As mentioned in the other thread, I've contacted Woody about FinalWriter again after ten years and to my surprise he did indeed reply.

I've sent Fraggle a PM with his e-mail address and what he told me. While I highly doubt that even Fraggle could put up enough money for Woody to sell, maybe a platform independent (i.e. AmigaOS, OS4, MorphOS, AROS) bounty project, kickstarted by Fraggle, could reach enough money?

To sum up what he told me:

[list]- He still owns the source code, Tommy Hwang had only distribution rights for a limited number of finished products.

- He would be willing to sell the source rights; but no one in all these years has mentioned money sufficient enough for him to take the offer seriously.

- One has to understand, though, that there was technology licensed by him for the speller, thesaurus, etc. which he can't re-license. Any modules of Final Writer that contain licensed code would need to be re-written or licensed from the licensees.

- He does also own the source code to the old ProWrite word processor.

- As for making modifications to the code for a new buyer, the option is open; but it would probably be more cost effective for a new buyer to outsource that himself rather than paying Softwood to do so.

- He also owns the source to Final Data.

- Final Calc, though, was written by Khalid Aldoseri, so he owns the rights to that source.[/list]

The source code is worth zero now lying on his compact disc and it's worth wont be increasing that way either.

Also, unfortunately there are several points why its not worth more than few hundreds tops.. dated software needing updating, some parts needs to be rewritten completely, there are free alternatives available etc. etc.

Sorry for my negativity but one just can't ask too much from -88 Corolla, and the same is the case here.

This could be a good piece of news and a bad one at the same time. Since Fraggie had done a great move for MorphOS donating 2000 euros for R300 project (not existing words to thank you man!), let's cross our fingers til he will receive an answer and let's help him. I agree with you Senex and if something should go wrong the bounty could be used for another project(s).

Well, for me already the minor tweak making it running 100.0% on MorphOS would be sufficient, but indeed my requirements are low.

Cool!

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That seems perhaps the most realistic?


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Though he surely must realize that as time goes by, the value of the technology shrinks, and potential buyers gets fewer. At least I hope he has realistic expectations of what he might get for it today.

I agree, dude man should settle for less.

FInal Writie is my favorite Word Processing app though, so I would love to see it go open source of course!

So what is he looking for, in terms of money ?

I have to agree with Hooligan. I won't put any money for a bounty to get an obsolete code which probably would need a lot of work to get it quite up to date. I would prefer to support Scriba.

After being in communication with the Cinnnamon writer author I am convinced he`s the man to support. I will not pay a fortune for ancient code - I don`t think the FW97 source is worth more than 1000 euro these days.

The money is best reserved to support more important stuff and I`ll not be chasing around wasting silly money on the FinalWriter code, no way.

edit: That I`d rather give the 1000 euro to Claus for Cinnamon writer is what I`m saying - he is a man of integrity.

[ Edited by Fraggle 03.10.2012 - 22:46 ]

Well, back then I extensively used FW and of course I would like to see such a professional word processor running natively on Morph.

Not being a programmer I don´t know how much work it would be to change the GUI to MUI, to implement some up to date import/export modules and "modern" functionality compared to a complete rewrite of a word processing / office application, like currently under way with Scriba.

In fact, the basic requirements of such an application haven´t changed much over the years to be honest.

So, maybe it would make sense to taking FWs framework and brushing it up?

Since we cannot count anymore on Papyrus, maybe an updated Final Office suite could be a a professional alternative?

By the way, there were a lot of excellent classic Amiga apps which would suit our system well in a current and native version.

For example I regard Art Department Professional one of the most thrilling graphix processor. The modular design was well ahead of time...

Or SoundFX...

Maybe it´s worth investigating more about the fate of such apps and check on the possibility of purchasing code, porting and updating.

@pampers

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Well indeed Final Writer isn't really comparable to what people would expect today. Still I'd like to say that my interest depends of the cost! It can surely be a useful thing, for what it is, and perhaps even a ground for improvement (which probably will take an overwhelming amount of work that isn't perhaps very realistic today anyway).

But if the price is right for the sources and a quick port, take it for what it is, then why not?

But of course if we are talking about ridiculous sums like for the "Dopus Magellan II", then I can't see how it could happen, or at least it can't be much more than that IMHO...

Senex,
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One important question is, what is it written in? I assume it's (mostly) C. Íf not, I'd say it's worth much less... Not that it was worth much to begin with.

But if the price isn't too much, why not?

Final Writer is very nice, but it already runs on MOS just fine. The biggest draw would be if it was possible to add things like .doc and .odt import. That being said, I tend to agree with fraggle. Unless the guy wants a very modest amount for the code, putting the effort behind Cinnamon might serve the platform better.

Even though Final Writer was my favorite Amiga word processor many years ago, and I bought every version and probably every product that SoftWood distributed, including Final Data and Final Calc and all of the word processors starting with Final Copy, Final Copy2 and then all of the versions of Final Writer from beginning to end and even the Windows version of Final Writer, I agree that it is probably not the best choice to port to MorphOS3.1. Cinnamon Writer is probably a much better choice, even though I have not taken a real close look at it's current capabilities.

Final Writer might be useful to write some documents by using the 68k version on MorphOS3.1, but we need something more advanced if anyone is going to spend money on a port to MorphOS3.1, or write a word processor from scratch.

To get a really top quality, modern word processor for MorphOS3.1, I think it is going to take more than one programmer working on a project, but I would be happy if proved wrong. It seems to me that we would have a better chance if several programmers worked together on porting a good Open Source Linux word processor to MorphOS3.1, instead of having 3 or 4 programmers working by themselves for years, trying to port something, or to write a new word processor from scratch.

Edit: Of all the SoftWood products that I purchased, I think Final Calc is the best quality and maybe the one I would want to see ported to a native version for MorphOS3.1, but then there were a couple of other excellent spreadsheet programs for the Amiga that might be just as good as Final Calc, or better, and might be easier to port to MorphOS3.1.

I wonder if anyone has contact information for the author of Final Calc, since it has been stated that the source code is not owned by the previous owner of SoftWood?

[ Edited by amigadave 03.10.2012 - 23:54 ]

I also purchased Softwood products, almost all of them in several versions. I also purchased Digita Wordworth (also Digita Office) in several versions and AmiWriter (H&P). To me, FW is the most ancient and crude one in look and feel and usage while it maybe has the most functions. AmiWriter is quite the opposite: modern GUI and functions but few of them. Wordworth was always in the middle between them. And there was also MAxon Word which I only know from screenshots and magazine reviews.

All of them could be a good base for a reworked word processor but at first comes the price. How much does Woody want to have? He has to name that first. It does not make sense to setup bounties with blurry goals like "let us collect muuuuuuuuuuuuuch money and then let's hope that he will give us the source". No. At first he and Softwood and Digita and Maxon and H&P or ... have to tell how much money they want to open the source. They also have to tell which programming language they used. Then they have to say which components are licensed and cannot be opened but must be replaced or reimplemented completely or re-licensed. ONLY THEN it makes sense to even think about whether one of these programs is worth collecting money for. Not beforehand. He who thinks that he can become rich the old days 15 years after selling the latest version of an ancient word processormust learn that in real world his program is worth nothing anymore because it cannot compete with Word, Open Office etc. It is his last chance to ever feel important about this ancient piece of code. His last chance to buy himself and his wife a pizza for it.

Maybe a more constructive way to approach it might be putting the product on sale at a fixed price, and run a bounty system in parallel, with both sales revenue and bounty pledges contributing towards the target price for open-sourcing.

That would allow people to get their hands on legacy software legally, give the developers some guaranteed cash, and give a reasonable gauge for whether enough people are interested.

If the target is never reached, then the 'bounty' contributors get their money back, the 'purchasers' get to keep their legally bought copies, and the IP owners get to keep the cash from the sold copies.

May depend any lingering distribution rights I suppose in some cases, but seems like a no-brainer really: win-win-win.

Why busy so many people with collecting money and probably sending it back when you do not know yet whether
a) you can buy the source at all
b) in what constitution the source is
c) how much money is asked for it
d) it is worth that amount of money
so all in all whether it makes sense to even think about it? Starting with steps 5, 4, 3, 2 before having done step 1 just busies and worries people.

I've always found FW GUI to be fresh and sophisticated. And other programs like Amiga Writer a bit unpolished or amateurish like WW. And I usually end up to use FW for word processing & printing I need...

But I don't know if there's much to gain with sources for it. It could be a big work to implement new features or support for more modern things... maybe the whole engine isn't up to it without complete rewrite? Porting current version to native MorphOS binary doesn't make much difference either... 68k version works pretty good itself. But if it could be get freeware or freewared by open sourcing with reasonable amount of money, so be it... although it sounds like it isn't going to be get with reasonable amount :/

What bounty amount would be attractive to (a group of) coder(s) in order to port Open Office? $50,000? $100,000?

Just curious.

I would be for a bounty for it. If there was a realistic plan, price, and goal...

I bought mutiple versions of softwood products and still use Final Writer on MOS 3.1 with any real isues.

There is no need for a big group of developers to do this. 1 - 2 motivated and knowledgeable people for a few months would be enough for an initial port and then it's a matter of incremental improvements.

The numbers you are quoting sound too high IMHO. The problem with past efforts was that it was attempted by guys with no background and that won't work out.

Personally, I'll settle for Cinnamon Writer.
It looks like a good base to expand on.

And we can't do a port of Open Office since we don't have Java.
Also, I have no idea why everybody so focus on FinalWriter.
It obvious that the author does not have complete control of the package AND he wants an unrealistic amount for it.

You don't need java for an OO port. Anyway, I agree that a homegrown application is nicer. Question is just if it's realistic to get it up to the level people expect with the very limited resources

Nadir,
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Sorry, hasty posting.
Older versions did make use of Java.
But then, older versions also relied on X11.
I haven't cleared up whether Java is still required or not (but then, most of Java is now covered by a GNU license making it a possibility too).

Now that I've looked up the basic requirements for porting, there doesn't seem to be that many hurdles.
Just a lot of work that a few skilled programmers might manage (with time).

Still, have you looked at the current state of Cinnamon Writer?

http://desler.be/modules/wfchannel/

Still not out of beta yet, but a pretty good start.

[ Edited by Jim 05.10.2012 - 02:56 ]