>>We spent $59 million so far

Ah, yes, that is quite a bit less..

> Ah, yes, that is quite a bit less..

Indeed. And apparently, they also assess the sum of "$195 million" they plan to spend on the whole project as being "significantly less" than "$400 million to $500 million".

We can only hope they've covered their investment better then they did with Intrinsity.
It wouldn't do to have somebody pull an "Amiga" on them and buy out their interests.

> We can only hope they've covered their investment better then they did with Intrinsity.

I think they have now as I don't recall they had a merger agreement with Intrinsity, which is what they do have with Veloce since 2009.

> It wouldn't do to have somebody pull an "Amiga" on them and buy out their interests.

The situation is not quite comparable as contrary to popular believe, Atari's loan agreement with Amiga (I guess that's what you're referring to here) was not about acquiring the Amiga company but only about licensing its Amiga chipset, so not even about having the right to the chipset IP as it would be in the case of Applied Micro and Veloce even without their merger agreement.

Thanks once again Andreas, for the complete analysis.
This does sound like a much better thought out arrangement.

Addendum:

> "[...] we were one of the first companies to release a Power PC
> and ARM on the same die about three years ago [...]"
> http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312511300076/d253150dex992.htm
>
> does anybody know which Applied Micro chip had "a Power PC and ARM on
> the same die about three years ago"? I'm well aware of the fact that at the heart
> of PacketPro's SLIMpro subsystem is a 250 MHz ARM Cortex-M3 core,
> but the PacketPro family was only announced (not even released) in
> September 2010, which hardly qualifies as "three years ago".

What already happened "three years ago" in October 2011 has now (April 2012) happened only "in the last two years" ;-)

"In the last two years, we have implemented [...] Our multi-ISA SOC architectures: the industry’s first asymmetrical instruction set. Multi-core processors that incorporate both ARM and Power Architecture"
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312512204733/d343066dex992.htm

I've been interested enough in RaspberryPi to regularly read their news and recently followed a link to a recent review by The Register which led me to one of TheReg's earlier articles. It's also been interesting to see that Via are getting in on ARM too - http://apc.io/

> It's also been interesting to see that Via are getting in on ARM too

VIA has been doing this for some years already:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WonderMedia

I didn't know about WonderMedia and haven't given Via a thought since C7 and mini-itx form factors were newsworthy.

It was good to see an eSATA port on one of those ARM boards but you'll know it's serious when there's an ARM board with standard upgradable memory and graphics / expansion slots.

> I didn't know about WonderMedia

The VIA APC you linked to has the WM8750 SoC. In order to reflect the VIA connection better, the WonderMedia SoCs are sometimes called VTxxxx instead of WMxxxx.
Some discussion on the 8505, one of the predecessors of the 8750 (just FYI):

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=345

> It was good to see an eSATA port on one of those ARM boards

The VIA APC has eSATA? Btw, ARM machines with SATA:

http://trimslice.com/web/models
http://pogoplug.com/devices#pick

Just had a look back here - the ARM product I noticed the eSATA port on was the CuBox.

Update:

>> That does look like a significant shift in the company's focus.

> Indeed. I'm eager to know if they plan on abandoning Power Architecture completely

I'm confused. It seems the development agreement between Applied Micro and Veloce has been covering not only the ARMv8 X-Gene processor but also a PowerPC processor:

"This Development Agreement [...] is entered into as of May 17, 2009 [...] by and between Applied Micro Circuits Corporation [...] (“AMCC”) and Veloce Technologies, Inc. [...](“Company”). [...] WHEREAS, the Parties desire for Company to develop for AMCC one or more PowerPC processors that meet certain specifications provided in the Merger Agreement [...]. [...] “Project” means the development of a PowerPC processor as described in Section 2.1. [...] 2.1 Project. Company will use diligent efforts to develop a 40 nm PowerPC processor module as further described in Exhibit A, which meets the specifications and the requirements provided in the Merger Agreement (as such specifications and requirements may be amended from time to time in accordance with the terms hereof, the “Design Requirements”). The Company will meet all of the milestones provided in Exhibit B (the “Milestones”) by the applicable due dates specified therein. [...] 2.10 Technology Review and Project Materials. Company and AMCC will meet periodically, but no less than quarterly, to discuss the status of the Project, including the status of Milestones and to jointly perform technical review of the PowerPC processor in development."
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312512237264/d238010dex1066.htm
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312512449811/d431089dex1066.htm

Unfortunately, the exhibits have been omitted due to confidentiality. Maybe this is linked to "Viper":

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=444
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=453
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=612
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=655

I recently purchased a couple WM8650 devices.
They're not bad netbooks, but they have an really poor operating system (Windows CE7) and the wireless doesn't function correctly.

If there was a Linux distro for these things (other then Android), they could actually be pretty cool.

And the price is only slightly higher then the RaspberryPi

@Jim,

Try looking here:

http://devio.us/~nextvolume/via_arm/viewforum.php?id=4

and here

http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/21211-7-wm8650-netbook-linux-port/

plus there are probably more links on those pages that might be helpful.

Good luck finding a Linux distro that works on those netbooks for you and also gets your wireless working.

Jim,
Quote:

You get what you pay for.

If you all you care about is getting the (seemingly) best hardware specifications for a certain dollar amount, I am sure it is a great choice. If, however, you care about software and end user support, you might want to buy something else which may have a slightly dated processor but is supplied by a company that is known to continously invest in software development.

Well, those are a start.
Looks like Angstrom Linux has been ported, but Debian is still a work in progress.
Hopefully, in the future these netbooks will be usable.

> Debian is still a work in progress.

Seems to run:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=694872

Quote:

When tablets first appeared they shipped pretty much anything that they could get to boot (I've seen some - I'm not joking!).

That includes things like the WM8650, that chip is 2 generations behind the Raspberry Pi. Most of the low end has now been taken over by the Allwinner A10, it's got a Cortex A8 and a Mali-400 GPU. It's just ahead of the first iPad CPU wise but surprisingly good given the price they go for (do a search on eBay). There's a whole bunch of companies targeting this end of the market so expect to get even more for your (little) money soon.

ASiegel,
Quote:

Sometimes, apparently, you get more.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=694872

Thanks for pointing that out Andreas.
I have a message sent to the guy that probably made that possible, but he hasn't responded yet.

Debian on a WM8650 based device is probably pretty slow, but it should be a big improvement over Win CE.

Edit - Now that i think about it, the "you get what you pay for" line makes even less sense.
I paid $19 for my Quicksilver and $75 for my 1.42 GHz FW800. Both were worth more in my opinion.
If you search around, sometimes you get a lot more then you paid for.

[ Edited by Jim 03.06.2012 - 03:54 ]

Update:

> I'm inclined to believe that Mamba will stay their "fastest" (if you can even say
> that for 1.2 GHz) Power Architecture chip.

I was wrong:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=735

1.4 GHz, hmm?
My FW800 is still faster (by a little).
I guess they're creeping up there slowly.
If its cheap it might be useful, since Freescale processors that are more powerful then this usually command a high price.

Not so bad being wrong. eh Andreas?

> 1.4 GHz, hmm? My FW800 is still faster (by a little).

And probably even more so when you not only take the clock frequencies into account but also the performances per clock.

> I guess they're creeping up there slowly.

Yes, apparently they're slowly creeping up to their previously announced 1.5 GHz the same way Freescale is slowly creeping up to their originally announced 2.5 GHz (currently at 2.4 GHz) :-)

> If its cheap it might be useful

Surprisingly, Avnet is already listing the Black Mamba chips (albeit only up to 1.2 GHz for now):

1.2 GHz APM86691: 73...80 USD
1.2 GHz APM86692: 110...120 USD

> Not so bad being wrong. eh Andreas?

Yes, I have no problem with being wrong and admitting it, and never had ;-)

@ Jim

Quote:

The statement was made in reference to the purchase of brand new electronics products. Pointing out exceptions such as second-hand sales between individuals or special discounts after a product has reached the end of its life does little to disprove the rule.

I am certain it is fair to say that the majority of visitors of this website value quality software much more than raw processing power or hardware feature lists. Since you are a frequent poster, it is surprising to me that you consider Cortex A8-based ARM hardware options to be too slow, yet you buy even slower hardware from manufacturers who spend very few resources on software development and testing and represent opposite values regarding the priority of software and hardware when you compare them with MorphOS.

I suppose the mystery of consumer behaviour continues...


@ minator

Quote:

I am familiar with the Allwinner A10. I did not mean to say that you cannot get reasonably good processing power at bargain prices. I was trying to point out that by going for the very lowest prices you end up buying from manufacturers that deliberately do not spend much on the software side which has strong implications for the overall consumer experience.

I have seen quite a few entry-level tablets with horrible Android ports that were good at little else but giving Android a bad name.

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

Only because you're not wrong often.

ASiegel,
Quote:

Yes, I do have a different priority with this low end hardware then I do with better/more expensive hardware.
And I would never recommend an ARM11 solution to anyone else.
I just wanted a compact system with a tolerable browser (which, btw, this system does NOT have without Debian).
The only reason I'm not in favor of A8 devices is that A9 is available at a comparable price (while A15 is likely to be slightly more expensive).
AND, I'd prefer a PPC solution.

I greatly appreciate the functionality of MorphOS "out of the box".
Frankly, if I couldn't have modded this device, I would have gotten rid of it.

Quote:

That was sort of my point. There are some really abysmal tablets out there but newer versions of Android and newer chips seem to be rapidly changing that.

I guess if you make complete tat it'll only ever have a very limited market and it'll dry up very quickly.

The Chinese seem to start with making rubbish and then get better rapidly. Some of the stuff they make is easily as good as anything made in the west and usually far cheaper. This hasn't happened with tablets - yet.