Bounty for getting MorphOS Team a PS3
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Given how much some people will pay for antique Cyberstorm and Blizzard cards it was no surprise that ACube were overwhelmed with orders for Sam when they and Hyperion announced their OEM agreement for OS4.1

    I am not aware of just how many orders that was and I'm not prepared to guess based on a single factor like price. As long as there is no single product that is supported by all the Amiga operating systems users are forced to choose one over the other or to spend money on an additional system for the sake of the OS that doesn't run on their existing hardware.

    Having attempted to point out some reasons to port to Sam, I most certainly recognise the value of porting to PPC Macs. But I also wonder if some potential new MorphOS users will be turned off by having to source 2nd hand hardware despite how affordable it is.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »29.09.08 - 01:21
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1217 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    But I also wonder if some potential new MorphOS users will be turned off by having to source 2nd hand hardware despite how affordable it is.


    You tell me..

    Would you rather spend 500-600$ for a SAM, or $265 for a ready-to-go EFIKA (PicoPSU, vid card, enclosure, hd)?

    How about $300-$350 for a 1.4ghz G4 Mac Mini which whips both of those systems? I chose the EFIKA because it was cheap and works great but if MOS3 comes out for the MacMini, guess whats going on sale? Yea, the EFIKA.


    -Alex

    [ Edited by TheMagicM on 2008/9/28 19:16 ]
  • »29.09.08 - 02:15
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    If I could I'd be running MorphOS on a G4 iBook or perhaps a G5 desktop system. But I'm someone that's never used a new computer (*) - I'm quite happy to trawl Oztion (the Australian equivalent of Ebay that doesn't screw it's members around with PayPal only policies) for bargains. But that's not necessarily something everyone else will do.

    * Except for the Efika now that I think of it...

    [ Edited by ausPPC on 2008/9/29 11:38 ]
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »29.09.08 - 02:37
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Painkiller
    Posts: 128 from 2007/11/19
    From: Nokia, Funland
    Quote:


    You tell me..

    Would you rather spend 500-600$ for a SAM, or $265 for a ready-to-go EFIKA (PicoPSU, vid card, enclosure, hd)?

    How about $300-$350 for a 1.4ghz G4 Mac Mini which whips both of those systems? I chose the EFIKA because it was cheap and works great but if MOS3 comes out for the MacMini, guess whats going on sale? Yea, the EFIKA.


    -Alex



    If you already have a SAM440 for AOS 4.1 would you not atleast try out MOS 2.1, propably yes? If you already have a SAM440 for OS 4.1 would you go and buy a Mac Mini to try out MOS 2.1, probably not?
  • »29.09.08 - 10:16
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  • ZB
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    ZB
    Posts: 115 from 2008/9/29
    Hi, this my first post here. I am a MorphOS's "hystory follower" but I haven't had the chance to become an user yet...

    IMHO, a PS3 port would be too limited from the sony policy. Besides, MOS Dev Team isn't so big to give resources to the port.

    Anyway, as the mac mini port is on his way, what are the remaining parts to do to complete it ? Is there a (obviously rough) estimated time to finish it ?
    ---
    Morphing the Phoenix...
  • »29.09.08 - 11:33
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1217 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    If you already have a SAM440 for AOS 4.1 would you not atleast try out MOS 2.1, propably yes? If you already have a SAM440 for OS 4.1 would you go and buy a Mac Mini to try out MOS 2.1, probably not?



    How about reverse the situation. Lets say the SAM440 is for MorphOS and OS4 isnt ported to it....

    If you already have a SAM440 for MOS, would you not at least try out OS4.1, probably yes?

    No, I am a MorphOS user and do not care one bit about OS4 and whatever board it gets ported to.

    If you already have a SAM440 for MOS would you go and buy a Mac Mini to try out MOS 3, probably not?

    I dont know, I just screwed up and spent $600 on a underpowered/overpriced *motherboard* (not throwing in the price of the other hardware needed). So I'm pretty pissed about my original decision to buy a SAM board.


    But I see what you're saying.. OS4.x users are all open-minded and they WANT to try MorphOS. (please read the heavy use of sarcasm). Again, I'm sure the goal isnt to convert OS4 users, instead, the real users (read: new users, geeks, tech folks) to the wonderful OS called MorphOS.

    -Alex
  • »29.09.08 - 13:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:


    Painkiller wrote:
    Quote:


    You tell me..

    Would you rather spend 500-600$ for a SAM, or $265 for a ready-to-go EFIKA (PicoPSU, vid card, enclosure, hd)?

    How about $300-$350 for a 1.4ghz G4 Mac Mini which whips both of those systems? I chose the EFIKA because it was cheap and works great but if MOS3 comes out for the MacMini, guess whats going on sale? Yea, the EFIKA.


    -Alex



    If you already have a SAM440 for AOS 4.1 would you not atleast try out MOS 2.1, propably yes? If you already have a SAM440 for OS 4.1 would you go and buy a Mac Mini to try out MOS 2.1, probably not?


    Using that logic, would you want to do a port for a board that will sell a few hundred at best and try to convert AOS4.x users that mostly hate MOS, or would it be better to port to a computer that has sold thousands, if not tens of thousands and those users have no negative attitudes toward MOS. Maybe 10% of 200-300 users, or 2% of 9,000-40,000 users. The math is pretty simple, even if my guesses are way off, the idea is still sound.

    Porting to PPC Macs makes sense, porting to the SAM does not. :-P
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »29.09.08 - 20:55
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Well! I'm converted - sign me up for regular KoolAid injections and just give me a nudge to remind me to snarl at OS4 people if I forget.

    So... Where can I buy a new PPC Mac?

    Aaand where can I buy a new Sam?
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »30.09.08 - 00:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I have nothing against AmigaOS4.x, or the users that prefer it, but I have seen the reverse of many many more AOS4.x users, or fans that are hostile toward anything to do with MorphOS at a ratio of about 25:1.

    I looked closely at the SAM when AmigaOS4.1 was announced for it, with the initial thought of "what have I just done, spending my money on the EFIKA and registering MOS2.1?", but then saw the cost and weighed the differences and figured that even without having just bought an EFIKA, I probably would not have bought the SAM/AOS4.1 combo. But, then again, I might have if I had more money and there was no hope for either AOS4.x, or MOS3.x on a PPC Mac.

    So, no need to get so sarcastic. You have your opinion for various reasons and I have mine, for my reasons. I am not trying to convert you, just making an argument for my reasoning, as you have made your arguments for your reasons.

    I would have both possible paths continue, as competition is healthy to promote growth.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »30.09.08 - 04:29
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1217 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Well! I'm converted - sign me up for regular KoolAid injections and just give me a nudge to remind me to snarl at OS4 people if I forget.



    I'd say you're in the minority being that you're an OS4 user and are actually open-minded. But hey, I guess I'm a hypocrite because I wouldnt give OS4 the time of day. Yea, I'm a MorphOS snob. With the knowledge, programming power and creativity on the MOS Dev team I'm just excited to see what they come up with next.


    Quote:


    So... Where can I buy a new PPC Mac? Aaand where can I buy a new Sam?


    I'd look in your local craigslist or ebay for a G4 Mac Mini. As for the SAM440, Acube sells it but I dont know their URL.


    -Alex
  • »30.09.08 - 05:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    ausPPC wrote:
    Well! I'm converted - sign me up for regular KoolAid injections and just give me a nudge to remind me to snarl at OS4 people if I forget.

    So... Where can I buy a new PPC Mac?



    http://cgi.ebay.de/Apple-Mac-mini-Power-PC-G4-1-42-GHz-256-RAM-incl-Boxen_W0QQitemZ160287003077QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160287003077&_trkparms=72%3A1239%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

    That is a G4 1.42GHz including, case, harddisk, kbd, mouse, speakers.

    Quote:


    Aaand where can I buy a new Sam?


    http://www.vesalia.de/d_sam440ep.htm

    Wow - nearly double the price for a less than half clocked, L2 less mobo without hdd, case, psu, kbd, mouse.

    Impressive!

    I guess the arguemenmts are all pro Sam now!
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »30.09.08 - 09:58
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 31.07.2011 - 03:09 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »30.09.08 - 11:50
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    MorphOS on PPC Mac is going to be very cool and I look forward to seeing what it can do on a multi G5 system. But until OS4 finds it's way onto the same hardware, people who want to use both OSes will have to get two separate computers.

    The other important point about Sam is that it's fresh off the production line unlike PPC Macs.

    And, to be clear, I am not an OS4 user. But I do not accept the argument / assumption that any of the next-gen Amiga OSes is better or more correct than the other. That smells just like religious intollerance. If you need to fight, fight about something that matters.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »30.09.08 - 15:02
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    koan
    Posts: 303 from 2005/11/21
    From: UK
    Quote:

    I look forward to seeing what it can do on a multi G5 system


    No one has said anything about MorphOS on all PPC Macs; only on Mac Mini. I don't know very much about Macs but the difference between motherboards must be huge.

    MorphOS is not designed for a multiprocessor system (is it ?) so a dual G5 would mean one processor doing nothing.

    Quote:

    That smells just like religious intollerance


    Why bring religion into it ? Someone who has spent several hundred Euros on a Sam plus 100 Euros on OS4 is not going to spend 150 Euros on MorphOS. Most people who wanted MorphOS on new hardware and didn't mind low power machines have bought EFIKA, so who are you targeting by porting to Sam ?

    The differences between Hyperion's OS and MorphOS are getting more and more, you can't deny that. I don't see that as a problem. If OS4 gets some sparkly feature that everyone wants then MorphOS team will write their own version, result: everyone wins. There is still a lot of software that is available to both OSs too.
  • »30.09.08 - 15:52
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Perhaps MorphOS will find it's ways onto a G5 system, perhaps it won't. I still look forward to seeing it on a dual / quad / what-have-you G5.

    Quote:

    Why bring religion into it ?


    The mindset of mutual exclusivity isn't limited to those who attend whacky churches - it can be seen in politics, art and, sad to say, even science. It's the fuel of internet flame wars. I don't understand why choosing one OS over another is that important to some - especially when both are derived from the same parent.

    After having decided that a computer and it's OS is worth spending money on, who knows what the user may do? If the distribution model for MorphOS remains as try-before-you-buy then MorphOS is a nice, low risk choice to at least investigate. Getting ever so slightly back on topic, as long as ACube are more cooperative than Sony, Sam is a better target than PS3. However, the energy is obviously behind PPC Mac which remains an interesting choice for the time being.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »30.09.08 - 22:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    MorphOS3.5 on a dual G5 (quad core) PPC PowerMac at 2.7ghz (or was 3.0ghz the fastest of the last PPC PowerMac's produced?) would be a fantastic dream come true. With 4gb RAM, support for multiple graphics cards, USB2.0 and Firewire, a pair of 750gb SATA hdd's and a one or two DVD writing "SuperDrives" all at a price that I could pick up used on eBay or Craigslist for about the same price as a complete SAM440ep system that has only half the ports and hdd capacity and 1/8 the RAM.

    Yeah, it would take a huge effort to complete the port of MorphOS and write all the drivers for all the devices and such, but it would be so faaaaaaassst. I know it is a dead end and there are only so many G5 Macs in the World and there won't be any more once they die, but it would be one helluva MorphOS machine!

    I wonder how many G5 Macs were produced? :-?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »01.10.08 - 04:35
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  • MorphOS Developer
    CISC
    Posts: 619 from 2005/8/27
    From: the land with ...
    Quote:

    MorphOS is not designed for a multiprocessor system (is it ?) so a dual G5 would mean one processor doing nothing.


    Quark/qbox is, abox isn't - and never will be (trying to kludge that in will just cripple the OS beyond repair), as for a G5 the only "problem" will not just be "wasting" a CPU but also degrading its performance/capabilities in 32bit mode (the G5 performs badly enough against G4 to begin with)...


    - CISC
  • »01.10.08 - 07:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    koan
    Posts: 303 from 2005/11/21
    From: UK
    How about a bounty to get the MorphOS team a G5 PowerMac ? Would they be interested ? Or perhaps a couple more Mac Minis ?

    I would prefer to aim for new (available) hardware though.
  • »01.10.08 - 08:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    What do ppl always have abut the G5? As pointed out several times the G5 is not the best target.
    The cpu draws a lot of power, runs hot, the Altivec equivalent is relatively poor and to use it with the ABox is would have to be operated in 32 bit mode (and w/o using some tricks only one core will be used), plus boards are not new, too (and since hot parts are used their expexted lifetime will be lower than "cool" chip based boards like iBook or Mini.
    And MorphOS on the Mini and ibook are relativly easy to achieve, the 7447 is supported already.
    Plus, the port is quite advanced.
    Let's keep pragmatic ad realisti and let the team finish the Mini port (plus iBook maybe) and then it is time to think about what comes next.

    But if thinking about hypothetical future plans, let's hope for some 8610 based device soon. IMO the smartest choice for now:
    small, cheap, low energy but surprisingly fast.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »01.10.08 - 09:37
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 730 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    G5 Altivec performance is boosted by the fast memory bus. In contrast G4 memory bus chokes and causes a bottleneck.

    G4 may be faster than slowest G5 but the difference is that G5 scales to almost twice the frequency: You can buy 2.8Ghz G5 with 900Mhz memory buses: that makes any G4 bite the dust and that's why people would want it.

    An iMac G5 running at 2.5Ghz with Radeon 9600 gfx card would be a good MorphOS target. It would be a good platform to start developing 3D support for R9600 series too.

    Those who dream about 4GB of ram better forget it: AmigaOS/MorphOS are 32bit OSes and won't use more than 2GB of ram.

    [ Edited by Crumb on 2008/10/1 11:19 ]
  • »01.10.08 - 11:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    Yes, the faster bus of the G5 is the only big advantage I see (faster drives, too). But *if* a 8610 based device materializes then this advantage is > NIL:.
    Prob is, there is no 8610 yet and a G5 port is unlikely (doesn't make too much sense). Ergo: Be happy with the coming Mini (hopefully ibook, too) port.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »01.10.08 - 12:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You can buy 2.8Ghz G5 with 900Mhz memory buses

    Where?

    > An iMac G5 running at 2.5Ghz with Radeon 9600 gfx card

    ...does not exist.

    > It would be a good platform to start developing
    > 3D support for R9600 series too.

    An already supported platform would be even better suited for starting development of (3D) drivers for not yet supported GPUs.
  • »01.10.08 - 23:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > dual G5 (quad core) PPC PowerMac at 2.7ghz (or was
    > 3.0ghz the fastest of the last PPC PowerMac's produced?)

    Neither. There was 2.7 GHz dual G5 and later 2.5 GHz dual dual core (aka quad core) G5.

    > it is a dead end and there are only so many G5 Macs
    > in the World and there won't be any more once they die

    That's what the Terra Soft PowerStation is for.
  • »02.10.08 - 00:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    No MorphOS on G5 ever....... okay, I can live with that fact. I was just dreaming anyway.

    I do hope we get it on the Mac Mini soon and that the team is also able to get MOS3.x working on the iBook or better yet, PowerBook and maybe some G4 iMacs as well.

    I will send my G4 1ghz PowerBook in to be repaired the day I read that it is supported by MOS3.x!
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »02.10.08 - 05:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    mobydick
    Posts: 179 from 2004/2/26
    From: Mordor, capita...
    Quote:


    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    That's what the Terra Soft PowerStation is for.


    [Homer Simpson mode on]
    Foooddd...
    [Homer Simpson mode off]

    The only problem is price. And SLOF firmware (i think it is not very compatible with SmartFirmware).
    Pegasos II/G4@1GHz, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9
    Efika MX Smartbook, Ubuntu 12.04
    peguser.narod.ru
  • »02.10.08 - 08:50
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