Quote:

So nothing to do with OS X using display PDF then?
OS X's display system alone has a lot of overheads in it that simply don't exist in MorphOS.

A better comparison would be to try Haiku. I tried it on an Atom based system a couple of years back and it's quite a different story.

> I doubt the MorphOS developers will have much problem figuring it out

Quote:

IIRC the Q-Box was meant to have all the modern features years ago.

> So nothing to do with OS X using display PDF then?

I don't know. "In large part" doesn't equal "solely", you know ;-)

> OS X's display system alone has a lot of overheads in it that simply
> don't exist in MorphOS.

Okay.

> A better comparison would be to try Haiku.

I would really like to compare MorphOS and Haiku in terms of responsiveness but unfortunately Haiku doesn't run on anything I've ever run MorphOS on (although there seems to be work done on a PowerPC port of Haiku). Being run on the same hardware is a requirement for a fair OS comparison, I think.

>>> I doubt the MorphOS developers will have much problem figuring it out :-)

>> "Will", or rather "would"? ;-)

> IIRC the Q-Box was meant to have all the modern features years ago.

Yes, but I don't think that alone justifies usage of will-future tense, especially considering what MorphOS Team members have said on this matter during the last couple of years:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6287&forum=3&start=13
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6248&forum=3&start=1
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6775&forum=11&start=37

> Aeon's current "north of 1500 GBP" price estimate

Now we know how much north of that estimate the price will be:

"Prices start from: £1699, USD $2682.56 (excluding AmigaOS4 license, shipping, handling and sales tax)."
http://amigaprez.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/amigaone-x1000-to-be-at-amiwest-2011/
http://www.amigakit.com/x1000/newsrelease.pdf
http://www.a-eon.com/news.html

Seems I won the bet I had with someone on another site over the price of the X1000 with me saying that it will be more than 1800 EUR :-)

Furthermore:

"The First Contact system includes the official AmigaOne X1000 Boing Ball case in either black or white and includes the Nemo rev 2.1 motherboard complete with 1GB of DDR2 RAM, a Radeon HD4650 graphics card, 500GB HDD, DVR R/W optical drive, Audio & Ethernet cards."

Anyone has an idea why it will come with only half the amount of RAM that the X1000 product page claims, and why it will come with "Audio & Ethernet cards" when Nemo has both audio (via SB600) and Ethernet (via PA6T) onboard?

Edit: photo of Nemo board with PCI slots populated by audio and Ethernet cards (AmiWest)

Andreas_Wolf,


Quote:

Not a good sign, not good at all.

If this is about 1950EUR + around 150EUR for OS license/postage + 19% (german) VAT = 2499EUR, i would call this a quite expensive dream machine, definitely way too steep for the proposed comeback.

The one that expects that this machine has any reasonable impact on the future of the HYPErionOS platform or even attracts new users/devs besides the current fanbase, must really be a true believer.

The X1000 is to late and to expensive. I think, Amiga is a very very expensive hobby.

Still I wish trevor the best with this. Still a great achievement with little resources in a very small market. What to think about it ? Stupid, brave or ....we'll see.

In my opinion porting OS4 to something common and cheaper instead of taking such a big risk would have been a better move. And something that had to be started at the moment it became clear that Eyetech went out of business.

>USD $2682.56 (excluding AmigaOS4 license, shipping, handling and sales tax)

For an AOS4.1 machine?
One that probably won't have any more power then a G5?
And one that would be severely throunced by a Windows or OSX system?

Good luck selling those.

I think Trevor and A-EON did a favour for MorphOS community. With 3.0 comming over there is a simple choice between PowerBook for about 400 bucks and X1000 for about 3000 bucks. To be honest - MorphOS can offer much more than AmigaOS can do at this moment. Choice is quite simple, at least for me.

pampers,
Quote:

I agree. I wish the MorphOS team could include G5 support in MorphOS 3.0, even if it was extremely limited G5 support. Some people seem to be dreaming about the X1000 running circles around a G5 system. I find this very hard to believe.

Ouch!

I thought £1500 was bad, but the final price will be at least £2160. That's a *lot* of money.
I think they're going to have a hard time selling their 250 units at that price. They might do it but I don't think they'll sell anymore.

> I think they're going to have a hard time selling their 250 units at that price.

Some 100 of those 250 units have already been sold to beta testers for a lower price. So only about 150 to go ;-)

Reply to myself:

> why it will come with "Audio & Ethernet cards" when Nemo has
> both audio (via SB600) and Ethernet (via PA6T) onboard?

Interesting comment regarding onboard Ethernet:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=664411

Quote:

-dream

There is nothing "dreamy" about this at all IMHO. And that specs to that price looks rather like a "nightmare".

Quote:

I'd say *blind*...

redrumloa,
Quote:

NO NO and NO !!!

Releasing the G5-port in it's current (assuming it is true that nothing substantial has been done on it since I saw it last time this summer) state would mean the MorphOS-team repeating HYPE's worst mistakes.

There is no point in releasing something that can only be used by typing in cryptic commands into the OF prompt to than boot from a a specially prepared USB-drive only to be harrased by a bunch of fans running full speed all the time.

In this state it isn't even worth considering further beta-testing...... Would I take such an ISO if offered ? Sure yes !! Would I use it beyond the sporadic novelity boot and to brag on user-meetings ? Probraly not

If they can address those 2 issues (read power/fan managment and SATA) I'll be 1st inline for an extended betatest, but for the general public it would still be another year till it's finished enough to meet the MorphOS-teams quality-standards.

I would love to have G5 support, but not before it is usable and meets the high standards that the MorphOS Dev. Team is known for.

I also don't want work on any G5 models to detract the Developers from completing work on support for the G4 PowerBooks (including wireless support), so please let them complete one project at a time and not ask for something that they are not going to do anyway (at least not until they are done working on perfecting 3.0 for PowerBooks).

Support for G5 PowerMacs & iMacs is an unknown right now. It might never happen (but I hope it does).

Addendum:

>> why it will come with "Audio & Ethernet cards" when Nemo has
>> both audio (via SB600) and Ethernet (via PA6T) onboard?

> Interesting comment regarding onboard Ethernet:
> http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=664411

I just found the time to watch Trevor Dickinson's AmiWest 2011 presentation and there I heard him say:

"There were 20 improvement changes from revision 1 to revision 2. Most of them were minor things [...] but there were a few major changes like changing the onboard Ethernet to use the PHY from PA Semi [...] and also changing the audio circuits."

...and it has the following on a slide:

"Revision 2.1 design to correct several issues:-
[...]
Incorrect audio connector pinout
Resistor changes to the Ethernet PHY [...]"

Reply to myself:

> Anyone has an idea why it will come with only half the amount of RAM that
> the X1000 product page claims [...]?

Trevor Dickinson answered this one in his AmiWest 2011 presentation:

"This is the base system. We're trying to keep the price down for you guys. We're trying to keep the price down for the minimum. [...] So we're putting in 1 GB RAM [...]. We wouldn't recommend that minimum. I'd go for 2 [...]"

Quote:

AmigaKit reportedly sold out (pre-sold) all of the available "First Contact" X1000's in less than one week and I think that there were supposed to be 100 in that production run.

Even at the price they are asking for them, I think the demand is going to be greater than the supply, unless A-Eon has more PA6T CPU's than the demand and plans to do several production runs of the X1000.

> [...] unless A-Eon has more PA6T CPU's than the demand and plans to do
> several production runs of the X1000.

Several production runs are a given I think, else the "First Contact" systems would not only be the first but also the last ones.

Quote:

That could be a possibility if A-Eon and Varisys have a better design to move on to that is more cost effective and practical.

Although the demand for the X1000 seems to be greater than the planned first production run, that does not guarantee that a second production run will take place. I hope that everyone who wants to purchase an X1000 gets the opportunity to buy one, but only Trevor and a few of his closest advisers know exactly how many X1000's will be produced.

If he has a better system to follow the X1000 with, they might decide to move on to that next design, instead of spending more money producing additional X1000's.

amigadave,
Quote:

Sold out? Users on Amigaworld.net were complaining that Amigakit didn't even put it on their site yet. I find it very hard to believe, just like I find it hard to believe 100 people bought "beta tester" boards.

I guess the real reason for the high number of production runs is quite simple:

There was a huge prepay for those buying their boards as "betatesters".

Same seems to be true for the current run of "earlybirds" (or whatever nonsense they use this time).

> That could be a possibility if A-Eon and Varisys have a better design to
> move on to that is more cost effective and practical. [...] If he has a better
> system to follow the X1000 with, they might decide to move on to that next
> design, instead of spending more money producing additional X1000's.

There are two aspects which to my mind speak against this possibility.
First is that they purchased a certain number of PA6T chips for a certain number of boards to be produced (the latter number being slightly lower for being able to replace broken chips). If they now would decide to only produce one batch, then what do you think would they do with the remaining stock of expensive PA6T chips they already purchased?
Second is that a follow-up board to the Nemo board would need to have a QorIQ P5 or better yet QorIQ T5 chip. The Nemo board development up to current revision 2.1 has taken Varisys about 2.5 years. If we take this as a ballpark figure for the time Varisys needs to come up with a stable board of Nemo's complexity and take into account that a board based on QorIQ P5/T5 could probably be less complex than Nemo and thus only take maybe 1.5 years to be developed by Varisys, we now only need to look at the release state of the QorIQ P5 and T5 chips. The QorIQ P5 reached early sample state no earlier than half a year ago. Even if Varisys commenced that early with development of a board based on that chip it would still be a year away. And QorIQ T5 is not even available as sample chip yet. So I doubt they would now stop producing Nemo boards after the first batch in favour of a successor that could be available in a year from now at best.

> Although the demand for the X1000 seems to be greater than the planned first
> production run, that does not guarantee that a second production run will take place.

Not producing a second batch under these circumstances would be outright silly.

> only Trevor and a few of his closest advisers know exactly how many X1000's
> will be produced.

It may be that even the three A-Eon directors do not *know* how many boards *will* be produced because they don't know the absolute demand. What they know for sure is the maximum number of boards they *can* produce as that is limited by the number of PA6T chips they have in possession. I'm not sure what they'll do in case demand dries out before all of their PA6T chips have found a home on a Nemo board. I guess they'd either try to resell the remaining stock of chips at a loss or put them on Nemo boards nonetheless and try to sell those at a loss in order to make more people consider to buy one.

Just remember that Trevor stated that he is making zero money from selling the X1000 and that he is not even getting any of his investment back from the sales of X1000 systems. There is NO incentive for Trevor to sell more X1000's, unless his statement was directed at only this first public production run and that he would be making some kind of money toward his considerable investment from a future (after the "First Contact") production run.

Varisys has been paid for the design and probably makes a small amount on each board that they produce and AmigaKit will make a small profit on each system they assemble, but Trevor made it very clear that he is not making any money on them during the AmiWest 2011 Show.

Edit: Red, the sign-up site was different than AmigaKit's normal store site for those people that were interested in buying one of the "First Contact" systems. I know that AmigaKit received more responses than the planned number of First Contact systems to be produced. No way to tell if every response will be followed up with money in the way of a purchase, but the demand, or interest appears to be real.

[ Edited by amigadave 27.11.2011 - 17:25 ]