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Good points regarding why the Vampire accelerators are popular and what effect it is having on bringing the high prices for old Phase5 & DCE 68060 accelerators. But I disagree with you that the A1200 model Vampire will not have much effect on its sales. The A1200 was the most popular Amiga model AFTER the A500, and I would guess the A1200's were used longer into the 1990's, than the A500's, due to having AGA. I think that more former Amiga users might have kept their A1200's, while many of the A500's were sold, or eventually (and sadly) put in some trash bin. I don't live in Europe where the A1200 enjoyed its greatest popularity, so I don't really know how many people kept their A1200's and set them up every so often to play old Amiga games for nostalgic reasons, but it seems to me that every set of pictures from Amiga gatherings held anywhere in Europe, always showed mostly A1200 desktop, or tower conversions, being used. There also seem to be many forum posters who write that they are waiting for the Vampire A1200 model to be designed and produced, before they will buy any Vampire accelerator.

I do agree with you that the Vampire project has given the Amiga 68k community a boost, as well as AROS for 68k. As others have stated, any new software written for Amiga 68k will probably also run on MorphOS3.9 and AmigaOS4.1FE, either natively with their translation layers, or under emulation, if the new software needs the Amiga custom chips. So, in at least a small way, the Vampire project appears to give a small boost to all parts of the Amiga community, and that in itself is a feat that not many other projects can claim to have done.

@soviet,

The only person that the Vampire project seems to have "pissed off", is ppcamiga1. There are 1 or 2 others who complain about missing MMU, or FPU (now at least partially implemented), but I think those are forum posters who would complain about anything, just so they can have something to write about.

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That American freedom to be screwed over by corporations is really appealing! ;)

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Is there any great difference between here and Great Britain (except you DO get healthcare)?

I'm just surprised that re-seller have to offer an additional warranty period in Germany.
That rather dumps the responsibility on the sellers rather than the manufacturers.

And one year, two years, eh...it will just break right outside the two years mark, because everything is disposable crap anymore.

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I assume that's what it tries to avoid.
Manufacturers are supposed to produce something that sustains more than 2 years.
Is that really so hard?
I'm a big fan of sustainability.


Manfred

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For what I gathered from other forums the market is growing because of people returning to the Amiga. People who had one in the late 80ies, early 90ies and sold it. As I said an A1200 does not make much sense when they can have AGA via the Vampire (if they do know what AGA is when they left the scene before that time). Users who kept their A1200 all the time, or bought one before the Retro-Boom (like myself) are the ones who already pimped it up through the years. Only the most enthusiastic will trash their accelerators, now as the resale-value went down, and put a Vampire A1200. But of course my assumptions may be wrong. Time will tell.

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Yes, that's pretty nice. All recent SDL-ports which started on the Vampire, and need optimization for that hardware, have no speed problems at all on MorphOS machines.

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Checking web archive, checking web archive, still checking web archive. Checked. It still works.
Version of natami site from 2008 available.

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x86. Dear Dave You want to change API to not compatible with old apps, and still no memory protection and unix compatibility?
Your brain has malfunction. You need to visit specialist.

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Checking, checking, search function on morph.zone available. Thats all about progress on hombre in Commodore.

Good old HP PA-RISC 7100 is good old HP PA-RISC 7100. It was not exclusive to C=.
Get used HP hardware with PA-RISC 7100 and do some test on You own.

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JIT for uae was available in year 2000. Check some Amiga sites You easily get news about that.
After that dear Dave buy Pentium 233 MHz and do tests.
I know it is hard to You to accept that amiga community has cheap and compatible x86 solution better than crappy AROS, since year 2000, but dear Dave if You have problem with reality it is Your problem not reality.

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Use web archive, then google, then search on amigaworld. Key words are G4 200 600 MHz.

"It's a really big disappointment"

"Natami/apollo/vampire is bigest scam in entire amiga history"

It is scam of course. Natami/apollo/vampire is far away from what was announced 10 years ago.

> You want to change API [...], and still no memory protection [...]?

You are misinformed. MorphOS on x86-64 is supposed to have memory protection.

>> Show me what was announced in 2008, and how it could be 100 times faster
>> than what the Vampire can do today.

> Key words are G4 200 600 MHz.

You mean Vampire is slower than a 6 MHz G4?

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Sadly we are becoming more and more like the USA. Free healthcare will be gone soon enough if these terrorist funding bastards that currently rule over us get their way.

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It's not a German thing it's a European thing. We all get two year warranty on electrical goods. American companies here always tell us we get one year though, Apple are the worst for trying to get out of it.

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I would say that there is a great deal of differences between protection of the consumer in the UK and European Union, than there is in the USA (and it is only going to get worse with our current president). I do agree with you that it is unfair that the seller must provide an additional warranty that is double that provided by the manufacturer, when the seller has no control over quality control, or design of the products. That part seems weird to me, but I agree with my whole heart that electrical devices, as well as everything else should carry longer warranties by the manufacturers, so we stop being such a wasteful society. Wouldn't it be great if manufacturers were actually required to design and manufacture goods that had to last at least 5 to 10 years, and things like cars & trucks that were required to last 15 to 25 years, without the owner having to spend thousands in repair costs, and replacing them after about 5 to 7 years, which is probably the average in the USA anyway.

The UK and other European countries have had organized governments for longer periods of time, so they have gone through their own revolutions from time to time. The revolution in the USA is yet to happen, but with Trump in office, it may hasten our revolutions arrival by a few decades. The common folk will only take so much oppression for so long, before they decide to change the way things are done at the top.

I really think that most European countries (specially Western European) are more successful in respecting human rights and quality of life for the common person, than just about anywhere else on the planet. New Zealand and Australia are probably the same as well. It's time the rest of the world took notice and followed their example.

The problems of thousands of immigrants flocking from oppressed regions of the world into countries that respect humanity should be resolved by making the areas these people are fleeing from more like the areas the people are fleeing to, instead of trying to fit all these people into the already established societies with different customs and social norms. That is a discussion for some other forum thread, not this one about Vampire sales and success.

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I couldn't say that.
When you buy at Apple they are bound to those two years as well. And I had no problem yet with Apple not replacing or fixing something.

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I agree to a part. On the other hand, if the products are not of a quality which last two years (or hopefully more), then the re-seller can put pressure on the manufacturer by removing the product from sale, or by saying he would if it doesn't improve.


Manfred

[ Edited by asrael22 06.07.2017 - 08:50 ]

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In 2009 my elderly mother in law took her MBP with the known faulty nvidia 8600MGT chip to the Apple store for repair. It was 13 months old. They charged her 350+VAT to replace the logic board stating that "Apple policy is 12 months warranty, it doesn't matter what the EU says".

She's old and just paid it. When mine started showing the same fault I threatened them with lawyers and got it replaced for free eventually but not before a huge stand up row with the 12yr old store manager.

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Hmm, that's unfortunate.
I had the same MBP and Apple replaced the logic board without cost after more than 2 years.
I'd probably say it may depend on the people in the store and how the management operates there.
I wouldn't necessarily put that on Apple.


Manfred

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you get 2 years of warranty for electronic goods in germany?

That is new to me :)

I only know that in certain cases you can get 2 years by paying more. Normal is one year as far as I know

[ Editiert durch OlafSch 06.07.2017 - 09:54 ]

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As has been said, not only in Germany. 2 years of warranty for electronic good in whole EU.
That's the standard here.


Manfred

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could it be that you mix two different things?

http://www.finanztip.de/garantie-gewaehrleistung/

as I understand it 2 years to repair things that were wrong from beginning when you bought it

but if product was ok and problem arises only one year

Can we move the 1 year, 2 year warranty discussion to a different thread? It has already been established that the producers of the Vampire boards don't provide such warranties. I don't expect such hobby projects to come with any warranty, but now that they are selling so many boards, it would be a good idea for the persons responsible for their production to honor warranty replacements, if the board is assembled incorrectly.

>> 2 years of warranty for electronic good in whole EU.

> http://www.finanztip.de/garantie-gewaehrleistung/
> as I understand it 2 years to repair things that were wrong from beginning
> when you bought it but if product was ok and problem arises only one year

As the explanation you linked to says, it's 2 years of seller's warranty, where after 6 months the burden of proof passes over from the seller to the buyer. There's nothing that happens after one year.

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Well, I would expect them to follow the law of the land whether they are a hobby project or not. Under EU rules you always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order. There is no opt-out from this requirement for small-scale producers. In fact, the right holds even for second-hand goods purchased from a trader (not a private person). I agree that this discussion is off-topic though.

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When buyers self-import goods from non-member states, different rules apply though. If ordered directly, the Vampire cards are produced and shipped from Northern America to buyers in Europe and elsewhere.

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I actually think it is fairly on-topic. There is at least one retailer that is both based in the EU and selling Vampire cards. Any buyer ordering from this retailer would be entitled to the usual warranty regardless of what the manufacturer may say about the matter.

For any users interested in Vampire cards as well as extended warranty times, this should be extremely useful information to be aware of.

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Bosnia i Herzegovina isn't part of the EU (and never will be because the EU is a Christian Club(TM)), and certainly not Republika Srpska region of BiH where the Vampire is produced.

Though if one was to purchase it from Amigakit in Wales you would be covered by the EU regulations at least until the UK leaves the EU within the next couple of years.

[ Edited by Intuition 06.07.2017 - 18:32 ]

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I thought Kipper2K had quit making them so all Vampire's come from Igor in BiH now?



[ Edited by Intuition 06.07.2017 - 18:34 ]

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I stand corrected but the point remains since the source is still a non-member state.

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The UK warranty regulations are actually more generous than the base EU directive so unless those will be changed your purchases should be covered even after the UK stops being a member state.

What about WEEE and CE? I mean if e.g. Amigakit sells them outside the EU they need to have a WEEE certificate for each EU country/region they sell to (if the producer doesn't supply a WEEE registration for the according countries). If e.g. they sell a Vampireboard to a German customer and it doesnt come with a WEEE DExxxxxxxx but a UKxxxxxxxx number it violates EU rights and must not get sold. I am myself in the vice versa situation (I have (well, *had*) a few UK customers and currently cannot supply them legally with goods). It's not only expensive moneywise, but also pretty expensive in time/work to do all these registrations. Good for Amigakit: in the UK they don't have the German Abmahnsystem.
As much as I like the EU the bureaucracy is hillarious!

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Sounds like it.
So there is a lack of cross border certification impeding goods sales?
And selling this hobbyist produced board is likely to produce issues throughout much of Europe?

We have too many layers of bureaucracy, world wide. I can sell a push for a standard one year warranty on electronic goods, but this regional issue is a bit much, and the EU concept of dumping warranty responsibilities on the resellers...its anti business.