X1000
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > MorphOS soon supports every single PPC system worth supporting.

    Does "soon" allude to the announced Sam460 port? Btw, as that thread shows, certain yet unsupported iMac G5 models are apparently deemed worth supporting by some people, as is the last PowerMac G5 (late 2005) generation.
  • »15.09.13 - 18:12
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    @takemehomegrandma,

    I am not debating anything, only expressing my own opinions and hopes for the future. And in my opinion, both AROS and MorphOS would progress faster if they combined forces and decided to work toward a common goal, no matter what they decided to call it, or who was put in charge of managing it. Obviously, more organization than is currently present with AROS, would be a good thing.

    All your talk in "absolutes" is laughable. You have a very narrow point of view and cannot see your way out of your paper bag. I also don't see how any of your years of "calling Ben Hermans' bluffs" has made one bit of difference in how Hyperion behaves. I also believe that anyone who chooses to use AmigaOS4.x or any other operating system without first researching all aspects of its features, hardware it runs on, and history of the company behind it, well then they deserve exactly what they get and should not complain when the promises are not kept, or features never arrive.

    Why you think it is your job to try to protect all these ignorant users from making a mistake, or being fooled by Ben Hermans is very amusing. MorphOS is a good enough operating system to stand on its own merits when compared to AmigaOS4.x, or AROS, so there is no reason to mention failed promises, or lack of features of any other operating system, when you can just point out the positive aspects of MorphOS to potential new users and let them choose if it is the right choice for them. That is the approach I take at each AmiWest Show, and it has worked very well for the last 5 or 6 years.

    Edit:

    I will even go further and state that I know many users who have been turned off by your and other peoples negative campaign against Hyperion, Ben Hermans and AmigaOS4.x in general, to the point that they will never consider even looking at what MorphOS has to offer. You and others will counter that it is "Good", or perfectly acceptable to lose such people and we don't need them as members of the MorphOS community, but what if just one, or several of those people turned away are talented programmers, who might have contributed some useful software for our platform of choice?

    That is all I have to say on this topic, as it is useless to debate such things with someone who has such opposing ideas to my own. You will go on doing what you do, and I will continue as I have done in the past years, trying to make friends with other AmigaOS4.x users and programmers and show them what MorphOS3.x is capable of doing.

    As for Henes comment that everyone who does not denounce Ben Hermans, or Hyperion being a criminal, is then an accomplice to what ever he has done, you are joking, aren't you? I don't defend their choices or policies, I don't like many things they have done or said, and I don't agree how they manage their business, but that is their (or his) decision and choices which they (he) have to live with. In my own opinion, Ben Hermans is driving AmigaOS4.x straight into the ground and destroying what little is left of the future for AmigaOS4.x systems, and he will never let go the control he now owns, until his dying breath. But that is just my own opinion and counts for nothing toward what they will, or will not do in the future. He is the architect behind acquiring the rights to controlling AmigaOS4.x development, so there is nothing anyone else can do about what decisions are now made.

    [ Edited by amigadave 16.09.2013 - 16:29 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »15.09.13 - 20:26
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    Kronos
    Posts: 2231 from 2003/2/24
    amigadave,
    Quote:

    Obviously, more organization than is currently present with AROS, would be a good thing.


    I would say evidence suggest that most AROS-devs are AROS-devs and not MorphOS or 0S4-devs mainly because they don't want to "get organized".

    Still doesn't mean that code couldn't flow between AROS and MorphOS on specific projects.
  • »15.09.13 - 20:36
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    Henes
    Posts: 507 from 2003/6/14
    Quote:

    Why you think it is your job to try to protect all these ignorant users from making a mistake, or being fooled by Ben Hermans is very amusing.

    My moral tells me that not denouncing a criminal act is being its accounplice.

    The world will never have enough idealists.


    [ Edited by Henes 15.09.2013 - 23:21 ]
  • »15.09.13 - 21:17
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > This computer is still a paperware for now

    New information on the P-Cubed from one week ago:

    "we are currently finalizing pricing and availability for both the CTS-1000 and P-Cubed at this time. [...] The current plan for the P-Cubed is an single ethernet port."
    http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-ppc/2013-09/msg00012.html

    ...and some older ones from 1.5 months ago that confirm Krashan's "paperware" comment:

    "sometimes things get placed on the back burner. I can assure you, it's not dead. We are looking at places to finish the BOM and produce some initial boards."
    http://ben-collins.blogspot.com/2012/11/servergy-announces-new-powerpc.html?showComment=1376435397591#c5701107643233468404
  • »28.09.13 - 15:16
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > SATA controllers on P5 must be enabled, thus x4 x4 x1 x1 PCIe config is best

    Seems like that's exactly the PCIe configuration A-Eon is using on the Cyrus board:

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38284&forum=2&start=100#719786

    (One x4 will have x16 slot, just like done on Sam460ex, only that with QorIQ P5 it's PCIe 2.0 instead of PCIe 1.x with PPC460EX. This also means PCIe bandwidth for graphics on Cyrus is half that of Nemo's PCIe 1.x x16.)
  • »21.10.13 - 00:37
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > "we are currently finalizing pricing and availability for both the CTS-1000 and P-Cubed
    > at this time. [...] The current plan for the P-Cubed is an single ethernet port."
    > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-ppc/2013-09/msg00012.html

    P4080-based CTS-1000 has been officially launched:
    http://www.servergy.com/servergy-launches-new-class-of-servers/

    Meanwhile, all traces of the P-Cubed seem to have been removed from http://www.servergy.com.
  • »21.10.13 - 22:41
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    Meanwhile, all traces of the P-Cubed seem to have been removed from http://www.servergy.com.


    Just noticed this myself - google's search results even still show page hits, but even the orginal news release (October 2010) has been removed.
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

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  • »23.10.13 - 16:40
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    boot_wb wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    Meanwhile, all traces of the P-Cubed seem to have been removed from http://www.servergy.com.


    Just noticed this myself - google's search results even still show page hits, but even the orginal news release (October 2010) has been removed.


    As yet no reply from Chris Rains to the e-mail I sent asking for clarification/update on the status of my pre-order enquiry.
    AFter completing the form I was sent an e-mail stating I would be on the pre-order list 'soon',, however this was never followed up with any progress.

    I strongly suspect either it was a prospective 'test' of the potential market for such a product, or (more cynically) a tool to boost Servergy's value on paper.
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

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  • »24.10.13 - 12:44
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I strongly suspect either it was a prospective 'test' of the potential market for
    > such a product, or (more cynically) a tool to boost Servergy's value on paper.

    Yes, given that they apparently didn't even have a prototype board as late as August (i.e. 9 months after the announcement), there's certainly something fishy there.
  • »24.10.13 - 13:46
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > True SMP can't be incorporated in Amiga without breaking the Amiga.

    ssolie says this:

    "X-Kernel Update
    [...]
    - All cores schedule tasks independently
    - Load balancing between cores
    "
    http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1010

    "Cyrus just happens to use the x-kernel exclusively unlike the X1000 which can run either kernel. At some point we'll merge the two kernel streams together of course."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38284&forum=2&start=300#720698

    Well, let's see...
  • »30.10.13 - 21:12
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > True SMP can't be incorporated in Amiga without breaking the Amiga.

    ssolie says this:

    "X-Kernel Update
    [...]
    - All cores schedule tasks independently
    - Load balancing between cores
    "
    http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1010

    "Cyrus just happens to use the x-kernel exclusively unlike the X1000 which can run either kernel. At some point we'll merge the two kernel streams together of course."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38284&forum=2&start=300#720698

    Well, let's see...


    :lol:

    Yeah, "merge the two kernel streams together"... :lol:

    I don't even know where to start on that statement, it's ... surreal! Does he have a clue at all? "Merging kernel streams", I mean, WTF? What? Why? How? One is obviuosly the old "Exec SG" made by the Friedens (made for the OS4 which aims to be Amiga compatible), the new one (wonder who is doing that one BTW, maybe ssolie himself?) is SMP enabled and thus incompatible to the Amiga environment! "Merge" these?

    "Well, let's see" indeed! :lol:

    Well, after all, this is "ssolie", the man who "has an amazing grasp of Amiga programming, so much so that he has re-written the 'C' language to make it more Amiga efficient"!

    So who knows? ;-)

    :lol:
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »31.10.13 - 10:47
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    ...also interesting to see that the "Cyrus" will *only* run the new SMP enabled kernel, and *not* the Amiga compatible one! :-o

    Now I just hope that they choose to call these Amiga incompatible systems "A3000" or "A5000" or such, because then the irony couldn't possibly become bigger!

    :lol:
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »31.10.13 - 10:58
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "Cyrus" will *only* run the new SMP enabled kernel, and *not* the Amiga compatible one!

    He used present tense there, not future tense.
  • »31.10.13 - 11:20
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > To me it seems that T2080 could be pretty good PA6T replacement.

    Sampling now:

    http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1871882
  • »05.11.13 - 01:14
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > To me it seems that T2080 could be pretty good PA6T replacement.

    Sampling now:

    http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1871882


    The T2080 looks like a good possible CPU for any PPC Amiga/Morph/AROS system, if any kind of multi-processor support can be completed. The fact that it includes Altivec is a plus.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »05.11.13 - 22:42
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Wow, glad I waited awhile before wading back into this one.
    I, for one, am still interested in current developments in PPC hardware and enjoy hearing about they endeavors of those promoting them.
    While I can understand takemehomegrandma's opinions on the impracticality of expecting people to pay $3000 for a new system, I can not join in his apparent desire to deride A-eon's new products.
    I am very comfortable with the direction that Paul Gentle and Varisys have taken A-eon's product line.
    Paul (and Andreas I might add) have been pointing to the Qorlq line for some time as the best choice for new development.
    Is this stuff expensive?
    Your damned right it is, and with the low sales volumes and relatively high processor prices I can't see this changing.
    BUT, at least someone is building new hardware.
    YEAH, its not X86 or ARM based.
    OUR operating system of choice does NOT run on those architectures.
    And if it ever will, or when it might, is completely in the hands of the developers - WHOSE JUDGEMENT I TRUST IMPLICITLY.

    Haven't we had a pretty good run these last several years?
    Do you see any mistakes in their judgement, because I do not.
    I have said this before, and until the adoption of an new ISA is announced I will keep repeating it,
    if you want to use X86 or ARM hardware, switch to AROS - and stop trying to bully the MorphOS developers to follow whatever course of action you deem correct.
    Do you honestly think these guys have remained in this community without the skills and abilities that allow them to render good judgments?

    Honestly, I have been in personal computing since its inception (from the early days when if you wanted it you built it), and frankly these guys are some of the most talented developers that I have ever been fortunate enough to know (and have had the blessing of using their creative outputs).

    Isn't it about "shut the fuck up" time?
    No, we have not explored that last useful PPC hardware.
    There is still Acube's product line, the other G5 Macs (especially the PCIe models), and even A-eon's new designs - which curiously enough feature processors that Andreas has been quietly point us toward for years.

    And if the developers should decide that they have tired from spending years working hard with virtually no reward at developing this OS, and that they can no longer handle the entirely too Amiga-like piss poor attitude of the user base, that they no longer care to throw their pearls before swine...

    I will have what we've been given. And in years to come I think I'll look back on this with a strong sense of admiration for the people who pushed this so far.

    Personally, I'd like to render my apologies for ever asking for more and my sincere thanks for what has been rendered.

    Damned good job guys.
    I wish I had something even marginally close to this in my resume.
    If you are not recognized in this life, I suspect you have accomplished enough to have earned your reward in the next.

    Sincerely,
    Jim Igou
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.11.13 - 00:05
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Jim

    I know what you mean, but I think there is another way of looking at it.

    Imagine MorphOS being released and everybody just "Oh, cool. Great job." and then return to another OS of choice. People then don't refrain from demand stuff or pester the developers because they are polite. They don't because they don't care.

    Having a lot of people demanding function A or program B is a clear sign of appriciation. They like this so much that they really wants this to move forward. Maybe a lot faster than whats realisticly possible, but you can't blame people for not understanding the true nature of the development process.

    I think that when people are vocal about their concern of the future (?) platform shift, it's simply because they want there to be a future. I'm one of them. And if that isn't a true sign of appriciation I don't know what is.

    [ Edited by Yasu 06.11.2013 - 13:52 ]
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  • »06.11.13 - 12:50
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Trust me, over night I had some chance to think over that post and it may be a little over the top.
    And I too have my own opinions about an ISA change, if one occurs.

    But for now, can't we just be grateful that we have gotten this far?

    And, to takemehomegrandma, if it appears that I have abused you too, my apologias.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.11.13 - 15:23
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    ...also interesting to see that the "Cyrus" will *only* run the new SMP enabled kernel, and *not* the Amiga compatible one! :-o



    Where have you read that the "new SMP enabled kernel" will not be "Amiga compatible"?

    Other than several assumptions from people outside Hyperion about any kind of multi-processor, or multi-core support breaking Amiga compatibility, I have not seen any definitive statements from Hyperion that their proposed "SMP support" will break Amiga compatibility.

    I trust many of the people who have been saying that "True SMP" (what ever that really means), cannot be accomplished without breaking Amiga backward compatibility, we don't yet know what kind of SMP support Hyperion is going to implement, and therefore don't know if it will break Amiga backward compatibility (unless I missed some statement from them).

    The impression I have gotten from the statements I have read from Hyperion lead me to believe the way they are going to implement some kind of multi-processor/core support will NOT break backward Amiga compatibility, but as I wrote above, I have not seen anything from Hyperion that clearly states one way or the other about backward Amiga compatibility.

    [ Edited by amigadave 06.11.2013 - 13:53 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »06.11.13 - 21:50
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > several assumptions from people outside Hyperion about any kind of multi-processor,
    > or multi-core support breaking Amiga compatibility

    Where have you seen those assumptions? I can only remember this being said about *symmetric* multiprocessing, and I think everybody has been in agreement that asymmetric multiprocessing won't break any compatibility.

    > we don't yet know what kind of SMP support Hyperion is going to implement

    What kinds of SMP support are there?
  • »06.11.13 - 22:44
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I think it is a safe assumption that Steven Solie does not know the difference between SMP and ASMP.
    Also, MorphOS, just by the nature of being able to support boxed environments, is already better suited to either than AmigaOS.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.11.13 - 23:09
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > As yet no reply from Chris Rains to the e-mail I sent asking for clarification/update on the
    > status of my pre-order enquiry. [...] I strongly suspect either it was a prospective 'test'
    > of the potential market for such a product, or (more cynically) a tool to boost Servergy's
    > value on paper.

    "P-Cubed (PowerLinux Dev/Compute Node Board)" mentioned in a Freescale presentation from October (uploaded 3 weeks ago):

    http://www.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/DWF13_M2M_IoT_SDN_SanJose.pdf (page 23)

    (...and also revealed there that the successor of the P4080-based CTS-1000 will be based on the T4240.*)


    * Edit:

    "The company is also giving the industry a sneak-peek of its 64-bit Cleantech I/O accelerator and server [...]. The new 64-bit system is currently under development and will be out later this year."
    http://servergy.com/servergy-gives-preview-of-worlds-densest-powerlinux-soc-server-at-ocp-summit/

    "CTS-64000"
    http://oracleus.activeevents.com/2014/connect/fileDownload/session/BD8C94DD27862557EA8B766C0F0B7BD9/CON5660_Beckwith-J1.pdf (10/2014, pages 50 to 56)

    http://www.infoq.com/articles/Hadoop-Cluster (12/2014)

    https://community.freescale.com/servlet/JiveServlet/previewBody/105848-102-1-27287/ftf-snt-f1205.pdf (06/2015, pages 33/34)

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 14.07.2015 - 17:42 ]
  • »29.11.13 - 09:42
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    >"(...and also revealed there that the successor of the P4080-based CTS-1000 will be based on the T4240.)"

    Now that is cool. 24 virtual cores!
    Our developers announce a future ISA change, and things keep happening in the PPC world.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.11.13 - 22:18
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> the successor of the P4080-based CTS-1000 will be based on the T4240

    > things keep happening in the PPC world.

    According to this article, the CTS-1000 is about 15,000 USD, so don't expect its successor to be any cheaper. But on the other hand, there is another T4240-based system going for less than a tenth:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7780&forum=11&start=34


    Edit: Massive price drop for the CTS-1000:

    "prices start at $1,000."
    http://servergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Servergy-CTS-QuadS-Flyer-11-10-14.pdf

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 18.11.2014 - 12:09 ]
  • »29.11.13 - 23:06
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