> I've met Ali Dixon from XMOS too - he was happy to refer to the X1000 as "vapourware". :)

I remember you've told about that incident already elsewhere in December 2011 :-) And as events have turned out some weeks later, he was wrong.

amigadave,
Quote:
XC programming language - I assume that's the primary language used to program Xena?

We were taught that along with CSP. The latter is used for formal reasoning about concurrent programs. That's pretty essential when getting multiple XMOS cores or threads to communicate, or the XC program will have all kinds of race conditions.

Most students on my course struggled with the shift in paradigm from sequential programming, it really requires a lot of formal planning to avoid deadlock. Even for seasoned programmers. What didn't help was the bugs in the version of XC we were using - two semantically-equivalent programs gave different results. Hopefully XMOS will debug their SDK.

Quote:

At $3000+, nobody (other than a few... ehrm, "brave" ones) would ever buy something like it today, even if they could. Which they can't, since it's not up for sale. There has been 2 (or three?) small batches produced, on a pre-order scheme (and probably pre-payment as well), with sporadic deliveries many months later. There is very poor SW support for it, especially in OS4 which is the whole point of the HW. It relies entirely on a CPU that never reached a commercial phase, samples are limited (and the company behind it doesn't exist anymore, the design is as dead as it can be), and so is the potential production volumes of the motherboard in question, even if it would have customers, which it hasn't, since it's not out for sale, and wouldn't have had even if it were, since they are asking more than $3,000 for this piece of 2005 specced HW. So for anyone developing real products, for real markets (like XMOS does), this is just as much a *none-product* as vapor is, and this won't change!

[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 04.06.2012 - 10:49 ]

amigadave,
Quote:

Hmmm.. that's in late October isn't it?

I admire your optimism

Quote:

>>> I've met Ali Dixon from XMOS too - he was happy to refer to the
>>> X1000 as "vapourware". :)

>> I remember you've told about that incident already elsewhere in
>> December 2011 :-) And as events have turned out some weeks later,
>> he was wrong.

> At $3000+, [...] a few... ehrm, "brave" ones [...] would [...] buy
> something like it today [...].

Exactly that's what happened.

> it's not up for sale.

True, it's not up for sale *right now*, but it was up for sale in the past and there is sufficient proof that it has been purchased by people back then. The term "vapourware" does not mean something is not up for sale right now, but does mean that something has never been up for sale (and probably will never be).

> There has been 2 (or three?) small batches produced

To date it's been just one single batch ("First Contact") sold to regular customers:

http://www.a-eon.com/news/25-01-2012.html

> probably pre-payment as well

Yes, this is a known and admitted fact:

"Will the money be taken stright away or only at shipping? - AmigaKit will take a deposit, final payment will be required before delivery."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34475&forum=33&start=20#634850

> It relies entirely on a CPU that never reached a commercial phase

AFAIK, the PA6T-1682M went from sample to production level somewhen between late 2007 and early 2008. Whether the PA6T chips in possession of A-Eon are sample or production level chips I don't know. If my timeline of events resembles the truth it should be production level ones.

> so is the potential production volumes of the motherboard in question

True, the number of Nemo boards that can be produced for the X1000 is limited by the number of PA6T chips they have in possession. I don't know what that number is and so don't you. Of course we can speculate about that number, but that won't affect my opinion about the X1000's (non-)vapourware status.

> even if it would have customers, which it hasn't [...].
> and wouldn't have had even if it were, since they are asking
> more than $3,000

Some sentences before you stated that is has "a few... ehrm, "brave"" customers paying that price. So which one is it?

> since it's not out for sale

It was out for sale, and the people who purchased it are existing customers, according to my definition of that term at least. Even if there was no further batch to ever be sold to new customers, this wouldn't make the already existing customers non-existent. There's even someone attempting to put up a (non-exclusive) list of existing X1000 customers:

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/217870.shtml

> this piece of 2005 specced HW.

I think it's more like 2007-specced hardware. The graphics card it comes with was released in 2008 btw.

> for anyone developing real products, for real markets (like XMOS
> does), this is just as much a *none-product* as vapor is

I don't share your definition of the term "vapourware", and thus I still think Ali Dixon was proved wrong. The difference between him and you is that he made his "vapourware" statement prior to the X1000 being put up for sale to regular customers whereas you keep on making it even now.

@Andreas

It's simple really. You can't buy it, there aren't any available, it's not "in production", and except from one or two limited batches (with very special circumstances attached to it, see below), it has *never* been. One of the key parts of the equation, the SW part (OS4, the very base for the "AmigaOne" name license, for the boing ball on the case, the single one reason to *the very existence* of the AmigaOne X1000 concept in the first place), is even quite far from supporting it as it should, it will possibly take several years still until it does, if ever. They have made limited production batches, the first one sold as "Beta tester" boards under NDA. Sure, our views on the term "Vapor" may differ, but IMHO when something is being made in extremely limited batches, without key components being finished yet, and the thing is labeled "First Contact", "Early Bird", whatever, and when customers are asked not to talk about their experiences in public but in closed, private forums, etc, when customers are discouraged from testing/benchmarking the thing, etc *with references to its unfinished state*, then I think it's more appropriate to call it "Prototype" being sold while in development, rather than "Product", and IMHO this is what a very limited bunch of people are in possession of. Prototypes. Not a finished product. There are some people in possession of the Amiga Walker from Amiga Technologies. There are some people in possession of the C65 from Commodore. There are many more examples of things actually existing in a tangible form (read: the results of something coming out from a very limited production run), but prototypes nevertheless, that has not yet reached its full specifications. The AmigaOne X1000 as a whole has not yet reached its 1.0 level. It has never been sold from stock without prior written agreements between the customer and the producer directly, like normal products would. I couldn't order one this instant and have it shipped to me today, even if I wanted to, and this has *never* been possible! Never! It's not here, it's not even finished. It's vapor. Prototype maybe, but it's a none-product nevertheless.


[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 04.06.2012 - 14:20 ]

Speaking of the A1X1K, someone over at moobunny seems to have compiled a list of known owners:

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/217870.shtml

Quote:

Does anyone know about a nick/name of someone that is missing from the list, that should be added there?

[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 02.07.2012 - 17:27 ]

> It's simple really.

Indeed it is:

1. The X1000 exists.
2. An unknown to us number of X1000 units was available for sale.
3. All of those X1000 units available for sale so far have been purchased.

Points 1 and 2 mean the X1000 is not vapourware, at least according to all definitions of the term "vapourware" I'm aware of. Point 3 means there are customers who bought the X1000, at least according to all definitions of the term "customer" I'm aware of.

> You can't buy it, there aren't any available

I already explained to you that the *current* availability status has no bearing on whether the product is vapourware or not and whether it has customers or not, especially as the X1000 units were verifiably on sale and were verifiably purchased by customers.

> it's not "in production"

Apart from the fact that the *current* production status has no bearing on whether the product is vapourware or not, how do you know? There's even an X1000 betatester claiming that the Nemo boards of the new X1000 batch to be put on sale in "late Q2 2012" are readily produced and being shelved at AmigaKit since the beginning of May:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?f=1%26t=234%26start=80

> and except from one or two limited batches [...], it has *never* been.

So essentially you say that it has been in production indeed. Thanks for proving my point.

> Sure, our views on the term "Vapor" may differ

They do, obviously.

> customers are asked not to talk about their experiences in public
> but in closed, private forums

Asked by whom exactly? A-Eon? AmigaKit? X1000 betatesters? Other customers?

> customers are discouraged from testing/benchmarking the thing

Discouraged by whom exactly? A-Eon? AmigaKit? X1000 betatesters? Other customers?

> I think it's more appropriate to call it "Prototypes" being sold
> while in development, rather than "Products", and IMHO this is what
> a very limited bunch of people are in possession of. Prototypes.
> Not a finished product.

I see you are solely concentrating on the software side of the X1000 product here, i.e. OS4 (after all, the Nemo v2.1 board seems to be quite a solid product), but I don't see how your Wikipedia link supports your assessment that the non-support for several components of the X1000 in OS4 makes the X1000 a prototype. My connotation of the term "prototype" is something much less complete and functional, such like the Amiga Walker and the C65.

> There are some people in possession of the Amiga Walker from Amiga
> Technologies. There are some people in possession of the C65 from
> Commodore.

See above.

> There are many more examples of things actually existing in a
> tangible form (read: the results of something coming out from a very
> limited production run), but prototypes nevertheless, that has not
> yet reached its full specifications.

As your view of the X1000 as a "prototype" is obviously limited to the software side of things, the customers can at least hope for their "prototype" to reach "full specifications" in a very easy way, i.e. by downloading and installing software updates. A real hardware prototype upgrade is much harder to proceed :-)

> The AmigaOne X1000 [...] has never been sold from stock without prior
> written agreements between the customer and the producer directly

The current "First Contact" customers had to sign written agreements with A-Eon? Could you please cite a reliable reference for this claim?

> I couldn't order one this instant and have it shipped to me today,
> even if I wanted to, and this has *never* been possible!

True, but that doesn't mean it's "vapourware" nor that there are no customers. You could try to order a Pandora or a Raspberry Pi this instant and have it shipped to you today :-)

> It's not here

True, it's with the existing customers.

> It's vapor. Prototype maybe, but it's a none-product nevertheless.

I still don't think so.

@Andreas

I'm not trying to claim that the X1000 doesn't exist, not at all. But in my book, it still hasn't lived up to its claims, it still hasn't proved itself to be a readily developed product according to its goals, it still hasn't proved that it can exist outside the incubator in a self-sustained way on the market, it still hasn't proved itself to be viable in any way. The biggest challenge in putting a product to the market (for *real*), isn't about R&D. You are *not* done when you have a PCB in limited numbers, the biggest effort, what separates the *products* from the *none-products* (the vapor), still remains. And this is actually where most projects fails! Of all these more or less ambitious projects that never reached the market...

A/box
a3400
A1000+
A2200 (Computer Answers)
A5000 MK1
A5000 MK2 (Power Computing)
A6000 (Power Computing)
AA3000 (Commodore)
AHT STB
Amiga 1400 (Commodore)
Amiga 3000+ (Commodore)
Amiga 4030L Portable (Quickpak)
Amiga 4060L Portable (Quickpak)
Amiga 4040L (Quickpak)
Amiga 4060L (Quickpak)
Amiga 5050T (Quickpak)
Amiga 1630LD (Quickpak)
Amiga ED (Viscorp)
Amiga MCC (Gateway - Amiga Inc)
Amiga MCC 1000
Amiga MCC 1200
Amiga Nyx
AmigaOne 1200
AmigaOne 4000
AmigaONE 1GHz CPU module (ACK)
AmigaONE 1.7GHz CPU module (ACK)
AmigaONE Dual 7410 Cpu Module (eyetech)
AmigaOS 4 Concept Developer System (Gateway - Amiga inc)
AmiJoe
AmiRage K2
Amy05
Apollo ViperPPC
Blizzard2604
BlizzardG3
BlizzardG4
BoXeR
Brainstormer
BSC MemoryMaster 1230
BSC TurboMaster 3050
BuddhaFlash A500
C5300 workstation
C5400 workstation
CD1200 (Commodore Amiga)
CD32 Game System 030 accelerator (Commodore)
CDTV Arcnet controller
CDTV CR
CDTV CR Mpeg card
CDTV2
Coldfire4000 (1)
Commodore 2631
Comspec Arm 1000 (Amiga Rom Module for A1000)
Comspec SA500 (A500 SCSI Expansion Adapter)
CV3D Mpeg card
CyberstormG3
CyberstormG4
daVinci Gfx card
Delfina Flipper - original Zorro/PCI "flipper" board
DKB Talon - Zorro gfx
DKB Inferno - gfx addon for Wildfire
Dragon1200
Dragon4000
eClips
eflash1200
Elbox EM8400 MPEG-2 hardware decoder
Elbox ISDN PCI card
Eureka Afterburner
G-MCC
Gigatron Amiga laptop
GVP A4098
Harms TurboJet 4000
Harms TurboJet 5000
HiQ "Alpha Project"
Hombre
Hurricane
I-MCC
Impulse Multiprocessing system
Inside Out
iPhantom
Kickflash (Individual Computers)
Lepord
M-Box
Martina Sound Card
M.A.S.T Infinity Machine - expansion box for A500 with 030
Melody CDTV soundcard
MicroA1 XC
MicroA1-I
O'Connell 68K™ "classic" Amiga® compatible notebook computer
Panda
ParaGlide
Pegasos I G4 cpu boards
Pegasos I Dual cpu boards
Pegasos II Dual cpu boards
PIOS One
PowerAmiga (Escom)
PowerVixxenLT
PowerVixxenTL
Pre/box
SharkPPC
Siamese PCI
Silicon Studio - Zorro III sound
Sunrize DD-524 - optical I/O for AD-516
TeronPX (AmigaOne)
TransAM
Tsunami
UltraBus USB Zorro Card (Creative Development)
Unnamed A1200 accelerator (ACK 2004)
Unnamed A1200 modular busboard & Accelerator combo (ACK 2004)
Unnamed A500 PPC accelerator + AGA (DCE)
Unnamed Amiga compatible laptop (BoXer developers)
Unnamed Amiga PPC computer (H&P)
Unnamed Supra 040 accelerator for A3000
Unnamed Z-III AGA upgrade card
Unity Zorro PCMCIA slot
Universal Internet Television Interface - UITI (Viscorp)
Unnamed PPC405 based PDA (Amiga Inc)
VideoToaster - PAL version
Wonder TV A6000
Walker

...quite a few actually *did* reach a level where they existed in a tangible form, hence they could be sold in the same way as the X1000, but still they failed to make it through the *true* challenge, to enter market in a self-sustaining way! This usually takes *a lot* of resources, hence it's a big risk, and if the "product" isn't viable enough, then this is where the stop button is usually being pressed. This is where projects become vapor. The X1000 simply doesn't have the resources to live, it can *not* breathe by itself, that is obvious to anyone that doesn't walk around with a white stick and Stevie Wonder sun glasses. And the X1000 certainly isn't readily developed either! Sure, the HW design exists and can be manufactured if wanted (and afforded). But the HW is the *minor* part in the AmigaOne X1000 product; it's merely a vessel (that can actually be replaced), where OS4 is the soul. It's OS4 that defines the AmigaOne, not the "Nemo". OS4 was shown running on the X1000 at the Vintage Computing Festival in 2010. Not much seems to have happened since then, when it comes to OS4. The latest headlines were about RS-232 serial device drivers, or whatever. But the problem is Hyperion's track record. USB2 was announced a decade(?) ago, and still not all users experience flawless USB2 experience, judging from online posts. Sam460 has been sold to end-users for more than a year(?), and still it hasn't stable drivers for *fundamental* parts of the system. So I'd say the AmigaOne X1000 still has "some way to go" (to say the least ) to reach its announced true SMP, Radeon HD 3D support, "Xena", support for its on-board controllers, and tons of other things that I seriously doubt will *ever* get here. You think it's a *product* just because some PCB exists in some peoples possession. I don't agree with your definition. I'd agree to it being less vapor than "UltimatePPC" or "NatAmi", but IMO it has much more in common with the C65 or Amiga Walker, than it has to the Raspberry Pi (which is a real product, made by a real company with real resources, it has a real market, real viability etc, in other words - not in any way comparable), it's more of a prototype sold while still under development than a finished product on sale that lives up to its announced and promised specifications.

It's not fully developed, that's a fact (and it's a great possibility that it *never* will be), it's certainly not self-sustaining, it can't live without a life support machine, its producers can't even afford to produce it in tiny batches without pre-orders in writing as well as pre-payments, it's simply not available to customers wanting to buy it, it has never been up for sale in the normal way that real consumer products usually are. Maybe there won't *ever* be another production run, its poor viability speaks in favor of that, the HW is nothing short of insane and I think people starts to realize this, and they see the poor 2005 level performance. Chances are *overwhelming* that it never will become anything close to what it was set out to be. In short: It has *a lot* to prove, and it's not even close yet. Hence it's a none-product in my views, just like the C65, the Walker, and many of the listed "products" above. I think the chances are pretty slim that it will *ever* live up to the announced specifications (true SMP without breaking the "Amiga" in OS4, yeah right...), and chances are actually that more C65's were produced, and "sold" for that matter.

[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 04.06.2012 - 22:02 ]

> the biggest effort, what separates the *products* from the *none-products* (the vapor),
> still remains.

I don't share this assessment of yours. In my eyes, the X1000 is product enough to be more than "vapourware" and also more than a "none-product".

> Of all these more or less ambitious projects that never reached the market [...] quite
> a few actually *did* reach a level where they existed in a tangible form, hence they
> could be sold in the same way as the X1000

Which of those listed projects specifically you consider having reached a state comparable to the current state of the X1000 so they could have been "sold in the same way as the X1000"? I glanced through your list and didn't notice any project that came as far as the X1000 currently is, except for "TeronPX (AmigaOne)", which not only could have been sold but actually was sold.

> if the "product" isn't viable enough, then this is where the stop button is usually being
> pressed. This is where projects become vapor.

This is not my understanding of the term. If a product reaches one or more production runs, is sold to regular customers and is only then stopped from being produced, it's not vapourware any more in my book. It would be a very short-lived product, though.

> Sure, the HW design exists and can be manufactured if wanted (and afforded).

I even think that the Nemo v2.1 board is some solid piece of hardware, even with that XCore nonsense on board.

> the HW is the *minor* part in the AmigaOne X1000 product

I don't share this assessment. More than 95% of what the X1000 customers pay for the product is for the hardware part alone.

> It's OS4 that defines the AmigaOne, not the "Nemo".

The AmigaOne X1000 product as specified by A-Eon is defined by the combination of OS4 on the software side and the Nemo board, the boing ball case and other minor parts (like the gfx card) on the hardware side.

> the problem is Hyperion's track record. [...] Sam460 has been sold to end-users for more
> than a year(?), and still it hasn't stable drivers for *fundamental* parts of the system.

As far as I've understood the distribution of roles, that may be ACube's duty not Hyperion's.

> You think it's a *product* just because some PCB exists in some peoples possession.

No, I think it's a product because the hardware is readily developed, OS4 for it is in a rather usable state (from a perspective of me as a MorphOS user at least) and it is in the hand of customers.

> I don't agree with your definition.

Funny, as you obviously have not even been aware of what my definition actually is. So what you're not agreeing with is your delusion of what my definition is.

> IMO it has much more in common with the C65 or Amiga Walker, than it
> has to the Raspberry Pi (which is [...] not in any way comparable)

I mentioned the Raspberry Pi just because you criticized about the X1000 that you couldn't order one this instant and have it shipped to you today. This has always been the case with the Raspberry Pi as well. This comparison was just made to illustrate the absurdity of your reasoning.

> I think people [...] see the poor 2005 level performance.

I still think it's more like 2007-level performance.

> Hence it's a none-product in my views, just like the C65, the Walker, and many
> of the listed "products" above.

In my view it is a product as it meets the "product" definitions I'm aware of. The C65, the Walker and all items in your list except for the "TeronPX (AmigaOne)" do not meet those.

> chances are actually that more C65's were produced, and "sold" for that matter.

The C65 prototypes built in 1990/1991 were sold as part of the Commodore liquidation sale no earlier than 1994. That's quite a different thing compared to the sale of the X1000 units. In case A-Eon should fold in the near term and batch(es) of X1000 will get sold off I'll look at that comparison again. Until then, I'll consider the X1000 a real product as opposed to the prototype C65 remnants.

Btw, is it just me or did you really dodge my 4 question I asked you regarding certain claims you made (up?)?

takemehomegrandma,
Quote:
Ahem, despite me not frequenting Amiga.org anymore you should really quote the source of this list

[ Edited by redrumloa 04.06.2012 - 18:28 ]

OMG!

Not another of these long winded, polarized series of posts that never goes anywhere.

The X1000 is no more "vaporware" then anything produced by Individual Computers.

Trevor, like Jens Schönfeld, produces his product in limited runs.

You can buy one when they're available.

And like Jens, I'm sure Trevor will tell us when he and Varisys start to run out of PA6T processors for production.

BTW - I wholly expect Trevor to come up with a successor to the X1000.

This isn't in anyway related to the example given by takemehomegrandma as its a successful product that is likely to be the first in a line of products.

"Vaporware", ha!
That implies something intangible that can not be seen or touched.
My friend AmigaDave has one sitting with his other computers (inc[bluding his MorphOS systems), so I know that term does not apply.

[ Edited by Jim 05.06.2012 - 00:05 ]

Don't know about missing people, but I'm not an FC customer. I'm a beta tester. I don't hang about on MB, so I'm not about to correct this post.

@Andreas

The "AmigaOne" would not exist without OS4, for several reasons. Its name is licensed from Hyperion, the makers of OS4, who in turn has a license from Amiga Inc, the Amiga IP owner. The reasons to why it was made, was *only* to produce a system on which OS4 could run. That's the *only* reason. Which means that neither the "Nemo motherboard" would have existed, hadn't it been for OS4. There is no chance in hell that something like Nemo would be developed for 2012+ markets, based on PPC, with "Xorro" and "Xena" and whatever, as a way to run *Linux* in the performance range that PPC Mac's did back in 2005! No way! *OS4* is the reason to why it exists, and there has been other "AmigaOne's" in the past, and maybe there will be others in the future, the HW is merely the vessel, the OS is both the heart and soul of the product, the only thing that isn't replaceable, and 100% of what the "customers" pay for, is for the promise of it being *the fastest way of running OS4*, much thanks to the announced SMP feature (one of the most noticeable parts that simply isn't developed yet, "Xena" and "Xorro" are other, and the fact that the OS isn't even supporting the on-board controllers yet is yet another thing that makes this an unfinished product). *Everything* in "AmigaOne" is about OS4, *everything*, hence it's *the* central part of the AmigaOne concept. And I (and I know I'm hardly the only one) have *serious* doubts that the AmigaOne X1000 will ever live up to its promised features, Hyperion's track record clearly speaks against it, and it will take a lot more than Steven "OS4 has 5000 users" Solie's *words* to make it true.

Not only is the AmigaOne X1000 still *very underdeveloped*, it's *not available* either, and the fact is that it has never been available in the sense that normal consumer products are. When Jens Schönfeld puts a product to the market, he makes the product available, he writes a press release about it, and then you can buy it from his store or one of his resellers. This has *never* been the case with the AmigaOnce X1000, no-one has ever been able to say "Hmm, what should I do today, well, how about getting myself an AmigaOne X1000, I have thought about that for some time, and now it's time to do it". It has never been in stock, anywhere. You can't buy it from Vesalia, not from GGS Data, not from AmigaKit, not even from www.a-eon.com. The reason to why I put so much weight on this, is because of the obvious poor viability of the A1X1K, it's probably the very least viable thing I have ever seen, it can't even breathe by itself, I seriously doubt it could live outside the incubator in which it is being brought up in, meaning it has a lot to prove, a helluvalot more than the Raspberry Pi, which indeed is a real product, very much alive, with a real market, real customers, a real market need to fill, a real purpose, and real support from a real company. Very different from producing some handfull of motherboards based on individual e-mail correspondence directly between the producer and purchaser, production counted in tens of units based on pre-payment, and having them produced/delivered up to half a year later. I remember Thendic France operated like that on their very first, tiny batch of Pegasos 1 boards, a very long time before the first April patch was released and they started to stock up products at resellers, and a very long time before MorphOS reached a usable level on it. They called those "Betatester" systems (not to be confused with later Betatester(2?) systems sold through distributors), and as products they were definitely prototype class. Overall similarities with the current AmigaOne X1000 situation is striking.

So it isn't fully developed yet, it's not available, it's not "in production" (meaning somewhat recurring production runs to fill up stock when stock is getting low ("stock" is not even an applicable term in an A1X1K context)), the poor viability speaks against *any* of this will ever happen, and especially so *all* of them (and chances are that with a few hundred active OS4 users world wide, the market for a $3,000+ product performing like a $300 PowerMac may already be saturated; those few interested enough has already got one, meaning it will be over before it really begun), so in short: It's a none-product! Vapor, until proven differently! It has not yet reached the starting-line of the race in its full configuration! At best it could be considered a prototype, something that hasn't reached its announced features yet and is still under development.

I have understood as much as you don't share my views of "vapor". And I don't share your views of "product". I'm fine with that. I think I will be proven right in the end, but I won't cry if I'm proven wrong. It's a none-issue after all, without any impact on the world (or even the Amiga community) whatsoever. Time will tell, maybe not even a full year from now, maybe a bit more, we'll see...

[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 05.06.2012 - 11:28 ]

Quote:

Hehe, of course!

This is the super-duper mega list of Amiga Vaporware that redrumloa initiated and finalized over at amiga.org (with the help of many others of course)! It's probably the most complete list of its kind in existence, so I shamelessly snagged it and hoped he wouldn't notice!

Quote:

I'm not the one who initially made this list over at moobunny, but since I am the one who reposted it here, I have now corrected it here on MZ! Of course, and thanks for pointing this out!

And again - if anyone knows about a nick/name of anyone that has an A1X1K and is not listed above, please tell me, and I will make the addition!

I can't even be bothered to read all that, never mind go through each point,

so to keep it short;

1: limited edition, short time period to buy the one already out, not the same as vapourwear

2: Not living up to full potential, not the same as vapourwear

And, err. never mind, I'm boring myself now.

@stephen_robinson

It's not yet a product either, especially not what it aimed to be. It's impossible to buy it, there aren't any available, it's not "in production", and except from one or two limited batches (with very special circumstances attached to it) it has *never* been. It is *very* far from being the SMP OS4 system with Xorro and Xena it is set out to be, hence it has more of a "prototype" status attached to it, and since the challenges of *actually reaching* the AmigaOne X1000 specifications are just as *overwhelming* (some would say impossible altogether) as Hyperion's track record and resources are *underwhelming*, I'd say that risks are *huge* that it will *never* happen. So: No product available, never been in production, very far from reaching its specified goals, and extremely doubtful if it ever will, makes it qualify perfectly as vapor in my book.

takemehomegrandma,
Quote:

Errr..

[ Edited by stephen_robinson 05.06.2012 - 15:09 ]

Quote:

In production != produced, see above.

I couldnt care less about this product but it has been produced and it has been sold. It is only limited run at limited stores but it is there.

It is not vaporware.

> 100% of what the "customers" pay for, is for the promise of it being
> *the fastest way of running OS4*

...which it is due to the hardware.

> much thanks to the announced SMP feature

It's already "the fastest way of running OS4" right now, without the second core in use.

> one of the most noticeable parts that simply isn't developed
> yet, "Xena" and "Xorro" are other

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7183&start=663

> the OS isn't even supporting the on-board controllers yet

It isn't supporting *all* the on-board controllers yet, namely two (audio and Ethernet). The rest is supported as far as I'm aware.

> Jens Schönfeld

What has Jens Schönfeld to do with anything I wrote?

> You can't buy it from [...] AmigaKit, not even from www.a-eon.com.

You were able to buy it from AmigaKit, which has been appointed A-Eon's "Primary Channel Distributor" for the AmigaOne X1000.

> it has a lot to prove, a helluvalot more than the Raspberry Pi

And yet you can't order a Raspberry Pi this instant and have it shipped to you today :-)

> producing some handfull of motherboards based on individual e-mail
> correspondence directly between the producer and purchaser

AFAIK, the purchasers' correspondence has been with AmigaKit, not with A-Eon.

> production counted in tens of units

Do you claim that one production batch size of Nemo boards is smaller than 100 units?

> I remember Thendic France operated like that on their very first,
> tiny batch of Pegasos 1 boards, a very long time before the first
> April patch was released [...]. [...] as products they were
> definitely prototype class. Overall similarities with the current
> AmigaOne X1000 situation is striking.

All pre-April2 Pegasos boards are prone to data corruption. I've yet to hear that about the AmigaOne X1000 and its Nemo v2.1 board.

> the market [...] may already be saturated; those few interested
> enough has already got one

There are still people on forums claiming they want to get one with the next batch. Do you think they're lying?

> It's a none-product! Vapor, until proven differently!
> [...] At best it could be considered a prototype

I'm still not convinced, and I still think it has been proven differently.

> I have understood as much as you don't share my views of "vapor".

That's correct.

> I don't share your views of "product".

I have a feeling this might be exclusive to things connected with OS4 :-P

> I think I will be proven right in the end

Regarding what exactly?

itix,
Quote:

It depends enterily if you are talking about the nemo motherboard plus accessories, *or* the OS4 system it was set out to be. It's certainly *not* the announced SMP capable OS4 system with Xorro and Xena support, all *key features*, and since I highly doubt it will ever be, I definitely consider it as vapor.

@Andreas_Wolf

@takemehomegrandma quote:

"I don't share your views of "product".

@Andreas_Wolf quote:

"I have a feeling this might be exclusive to things connected with OS4 "

(just summarizing the only relevant bits from the last few pages) Heh.

#6