ARM for the future?
  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    "No, I said there were *almost* no speculations."

    Yes you did say that.

    You also said ""so the alleged "buzz" regarding the prospect of "Denver" being 64-bit just wasn't (and isn't) there".

    And you'd like 11 Goggle links? Probably doable.
    The funny thing is, the first would be this thread (you're part of the buzz).
    Another thing is I'd have to agree with allowing you to define the term and state the qualifications that would satisfy your definitions. That is a political game I won't play into.

    So if it makes you feel better, there is no buzz (except for what we both know is there).

    Do I want to waste my time carrying this ridiculous argument further?

    Not really, I feel it diminishes both of us (and everyone else is getting such a kick out of using the term buzz). How you feel about hardly influences that.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2011/1/13 23:30 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »13.01.11 - 23:30
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12110 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> "No, I said there were *almost* no speculations."

    > Yes you did say that.

    I'm glad you decided to stop this lie. Thanks for that.

    > You also said ""so the alleged "buzz" regarding the prospect
    > of "Denver" being 64-bit just wasn't (and isn't) there".

    Yes, that's exactly what I said. And I'm still of this opinion.

    > you'd like 11 Goggle links?

    If you can give a total of 11 hyperlinks (not "Goggle links") to articles or forum threads discussing the matter then I'll admit being wrong, which is what you asked me to do. So you could assume it's not that I really want you to give me those links but rather that I think you should be eager to give them to me ;-) Seriously, I'll happily admit being wrong when being convinced of being wrong. For me it's more important to know the truth than being right.

    > Probably doable.

    Yes, I think so. I really tried to be fair by "demanding" only one 100,000th of current Google hits.

    > the first would be this thread

    Yes, and second would be the link to the forum post I gave you, and third would be the link to the article you gave me. Makes only 8 to go.

    > I'd have to agree with allowing you to define the term
    > and state the qualifications that would satisfy your
    > definitions.

    Of course, an agreement on the quantification would be necessary to come to a final conclusion. I really tried to be fair in my assessment. If you think that 11 is not an appropriate number of required links to support the claim of something being "the current buzz" about an announcement I'm all ears for your proposal.

    > That is a political game

    I don't see it that way. It's all about making claims and presenting sufficient supporting evidence. Nothing political about that.

    > there is no buzz

    Fine. I'm willing to accept your retraction from your "buzz" claim. A pity as you've been mere 8 links off ;-)

    > except for what we both know is there

    ...which in my book is still too little to qualify as "the current buzz" about the "Denver" announcement.

    > everyone else is getting such a kick out of using
    > the term buzz

    Let them have their kick. Besides, it's not only been about the term "buzz" as such but more about the whole phrasing "the current buzz" (as opposed to just "a current buzz").

    > How you feel about hardly influences that.

    Exactly. Nothing about feelings here, only about claims and hard evidence (or so far rather lack thereof, unfortunately).
  • »14.01.11 - 00:24
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Andreas, arguing with you is as tiring as arguing with one of my siblings.
    But you're right. No hard feelings.
    Besides, it more important that we get back to the topic.
    I'm extremely excited about Nvidia picking this up and Microsoft's support can only broaden ARM support.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.01.11 - 00:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 370 from 2003/3/28
    Er, what exactly are you guys arguing about?

    Maybe the answer is in the Nvidia press release:

    "This new processor stems from a strategic partnership, also announced today, in which NVIDIA has obtained rights to develop its own high performance CPU cores based on ARM’s future processor architecture."
  • »14.01.11 - 01:26
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12110 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what exactly are you guys arguing about?

    Read up from where that argument started:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7675&forum=3&post_id=80969#80969

    > Maybe the answer is in the Nvidia press release

    No, it's not. If it was there wouldn't have been any argument in the first place.
  • »14.01.11 - 01:33
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  • Jim
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    Jim
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    Totally off the point. Andreas and I just have a valid difference of opinion about the number of people who actually have clued into what this announcement may mean.
    Frankly I think he's right that virtually none of the so-called IT professionals in the press have realized what the likely specs of this processor are (or how it represents something new).
    Only a few people in forums and blogs have put two and two together and drawn these conclusions.
    Our only 'argument' (if you can call it that) is on the numbers. And he's probably right, most people appear to be clueless about how significant this could be.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.01.11 - 01:48
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Just a though that occurred to me while I was out walking the dog.
    Microsoft intends to support ARM in Windows 8.
    Windows supports virtualization.
    Were MorphOS to be ported to ARM it is not inconceivable that in the future we could run MorphOS and Windows together simultaneously on the same computer.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2011/1/14 2:47 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.01.11 - 02:38
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12110 from 2003/5/22
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    > Microsoft's support can only broaden ARM support.

    "The idea that Microsoft is readying a version of Windows 8 for ARM is troubling."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=606510

    ;-)
  • »14.01.11 - 04:17
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  • Jim
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    Jim
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    What can I say, schizophrenia maybe?
    I'm not sure if I trust Microsoft, but they could increase interest in the market.
    Damned good quote though.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.01.11 - 04:45
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    scrAb_
    Posts: 62 from 2010/7/23
    Quote:

    "The idea that Microsoft is readying a version of Windows 8 for ARM is troubling."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=606510

    ;-)


    Amazing!
    Ehi Jim, whenever and wherever you post something, remember.....Andrea-bot is "watching you"
    :-)
    MacMini@1.5Ghz 1GB/DualBoot Morphos3.1/DebianPPC - Efika MX sb
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  • »14.01.11 - 07:29
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12110 from 2003/5/22
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    > Ehi Jim, whenever and wherever you post something,
    > remember.....Andrea-bot is "watching you" ;-)

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7183&forum=3&post_id=76517#76517 ;-)

    Btw, are you Italian? Andrea is a female name here in Germany. Trust me, I'm as manly as a man can be ;-)
  • »14.01.11 - 10:05
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Here is a video showing a Genesi ARM computer using one of the amazing Pixel Qi screens that will be optional in future Genesi products:

    http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-year-ces-and-lots-more.html

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »14.01.11 - 14:43
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:


    scrAb_ wrote:
    Quote:

    "The idea that Microsoft is readying a version of Windows 8 for ARM is troubling."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=606510

    ;-)


    Amazing!
    Ehi Jim, whenever and wherever you post something, remember.....Andrea-bot is "watching you"
    :-)


    I thought that was wolfbot, and not only is he watching...

    "Btw, are you Italian? Andrea is a female name here in Germany. Trust me, I'm as manly as a man can be ;-) "

    but the dude's got some seriously frightening recall.

    I remember that exchange - Hey Andreas in the US would be a man's name as well - I don't ever remember him forgetting to and the 's' at the end.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2011/1/14 15:03 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.01.11 - 15:02
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  • Leo
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    Posts: 417 from 2003/8/18
    Quote:


    meaning no backwards compatibility at all, which sounds like no fun.


    It does sound like fun :)

    Do you think the original AmigaOS started with software ? Still they had fun creating it... and people created the first pieces of software also did :)
    Nothing hurts a project more than developers not taking the time to let their community know what is going on.
  • »14.01.11 - 23:46
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    scrAb_
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    ......."s"
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  • »15.01.11 - 09:55
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    _DaNi_
    Posts: 154 from 2010/5/4
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    NVidia moves to ARM in a near future... :)

    http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/01/project-denver-processor-to-usher-in-new-era-of-computing/
  • »17.01.11 - 00:46
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12110 from 2003/5/22
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    >>> Microsoft's support can only broaden ARM support.

    >> "The idea that Microsoft is readying a version of Windows 8 for ARM is troubling."
    >> http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=606510
    >> ;-)

    > NVidia moves to ARM in a near future... :)
    > http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/01/project-denver-processor-to-usher-in-new-era-of-computing/

    1. I fail to see the connection of your posting to the one you replied to with it.
    2. nVidia's "Denver" announcement is what this thread has mostly been about. Obviously you didn't read it before replying.
    3. As I've told here in this thread nVidia has already moved to ARM years ago.
  • »17.01.11 - 01:30
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  • Jim
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    Jim
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    Yes that reference brings no new information to the table. What we've been discussing is what Denver may feature that hasn't implented in the ARM ISA yet.
    Up until now I haven't seen anything in Nvidia's ARM offerings to recommend them over other manufacturers like TI.

    I'm reasonably certain that our past speculation is on target, but unless Nvidia releases more information we have no proof.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »17.01.11 - 01:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    xyphoid
    Posts: 870 from 2008/7/11
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    So I broke my new toy (the coby kyros) well the usb snapped, so looking at http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7042921&CatId=6957
    since related to topic, how I'm not accused of a hijack ;-)
    I couldn't link through topic name directly, strange but it happen from time to time on owb. just got a red flash when tried to paste.
  • »17.01.11 - 02:09
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:


    xyphoid wrote:
    So I broke my new toy (the coby kyros) well the usb snapped, so looking at http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7042921&CatId=6957
    since related to topic, how I'm not accused of a hijack ;-)
    I couldn't link through topic name directly, strange but it happen from time to time on owb. just got a red flash when tried to paste.


    Nice! And not too far off topic as it is Nvidia based (if only a Tegra 2). A little higher priced than I'd like though. For the same money I could buy an Efika MX Smartbook and get a full keyboard. The tablet would be more compact though.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »17.01.11 - 03:12
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Looking at AMD's first combined CPU/GPU products (which they call APUs) the AMD Embedded G-Series has left me considering how ARM and X86 design seems to be crossing paths at this point.

    http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/49282B_Embedded_Solutions_GSeries_Brief.pdf

    Nvidia's Denver might be 64 bit and in some ways resembles what AMD is considering. After consideration, while I am unsure about whether or not Denver will be 64 bit or not, but I'd think its fair to say that it isn't likely to clock above what current A9 are being tested at. It probably won't be a complete SOC like most current ARMs (since much of that functionality would be wasted in servers).
    And they may focus on two things that aren't common in ARM design. First a better interconnect system like AMD licensed Hyper Transport interconnections. And second GP GPU computing. After all Nvidia has been pushing this and in a servers the GPU part of an APUs would be largely wasted.

    As these two ISAs grow to resemble each other architecturally, its going to be interesting seeing how each fairs in competition with the other.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.01.11 - 22:15
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    _DaNi_ wrote:
    NVidia moves to ARM in a near future... :)

    http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/01/project-denver-processor-to-usher-in-new-era-of-computing/



    Thanks for the link. Some important statements from nVidia there IMHO.

    :-)

    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma on 2011/1/21 10:08 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »21.01.11 - 09:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
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    I do not know much about the topic "ARM" ... but the fact that Microsoft is going to support it and that ARM is already wide spread, does that want to say that Intel is going to get some serious competition (and gets stabbed in the back by Microsoft ) ?
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »21.01.11 - 09:25
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  • Jim
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    Jim
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    Nvidia's Mike Rayfield:

    "As well as licensing Cortex A15, we also have an architectural license with ARM to produce an extremely high performance ARM CPU, which be combined with Nvidia GPUs for super-computing," he said, adding that the Maxwell generation of GPUs will be the first end-product using Project Denver.

    "This is a far greater resource investment for us than just licensing a design," he said.

    The Maxwell generation is expected to launch sometime in 2013, offering a "massive" increase in processing power over the previous Kepler generation.

    Two yeas away? My are they taling vaporware! - Jim
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.01.11 - 18:56
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    takemehomegrandma
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    Quote:


    Jim wrote:

    It probably won't be a complete SOC like most current ARMs (since much of that functionality would be wasted in servers).


    Oh I think there will be SoC's for sure! That's the future. Of course nothing is stopping them to make several *different versions* targeted at several different applications (like pad/netbook, desktop, server, "super computer" or whatever) with any needed controllers on chip, once they have completed their core development.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »21.01.11 - 19:42
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