X1000
  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 484 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    If this is about 1950EUR + around 150EUR for OS license/postage + 19% (german) VAT = 2499EUR, i would call this a quite expensive dream machine, definitely way too steep for the proposed comeback.

    The one that expects that this machine has any reasonable impact on the future of the HYPErionOS platform or even attracts new users/devs besides the current fanbase, must really be a true believer.
  • »21.10.11 - 09:50
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Aramon
    Posts: 35 from 2011/4/21
    From: Germany - Hamburg
    The X1000 is to late and to expensive. I think, Amiga is a very very expensive hobby.
    Mythana das kostenlose Browser-Rollenspiel: http://www.mythana.de
  • »21.10.11 - 10:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    Still I wish trevor the best with this. Still a great achievement with little resources in a very small market. What to think about it ? Stupid, brave or ....we'll see.

    In my opinion porting OS4 to something common and cheaper instead of taking such a big risk would have been a better move. And something that had to be started at the moment it became clear that Eyetech went out of business.
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »21.10.11 - 11:08
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4965 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >USD $2682.56 (excluding AmigaOS4 license, shipping, handling and sales tax)

    For an AOS4.1 machine?
    One that probably won't have any more power then a G5?
    And one that would be severely throunced by a Windows or OSX system?

    Good luck selling those.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.10.11 - 19:31
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    I think Trevor and A-EON did a favour for MorphOS community. With 3.0 comming over there is a simple choice between PowerBook for about 400 bucks and X1000 for about 3000 bucks. To be honest - MorphOS can offer much more than AmigaOS can do at this moment. Choice is quite simple, at least for me.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »21.10.11 - 22:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    pampers,
    Quote:

    I think Trevor and A-EON did a favour for MorphOS community. With 3.0 comming over there is a simple choice between PowerBook for about 400 bucks and X1000 for about 3000 bucks. To be honest - MorphOS can offer much more than AmigaOS can do at this moment. Choice is quite simple, at least for me.


    I agree. I wish the MorphOS team could include G5 support in MorphOS 3.0, even if it was extremely limited G5 support. Some people seem to be dreaming about the X1000 running circles around a G5 system. I find this very hard to believe.
  • »22.10.11 - 01:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Ouch!

    I thought £1500 was bad, but the final price will be at least £2160. That's a *lot* of money.
    I think they're going to have a hard time selling their 250 units at that price. They might do it but I don't think they'll sell anymore.
  • »22.10.11 - 02:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I think they're going to have a hard time selling their 250 units at that price.

    Some 100 of those 250 units have already been sold to beta testers for a lower price. So only about 150 to go ;-)
  • »22.10.11 - 02:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Reply to myself:

    > why it will come with "Audio & Ethernet cards" when Nemo has
    > both audio (via SB600) and Ethernet (via PA6T) onboard?

    Interesting comment regarding onboard Ethernet:

    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=664411
  • »22.10.11 - 05:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2710 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    If this is about 1950EUR + around 150EUR for OS license/postage + 19% (german) VAT = 2499EUR, i would call this a quite expensive dream machine, definitely way too steep for the proposed comeback.


    -dream

    There is nothing "dreamy" about this at all IMHO. And that specs to that price looks rather like a "nightmare".

    Quote:

    The one that expects that this machine has any reasonable impact on the future of the HYPErionOS platform or even attracts new users/devs besides the current fanbase, must really be a true believer


    I'd say *blind*...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »22.10.11 - 06:12
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2069 from 2003/2/24
    redrumloa,
    Quote:

    I wish the MorphOS team could include G5 support in MorphOS 3.0, even if it was extremely limited G5 support


    NO NO and NO !!!

    Releasing the G5-port in it's current (assuming it is true that nothing substantial has been done on it since I saw it last time this summer) state would mean the MorphOS-team repeating HYPE's worst mistakes.

    There is no point in releasing something that can only be used by typing in cryptic commands into the OF prompt to than boot from a a specially prepared USB-drive only to be harrased by a bunch of fans running full speed all the time.

    In this state it isn't even worth considering further beta-testing...... Would I take such an ISO if offered ? Sure yes !! Would I use it beyond the sporadic novelity boot and to brag on user-meetings ? Probraly not :angel:

    If they can address those 2 issues (read power/fan managment and SATA) I'll be 1st inline for an extended betatest, but for the general public it would still be another year till it's finished enough to meet the MorphOS-teams quality-standards.
  • »22.10.11 - 08:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I would love to have G5 support, but not before it is usable and meets the high standards that the MorphOS Dev. Team is known for.

    I also don't want work on any G5 models to detract the Developers from completing work on support for the G4 PowerBooks (including wireless support), so please let them complete one project at a time and not ask for something that they are not going to do anyway (at least not until they are done working on perfecting 3.0 for PowerBooks).

    Support for G5 PowerMacs & iMacs is an unknown right now. It might never happen (but I hope it does).
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »22.10.11 - 10:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> why it will come with "Audio & Ethernet cards" when Nemo has
    >> both audio (via SB600) and Ethernet (via PA6T) onboard?

    > Interesting comment regarding onboard Ethernet:
    > http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=664411

    I just found the time to watch Trevor Dickinson's AmiWest 2011 presentation and there I heard him say:

    "There were 20 improvement changes from revision 1 to revision 2. Most of them were minor things [...] but there were a few major changes like changing the onboard Ethernet to use the PHY from PA Semi [...] and also changing the audio circuits."

    ...and it has the following on a slide:

    "Revision 2.1 design to correct several issues:-
    [...]
    Incorrect audio connector pinout
    Resistor changes to the Ethernet PHY [...]
    "
  • »26.11.11 - 17:29
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Reply to myself:

    > Anyone has an idea why it will come with only half the amount of RAM that
    > the X1000 product page claims [...]?

    Trevor Dickinson answered this one in his AmiWest 2011 presentation:

    "This is the base system. We're trying to keep the price down for you guys. We're trying to keep the price down for the minimum. [...] So we're putting in 1 GB RAM [...]. We wouldn't recommend that minimum. I'd go for 2 [...]"
  • »26.11.11 - 18:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    .....I think they're going to have a hard time selling their 250 units at that price. They might do it but I don't think they'll sell anymore.


    AmigaKit reportedly sold out (pre-sold) all of the available "First Contact" X1000's in less than one week and I think that there were supposed to be 100 in that production run.

    Even at the price they are asking for them, I think the demand is going to be greater than the supply, unless A-Eon has more PA6T CPU's than the demand and plans to do several production runs of the X1000.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »27.11.11 - 09:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > [...] unless A-Eon has more PA6T CPU's than the demand and plans to do
    > several production runs of the X1000.

    Several production runs are a given I think, else the "First Contact" systems would not only be the first but also the last ones.
  • »27.11.11 - 14:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Several production runs are a given I think, else the "First Contact" systems would not only be the first but also the last ones.


    That could be a possibility if A-Eon and Varisys have a better design to move on to that is more cost effective and practical.

    Although the demand for the X1000 seems to be greater than the planned first production run, that does not guarantee that a second production run will take place. I hope that everyone who wants to purchase an X1000 gets the opportunity to buy one, but only Trevor and a few of his closest advisers know exactly how many X1000's will be produced.

    If he has a better system to follow the X1000 with, they might decide to move on to that next design, instead of spending more money producing additional X1000's.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »27.11.11 - 20:17
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    amigadave,
    Quote:

    AmigaKit reportedly sold out (pre-sold) all of the available "First Contact" X1000's in less than one week and I think that there were supposed to be 100 in that production run.


    Sold out? Users on Amigaworld.net were complaining that Amigakit didn't even put it on their site yet. I find it very hard to believe, just like I find it hard to believe 100 people bought "beta tester" boards.
  • »27.11.11 - 21:22
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2069 from 2003/2/24
    I guess the real reason for the high number of production runs is quite simple:

    There was a huge prepay for those buying their boards as "betatesters".

    Same seems to be true for the current run of "earlybirds" (or whatever nonsense they use this time).
  • »27.11.11 - 21:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > That could be a possibility if A-Eon and Varisys have a better design to
    > move on to that is more cost effective and practical. [...] If he has a better
    > system to follow the X1000 with, they might decide to move on to that next
    > design, instead of spending more money producing additional X1000's.

    There are two aspects which to my mind speak against this possibility.
    First is that they purchased a certain number of PA6T chips for a certain number of boards to be produced (the latter number being slightly lower for being able to replace broken chips). If they now would decide to only produce one batch, then what do you think would they do with the remaining stock of expensive PA6T chips they already purchased?
    Second is that a follow-up board to the Nemo board would need to have a QorIQ P5 or better yet QorIQ T5 chip. The Nemo board development up to current revision 2.1 has taken Varisys about 2.5 years. If we take this as a ballpark figure for the time Varisys needs to come up with a stable board of Nemo's complexity and take into account that a board based on QorIQ P5/T5 could probably be less complex than Nemo and thus only take maybe 1.5 years to be developed by Varisys, we now only need to look at the release state of the QorIQ P5 and T5 chips. The QorIQ P5 reached early sample state no earlier than half a year ago. Even if Varisys commenced that early with development of a board based on that chip it would still be a year away. And QorIQ T5 is not even available as sample chip yet. So I doubt they would now stop producing Nemo boards after the first batch in favour of a successor that could be available in a year from now at best.

    > Although the demand for the X1000 seems to be greater than the planned first
    > production run, that does not guarantee that a second production run will take place.

    Not producing a second batch under these circumstances would be outright silly.

    > only Trevor and a few of his closest advisers know exactly how many X1000's
    > will be produced.

    It may be that even the three A-Eon directors do not *know* how many boards *will* be produced because they don't know the absolute demand. What they know for sure is the maximum number of boards they *can* produce as that is limited by the number of PA6T chips they have in possession. I'm not sure what they'll do in case demand dries out before all of their PA6T chips have found a home on a Nemo board. I guess they'd either try to resell the remaining stock of chips at a loss or put them on Nemo boards nonetheless and try to sell those at a loss in order to make more people consider to buy one.
  • »27.11.11 - 22:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Just remember that Trevor stated that he is making zero money from selling the X1000 and that he is not even getting any of his investment back from the sales of X1000 systems. There is NO incentive for Trevor to sell more X1000's, unless his statement was directed at only this first public production run and that he would be making some kind of money toward his considerable investment from a future (after the "First Contact") production run.

    Varisys has been paid for the design and probably makes a small amount on each board that they produce and AmigaKit will make a small profit on each system they assemble, but Trevor made it very clear that he is not making any money on them during the AmiWest 2011 Show.

    Edit: Red, the sign-up site was different than AmigaKit's normal store site for those people that were interested in buying one of the "First Contact" systems. I know that AmigaKit received more responses than the planned number of First Contact systems to be produced. No way to tell if every response will be followed up with money in the way of a purchase, but the demand, or interest appears to be real.

    [ Edited by amigadave 27.11.2011 - 17:25 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »28.11.11 - 02:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Sold out? Users on Amigaworld.net were complaining that Amigakit
    > didn't even put it on their site yet.

    I think what was referred to is that page which went live 5 or 6 weeks ago:

    http://www.amigakit.com/x1000/
  • »28.11.11 - 11:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Just remember that Trevor stated that he is making zero money from
    > selling the X1000 and that he is not even getting any of his investment
    > back from the sales of X1000 systems. [...] Trevor made it very clear that
    > he is not making any money on them during the AmiWest 2011 Show.

    He also said before that he was trying to break even with the X1000 and would only continue with further products if he manages to do so. So I think what he really meant to say with his statement you're referring to is that he's not going to make any profit on top of just trying to recoup the expenses the board development, purchase of the parts and board production have caused. But you're right that it can also be interpreted in a different way which would be contradictory to other statements he made on the matter.

    > There is NO incentive for Trevor to sell more X1000's

    If there wasn't he wouldn't do so, I think. He's at least trying to break even, unless he even gave up on that, in which case he could sell the X1000 for less and thus create a bigger user base than it's going to create with the current price (of course that's assuming he has more PA6T chips than there's demand for the X1000 at the current price).

    > unless his statement was directed at only this first public production run
    > and that he would be making some kind of money toward his considerable
    > investment from a future (after the "First Contact") production run.

    This may as well be, yes. So far his statements seem somewhat contradictory to me.
  • »28.11.11 - 11:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    I think what was referred to is that page which went live 5 or 6 weeks ago:

    http://www.amigakit.com/x1000/


    I saw that page. I seriously doubt that page cause 100 pre-orders for this "First Contact" just like I seriously dubt there were 100 who bought "Beta Boards". It sounds like Amigakit/A-Eon went to the Amiga Inc school of progaganda.
  • »28.11.11 - 13:37
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4965 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    http://www.amigakit.com/x1000/%3Cbr%20/%3E%3C/div%3E

    Now defaults to search page.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »28.11.11 - 14:15
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