• Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

    amigadave wrote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    It's now 6 days past the "deadline" :-)

    You didn't really expect it to be done 6 days ago, did you?

    Almost all developers have deadlines for projects that are not met, at one time or another. I won't complain about this deadline being missed (specially since I don't even consider it a true deadline, but more of an informal guesstimate made "off the cuff"), and I won't expect any kind of multiple cpu support to be finished for another year or two (if ever).

    It's called "carrot dangling", and that is what has kept the interest in OS4 afloat the last decade and a half (well not quite, but almost). Many people mocked MorphOS when the effort was started, and by the time it was released on the Pegasos in version 1.0 (the "community split" had already happened by then) they laughed, pointed at missing features and poor stability, questioning its existence since OS4 would be so much better and would soon be released anyway. A year passed. Then another. MorphOS evolved and matured a lot during this time, but OS4 shepherds carefully herded the Amiga horde to stay away from MorphOS during this time, "remember that OS4 is so much better, it has this and this feature, bla bla". Hardware that essentially was the same as the Pegasos (but a lot more expensive and actually flawed) was sold for OS4, and lots of carrots were dangled. Then in 2004(!), the first pre-release of OS4 made its debut. I actually bought myself an AmigaOne XE just to see it with my own eyes. We were many back then who were simply amazed by the poor quality, stability and lack of features. After all said and done about MorphOS during the past years, it was stunning to see what OS4 really turned out to be. Where were all the features? It suddenly became clear that it had all been empty words all the time; nothing but FUD and empty promises. MorphOS was way ahead, and it has stayed that way ever since.

    But the carrot dangling has remained. Not just about SMP; other "features of grandeur" has come and gone over the years. It's always something around the corner. There is always a reason to stay OS4 faithful; things might not be here now but when they arrive, oh man, then things will be great. Like Radeon HD. Some people has been talking for years about how great OS4 is since it supports (or rather will support (or rather may support (or maybe not?))) PCI-E based GFX cards. Some people likes to point out how this is an advantage to OS4. When in reality it's nothing but plain 2D support with no 3D (not only used for games, Ambient for examples uses it, making it a very important feature for your "overall MorphOS experience") or anything similar to overlay support (making it useless or at least very crappy for playing videos, but that's not all overlay is/can be used for). And during all this time, the plain R200 cards in MorphOS machines has provided all this. No waiting, no carrot dangling. It has been there all along. I watched videos and played 3D games, while OS4 people was waiting and waitng. And actually still waits!

    In OS4 world there is always waiting. "It's not here now, but when it gets here, oh man, then things will be great, so much better than MorphOS". There is always something around the corner. Constant carrot dangling. The SMP feature has not taken two years to *not* arrive, in fact it has been on its way many years before that. Highlighting the Hermans comment from two years ago linked to in a post above, is merely a "call the bluff". The feature had been "coming" for some time (years) and Mr. Hermans said with at least some degree of certainty that he bet it wouldn't take two more years before it gets here.

    And it's important to call out these bluffs when you see them and you see them slide away yet again, because those kinds of "features of grandeur" always have a constant sliding deadline, and when deadline slides it seems to do it in silince. No-one notices it. OS4 people doesn't seem willing to talk about it, they look at the dangling carrot, hopes for the best, wait for the great OS4 features to arrive some day while not going anywhere near MorphOS in the mean time, since that OS won't have these "Features of Grandeur".

    So it's important to call out all the bluffs and bullshit on sight. And this Hermans quote about the two year time frame to reach full SMP in OS4 is exactly that; bullshit with a constantly sliding deadline. But it's so easy to stomp this one to the ground, and call the bluff, since SMP simply can't exist in an Amiga environment with preserved Amiga binary compatibility. It can't be done! It was a lie when it stared, it has been a lie when the sold HW/OS products using the lie as a sales argument, it was a lie when Hermans claimed it could be here within (additional from time already passed) two years. Well, that time has passed, nothing is here. And any sliding deadlines from this point, is also lies. Simply because it can't be done, it's all bulshit. But has been great carrot dangling for a couple of years, and a lie to sell hundreds of $3,000+ machines for OS4 that "will have" this feature (which is bullshit since it can't be done).

    FUD, promises, lies, carrot dangling and a lot of waiting. OS4!


    My expectations are actually leaning toward AROS on x86/x64 to surpass the current capabilities of both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS3.x within the next 2 years

    That will be really difficult given the current state (features, maturity, etc) and rate of progress for AROS compared to MorphOS. In fact, it will not happen. That doesn't mean that AROS hasn't got some things MorphOS lack. AROS can be a 64-bit OS AFAIK (easy when you won't have to retain full Amiga binary compatibility though). I also believe there are one or a few drivers for nVidia cards (don't know the state regarding 3D/overlay etc). Probably some other things as well.

    But over all, MorphOS features overshadows AROS so massively that I have seriously difficulties to see how your expectations can come real.


    (and I am still hoping that the MorphOS Dev. Team will choose to join the AROS developers, instead of duplicating the effort on two different operating systems).

    Not going to happen. But just for fun - Why not the other way around? MorphOS is by far the better OS, which it still will be even if you remove the up till now mandatory Amiga binary compatibility requirement hence putting MorphOS in the same category as AROS. Wouldn't it be more logic to focus at developing the best?


    My uneducated guess is that AROS on x86/x64 might have a better chance of incorporating some kind of multiple cpu, or multi-core support before AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS3.x

    True SMP can't be incorporated in Amiga without breaking the Amiga. But if the requirement of Amiga binary backwards compatibility would be removed from MorphOS, then AROS would have no benefit at all. Then it comes down to how many talanted coders each platform has, it comes down to discipline, management and development according to a plan (MorphOS), or fewer coders working in an anarchistic manner according to what they personally think is most fun for the moment. And if you break the backwards compatibility anyway, then why not go all the way and remake the OS itself to be multithreaded and add SMP/multithreading in the proper way? AROS (being a "research OS for fun") is merely investigating the possibility of creating some level of SMP using exec and mostly standard programs. While this is a fun and interesting little experiment, I don't think anything useful will come out of it in the end. If it succeeds all the way (which is not certain), then they will have proven a concept/hypothesis. But they won't have a SMP system that is anywhere near what SMP can be when implemented from scratch, rather a SMP hack squezed into exec using a shoehorn, force and vaseline for proving some kind of point.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »14.09.13 - 00:16