com.au/article/440450/amd_sell_arm-based_server_chips_2014/

    Interesting. AMD is licensing an ARMv8 core from ARM Ltd., instead of designing their own ARMv8 core like nVidia, Applied Micro and Cavium do.
  • »30.10.12 - 11:21
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    I think there is both licensing and design involved in *all* cases...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »30.10.12 - 21:57
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/arm-launches-cortex-a50-series-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-64-bit-processors.php

    Cortex-A53: ~1x "today’s superphone" performance using 1/4 of the power
    "The most efficient ARM application processor ever"

    Cortex-A57: ~3x "today’s superphone" performance using 1x of the power
    "Provides computer performance comparable to a legacy PC,  while operating in a mobile power budget"

    And they can be combined: "The Cortex-A53 processor combined with the Cortex-A57 and big.LITTLE processing technology will enable platforms with extreme performance range while radically reducing the energy consumption"


    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 30.10.2012 - 23:37 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »30.10.12 - 21:59
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> AMD is licensing an ARMv8 core from ARM Ltd., instead of designing
    >> their own ARMv8 core like nVidia, Applied Micro and Cavium do.

    > I think there is both licensing and design involved in *all* cases...

    Not with the cores, which is what my statement is referring to. I tried to explain this to you one month ago already:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=8783&start=23
  • »30.10.12 - 22:34
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Oh my god Andreas, sometimes I seriously wonder if you are for real...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »30.10.12 - 22:42
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Oh my god Andreas

    Some time ago someone used to nonsensically call me his "prophet" here on MorphZone. Now I am your "god". What's next? :-)

    > sometimes I seriously wonder if you are for real...

    I am, and so are my explanations to you that you tend to ignore.
  • »30.10.12 - 22:48
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    My God, Andreas.
    You are a prophet, but you will never be a deity.

    Although, at times, I wonder if you are "for real" or just a really good artificial intelligence program.

    The kind that WILL eventually exist, that will make us all feel...smaller.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.10.12 - 22:56
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/arm-launches-cortex-a50-series-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-64-bit-processors.php

    Finally :-) Seems my assumption about Calxeda's Lago being their own core design was wrong. So in terms of 64-bit ARMv8 (AArch64) cores, there is announced so far:

    - Cortex-A53 and Cortex-A57 from ARM Ltd.
    - Denver from nVidia
    - X-Gene from Applied Micro
    - Thunder from Cavium
  • »30.10.12 - 22:57
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You are a prophet

    And here you had me hoping we were over this... ;-)
  • »31.10.12 - 00:29
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Hey, at least I never claimed you were God.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »31.10.12 - 08:59
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I'm sure you'll work out a Spec2000 number for the A15 from the slides (hint:
    > about 1000). That puts it [...] about the same as where the X1000 should be.

    ...at 2.0 GHz, which PA6T chips available on the market never really ran at. So it's only about 900 SPECint2000 for the 1.8 GHz PA6T.
  • »01.11.12 - 22:18
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    ...at 2.0 GHz, which PA6T chips available on the market never really ran at.


    I suspect a few special customers might have got some.

    Quote:

    So it's only about 900 SPECint2000 for the 1.8 GHz PA6T.

    990 ...the estimate was 1100 at 2GHz.

    That said I still suspect it's not set up correctly in the X1000 and you wont get that score if you ran it.
    OTOH, I did once read a comment that newer firmware versions improved performance so maybe results are better now.
  • »02.11.12 - 23:31
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    and you wont get that score if you ran it.


    I remember the Articia-S controller. Rated to be AGP 2x in speed and marketed as such. In real tests (that was conducted by various community members many, many years ago) it turned out that the real-life data bandwidth was about AGP 0.5x in practice, due to a buggy/unfinished design (they were only made for development boards, like the Terons, that someone resold as AmigaOne's.) It's not always about "settings" to get something right, some times a design can just have been released too early, too underdeveloped, too untested, and wasn't really meant for end-user markets anyway.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.11.12 - 00:09
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> it's only about 900 SPECint2000 for the 1.8 GHz PA6T.

    > 990 ...the estimate was 1100 at 2GHz.

    Ah okay, thanks. A quick search found me only the 1000 figure, which is probably rounded.
  • »03.11.12 - 02:50
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Articia-S [...] were only made for development boards, like the Terons [...].
    > [...] some times a design [...] wasn't really meant for end-user markets anyway.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7675&start=336

    And from the horse's mouth:

    "Articia S is the first ready-to-market chipset of the Articia family of chipsets. It is a highly integrated, low-cost and high-performance system IC, ideal for network computers, web servers and thin servers. [...] Articia S is the leading system controller that enables AGP support for RISC processor based systems. It meets the increasing demands for today's embedded systems, such as video/3D graphics oriented, multi-tasking and real-time applications."
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060514160730/http://www.mai.com/products/articia_s.html

    No doubt that the ArticiaS wasn't ready for any commercial product, but that doesn't mean that MAI didn't try to make and sell it for exactly that or that MAI didn't claim it to be designed for end-user markets.
    Regarding PA6T and end-user markets, you should keep in mind that it was originally designed as a chip for Apple laptops.
  • »03.11.12 - 03:15
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    takemehomegrandma,
    Quote:

    I remember the Articia-S controller. Rated to be AGP 2x in speed and marketed as such. In real tests (that was conducted by various community members many, many years ago) it turned out that the real-life data bandwidth was about AGP 0.5x in practice, due to a buggy/unfinished design (they were only made for development boards, like the Terons, that someone resold as AmigaOne's.) It's not always about "settings" to get something right, some times a design can just have been released too early, too underdeveloped, too untested, and wasn't really meant for end-user markets anyway.


    MAI logic were incompetent, they didn't test the chip properly and didn't even know it had basic faults.
    Some faults can be very difficult to find - but not the basic ones.

    The PA6T was designed by people who knew what they were doing. Some of them have quite a record, Alpha, StrongARM, Opteron, and now Apple's A6.

    There could be a number of other reasons though, it's designed to run code for a G5, it may simply be bad at running code designed for a G4. Maybe the 32 bit mode sucks.
  • »03.11.12 - 13:02
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    But did they really, *really* reach 100% all the way to a 100% tested and 100% functional *end-user level* product before Apple pulled the plug? Albeit seen and used in some product at early stage, had it really finished sampling and all necessary revision tapeouts to become final? Is there some web page in the archive with a general, public press release saying "We are finished and PA6T is now open for business and we will be happy to take your orders" kind of thing?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.11.12 - 03:21
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    I've no idea about the actual details but it was sufficiently finished for US military suppliers to use it. When Apple bought the company the US government even forced Apple to keep making them for some time afterwards.
  • »04.11.12 - 21:11
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 28nm Cortex A-15 (Eagle) i.MX73 is proposed. [...]
    > i.MX Roadmap

    Seems this may take longer than anticipated:

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/01/freescale-layoffs-target-one-particular-product/
    http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/the-engineering-life-around-the-web/4401885/Freescale-s-i-MX-7-canned-as-firm-refocuses-
    http://www.linleygroup.com/newsletters/newsletter_detail.php?num=4917

    Edit: added some more links

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 18.12.2012 - 00:44 ]
  • »08.11.12 - 09:37
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Did this board ever register amoung the ARM proponents here? http://apc.io/

    It's billed as a $49 Android device made by Via.

    (pinched from wikipedia)
    ModelAPC 8750
    Software Android 2.3 (PC System)
    Chip VIA 800MHz Processor
    Memory DDR3 512MB Memory, 2GB NAND Flash
    Graphics Built-in 2D/3D Graphic, Resolution up to 720p
    Input and Output HDMI, VGA, USB 2.0 (x4), Audio out / Mic in, microSD Slot
    Network 10/100 Ethernet
    Size 170 x 85mm (W x H), Neo-ITX Standard

    ebay India

    RS Components
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »09.11.12 - 07:59
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Did this board ever register amoung the ARM proponents here? http://apc.io/

    You and me briefly talked about it about half a year ago in this thread.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7675&start=269
  • »09.11.12 - 08:24
    Profile
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    nemesiswar
    Posts: 37 from 2012/11/12
    http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/06/apples-potential-shift-from-intel-to-arm-for-macs-not-implausible-but-faces-hurdles/
    Dont know if this already been mentioned but i suppose it has some relevance here, if Mac goes ARM the progress of it is probably gonna accelerate a lot.
    Power Mac G5 2,0 Ghz registred
    IBook G4 1,2 Ghz registered
    Mac mini G4 1,5 Ghz unregistred
    Power Mac G5 Quad awaiting support
  • »12.11.12 - 19:08
    Profile