Personally, I see phones as a more likely replacement then tablets.

Tablets are only slightly smaller the netbooks, while phones fit in your pocket.

At one time I failed to acknowledge the possibility that a phone could replace a computer, but when you can display 1080P video on your television (from a phone) that viewpoint becomes dated.

redrumloa,
Quote:


As I also have an AMD Phenom II based system, I'd have to say I can understand the argument for an X86 port.
X86 is priced right and performance is great.
But, it would be hard to support all the variations of hardware in that market.

[ Edited by Jim 04.02.2012 - 17:54 ]

Jim,
Quote:
Jim,

MorphOS Team could choice a couple of motherboard brands and chipset models and support just them. In this way who wants to use MoirphOS knows that he must use that motherboard brand and model, it's easy. It would be like we already do with powermacs or GFX boards. The limitations would be the same we already have: to use MOS you should have "specific" hardware and maybe when a piece of hardware get mos support probably it has become old, but surely this gap in performance and price will be much less than how it is today!

Personally I don't think that use intel Macs for MOS to x86 migration would be a good idea. We would take another expensive road..


[ Edited by Miky060 04.02.2012 - 19:16 ]

Miky060,
Quote:
While I a m not a big fan of Apple myself and wonder how long Apple will stay in the PC business (hello Itix ), I think the reasons for probably chosing Apple on the x86 side are pretty valid ones. Apple computers have a comparable slow product cycle, their cofigurations stay for a while. Also the average Apple users don't seem to me as if they were swapping the internal compounds of their computers at their gusto, but keep their hardware rather untouched. Plus Apple computers are easy to spot and identify. Look on ebay for a certain Apple computer from a few years ago and for a certain Dell/Fujitsu/Packard Bell/#? from a few years ago and tell me which one is easier (not cheaper) to obtain.

But with Apple, we lose one of the key advantages (of X86), really good prices.

I don't even use much Apple hardware in my Powermac.

My memory, hard drive, DVD drive, video card, sound card, USB card, and even my processor are all third party products.

If I'm going to hack it, G5s are cheaper then newer X86 based Macs.

[ Edited by Jim 04.02.2012 - 18:41 ]

I don't want to search for "Dell/Fujitsu/Packard Bell/#?" assembled computers. We would just need to know which motherboard model is supported (togheter with the cpu these 2 components "make" the computer) by MorphOS and assemble it by our own, choicing other supported hardware like Radeon boards, SB board etc..
A x86 desktop computer is not a machine that you buy prebuild, you just buy the shitty components and assemble it buy yourself.

I don't want an expensive all-in-one Intel Mac! Even because in the Intel age Apple seem to have forgotten how to produce a tower case computer where you can choice wich monitor to connect to it!

For notebooks it's different and maybe the possibility to choice a "big" brand like Apple is understandable.

[ Edited by Miky060 04.02.2012 - 20:56 ]

Jim:

Do you have a better option for the future? All alternatives are rather suboptimum.

G5 - old and dead end
x86 Apple - relatively expensive
random x86 - driver hell
custom hardware - cough, seriously?? (but generally I like it )
ARM - mid class performance, mostly available in tablets and phones, probably no endianness advantage over x86 anyay

Resumeé: We're doomed But we are doomed since ages, so nothing to really worry about...

@itix

Actually your example is 100% wrong ....

Last time I was in a paper-factory I was more than happy (and dripping in sweat) when I could leave the production hall after less than 1 hour. Here you really really want to have your controls in a sepearate room. You also want big screens to (easier) keep track of all your data.

Tablets/Laptops might be a good idea for the manager wanting to keep track of production numbers or the mechanic checking/repairing one smaller machine of the factory but are a nogo for those you have to keep both eyes on the whole thing.

Desktop will also stay pretty dominant for most creative work (sure photoshop runs on laptops,but runs better on a desktop) and the usual office stuff (laptops simple aren't ergonomic when typing 8h/day).

In the private sector where people these days mostly seem the visit facebook&youtube desktop is allready pretty much dead.

@Miky060

a) you have to search for Dell&Co if you want a laptop

b) new ATX-mobos come out on a biweekly basis even if you stick with just one brand

c) good luck in finding such a mobo new when MorphOS-support is actually done (atleast 6 month after initial release of that mobo)

d) even more good luck in finding that exact mobo 2nd hand with all those confusing model-numbers (which might not even be enough to identify the exact model)

All unlaid eggs, but IMO unless they find a way to support a wide range of HW shortly after the release of that HW !without" falling into the AROS-driver-hell, 1-2 year old Apple PCs don't sound so bad.

@Kronos

Plus, there's always the hackintosh option too - if it works for MacOS, chances are good that it'd work for MorphOS (ie OEM products with the same chipset, etc). One added benefit: there's already a community out there speccing these up for us!

My hope for future ports of MorphOS are that they finish the G4 PowerBook port soon and then complete the support of the last and fastest Mac PPC computers by doing the G5 port.

After that is done, I hope the MorphOS Dev. Team merges with AROS completely and moves us to x86 & ARM with a free version of MorphOS as a branch of the AROS project.

I have no idea how much longer MorphOS3.0 will take to give us PowerBook support, or how long after that it would take to support a few of the G5 computers, but I am hoping that support for the G5 will actually take less time than the PowerBook support did, as we can use some already supported components from G4 PowerMac's in the G5 PowerMac, until support of the onboard components of the G5 systems is completed. Sort of like how Hyperion has released the First Contact X1000's with already supported sound and Ethernet cards, while they finish the work to support the onboard sound and Ethernet components.

Merging with AROS to move to x86 & ARM just seems to be a natural progression to me.

I forget that nowadays when people speak about "computers" they assume that they are speaking about notebooks.. Maybe I am the only one that when say the word "computer" figures a tower under his desk..

..and I badly do not want an iMac or other Apple all-in-one box on my desk! Maybe it's a good solution for most people, but personally for desktop computing I prefer a classic tower case where I can put hands to upgrade or add components.


[ Edited by Miky060 04.02.2012 - 21:24 ]

Actually Miky,
Since my last post, I've torn my computer apart.
Took my Phenom II processor out and replaced it with a Sempron (which I've unlocked for two cores and overclocked).
Removed my HD4870 video card, replaced it with an HD3470 (which
I've set up to run in Hybrid Crossfire).
Re-installed the whole system in a half height HTPC case.
Added a 3.5' floppy with built in card readers and a new SATA DVD writer.

Towers are cool for power systems, but compact systems save space and look pretty cool next to the rest of your audio/video home entertainment gear.

Laptops are neat to carry around, but nothing is replacing an standard computer any time soon.

@ Zylesea,
The G5 route would take the least work for the developers.
Many of the current drivers (video cards, USB, etc) would work on those systems unchanged (I can take my Radeon 9800XT out of my G4 and install it directly in a G5).
G5s would also be compatible with our current software.

The move to ARM or X86 will take a really long time (if it happens).
G5 support would offer us better hardware for the interim.

@Milky060

can you explain me why the parts used to build X86 PC machines are shitty ?

lors of them are used in classic and NG systems (graphic cards, ram, hard drive, HD controlers, USB cards, network cards etc...)

amigadave,
Quote:

MorphOS merging with AROS would be a dream. Probably never happen

Jim,
Quote:
Well, I know. And to be honest I don't know whether a g5 port would make sense or not. I currently come to the conclusion that it rather doesn't. It's only a delay of the unevitable.
A switch must come if MorphOS should have a future (of course a renaissance of the PPC could change that, but unfortunately that is unlikely to happen during the next few years). The G4 machines are already providing us a cheap and quite powerful hardware basis, the laptop will be the icing on top of that. Once the Powerbook version is out it will be the best timing to start the long period of working on the big cut.

In an ideal world I would of course also like to see G5 support, too. A G5 port is tempting, since these are nice machines of course and offer a pretty good price/performance ratio and half the work is done already with the recent PowerMac ports. But development resources are limited. Eventually the only ones who can judge wether the work to do the G5 port is reasonable is the MorphOS team.

Well, David already has at least one.
I've toyed with buying one.
And, obviously, at least one of he developers has had one or two.

They are cheap and they're the last (and most powerful) PPC systems marketed to the general consumer.

I can't see why it wouldn't make sense to make the G5 the last MorphOS PPC port.

BTW - Why defend the X1000 on Amiga.org and not support a more powerful machine for our community here?

You're not being consistent, Zylesea.

[ Edited by Jim 05.02.2012 - 00:36 ]

The G5 Mac's will make really kicka$$ MorphOS systems, if they decide to do the port (which I hope they will). If they decide to do some kind of AMP for MorphOS later, the dual and quad core G5's will probably be even more impressive. Since the G5 is 64bit, it might give the developers an opportunity to start thinking about and playing with 64bit enhancements to more parts of the OS and some applications, before any switch to a different platform. Mostly, it gives the Dev. Team more time to make the switch from PPC to a different platform. That way we will have a more advanced and faster PPC during the time it takes to complete such a huge task as switching to x86 and/or ARM.

Maybe by the time G5 support is finished and the team is ready to start working on a different platform, enough progress will be made on AROS that will make it more attractive for them to merge with AROS, or become a separate branch of AROS on x86 & ARM.

I don't know how much of the AROS code the MorphOS Dev. Team can use for a future version of MorphOS for x86, or ARM, without the Open Source licensing requirements becoming a problem for them to remain closed source and commercial. I also don't know how important it is for the MorphOS Dev. Team to remain closed source and commercial. Maybe they aren't that stuck on the idea of staying commercial and closed source in the future, since they are not really in this for the money anyway. I mean it is not like they are trying to make MorphOS into a high income company, or it does not seem that way to me. If it some how happened, I am sure they would all be happy to quit their regular jobs and work on MorphOS full time for a good salary, but how likely is that to happen?

[ Edited by amigadave 04.02.2012 - 23:17 ]

SoundSquare,
Quote:

I did probably not use the best word, but what I intended to say it's that normal x86 components are very common and cheap stuff that you can find everywhere, probably also in the supermarket near your house..
In the past for our hobby (I assume you are and old Amiga user too) we have always had to use exotic, expensive and rare hardware and also in more recent "Pegasos->Mac PPC age" we have had to do hard researches to find the correct and supported hardware, so if MorphOS will arrive on x86, I really can't see big difficulties in finding a specific x86 Motherboard hypothetically supported by MorphOS. It's x86 stuff, maybe we will find one near every dumpster of our Cities and we'll have it even free!

TRANSLATION= if/when a new specific x86 motherboard model will be supported by MorphOS it will be no more available as new in shops, it would be not so hard to do a Google research and find and used one, probably near your house at the half of the half of the half of the price it had by new (probably already low..)

[ Edited by Miky060 05.02.2012 - 10:00 ]

My PowerMac that cost me $30 ($225 to date with MorphOS reg, Radeon 8500 etc) is a whopping 18 seconds faster than a "Amigaone X500" Sam460EX system that costs about $1,400??? Yowsa!!!

Even my 500 MHz PowerMac from 2001 is faster...

I'm with you on that one.

My Quicksilver Powermac cost me $15 and all I had to do was re-seat the processor board.

Upgrading to a 933MHz processor cost me another $15.

I already had PC133 memory, DVD drives and hard drives on hand.

My SB Live and my NEC USB 2.0 card cost me $5 each.

My Radeon 9800XT was $25 (I re-flashed a PC card).

My only really expensive purchase was an OWC 1.47GHz 7455 processor (which I could have avoided by buying an MDD instead of a Quicksilver).

Yes, MorphOS hardware is cheap.

MPlayer benchmark result:


Ram Disk:> Work:MPlayer/MPlayer -benchmark -nosound -ao null -vo null -lavdopts skiploopfilter=none "Ram Disk:Prometheus - Trailer.mp4"
MPlayer SVN-r34310-4.4.4 (C) 2000-2011 MPlayer Team
175 audio & 377 video codecs

Playing Ram Disk:Prometheus - Trailer.mp4.
libavformat file format detected.
[h264 @ 0x23c54670]Warning: not compiled with thread support, using thread emulation
[aac @ 0x23c54670]Warning: not compiled with thread support, using thread emulation
[lavf] stream 0: video (h264), -vid 0
[lavf] stream 1: audio (aac), -aid 0, -alang eng
VIDEO: [H264] 1920x816 24bpp 0.083 fps 6828.3 kbps (833.5 kbyte/s)
Clip info:
major_brand: mp42
minor_version: 0
compatible_brands: mp42isomavc1
creation_time: 2011-12-23 08:24:51
genre: Trailer
artist: 20th Fox
title: Prometheus - Trailer
encoder: HandBrake 4344svn 2011111001
date: 2012
Load subtitles in Ram Disk:
==========================================================================
Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family
[h264 @ 0x23c54670]Warning: not compiled with thread support, using thread emulation
Selected video codec: [ffh264] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg H.264)
==========================================================================
Audio: no sound
Starting playback...
Unsupported PixelFormat 61
Unsupported PixelFormat 53
Unsupported PixelFormat 86
Movie-Aspect is 2.35:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
VO: [null] 1920x816 => 1920x816 Planar YV12


BENCHMARKs: VC: 86.714s VO: 0.012s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.755s = 87.482s
BENCHMARK%: VC: 99.1225% VO: 0.0140% A: 0.0000% Sys: 0.8636% = 100.0000%

Exiting... (End of file)
Ram Disk:> Work:MPlayer/MPlayer -benchmark -nosound -ao null -vo null -lavdopts skiploopfilter=all "Ram Disk:Prometheus - Trailer.mp4"
MPlayer SVN-r34310-4.4.4 (C) 2000-2011 MPlayer Team
175 audio & 377 video codecs

Mac mini 1.5GHz scores better in this benchmark. Memory performance is a factor I suppose.

A couple of comments here regarding some of the hardware discussion I have seen. #1 = screw the X1000 and whatever runs on it.

That said, from a MOS standpoint things are actually real good. After years of hardware starvation we have all of these cheap macs to run things on. Some of which still run quite well. Besides this, MOS itself is really good. The point here is that the MOS developers have made some very shrewd and very good decisions regarding the platform in general (hardware + software). Porting to Mac has to be near the top of that list. A well played game is evident, just look at the last few years of history. With the hardware pressure gone (and all of its politics), great things have been happening.

So regarding any future hardware, it is simply a matter of trusting these MOS developer guys. They are not about to do something sucky. If one wants that then there are other places to go. Things will come to a point quickly with the release of MOS3. Plenty of good fundamental enhancements there and of course the PowerBook. Can it get any better? I mean who gives a **** about an X1000 when one could have a better OS and on a good performing laptop? MOS is an OS for the common folk and developer alike. Well done I say.

The future will be just fine too. Most development has been on 1/2 of the equation. I have no doubt that the MOS developers will start working the other 1/2 at some point. Whatever they do will be good I'm sure whatever hardware platform changes are involved. The last thing they will do is create a mess or problems for us little guys regarding hardware. Right now the approach is great; here is a detailed list of what is fully supported now go out and have a good time. I do not expect this to change and look forward to this OS getting better and better.

@ Rodomoc

Thank you.
I too feel that we should just sit back and wait.
The last two years have been pretty damn good, all promises kept, everything working really well.
Obviously several guys all working cooperatively beats two guys working in secret.