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Hi Andrea.
The KHTML engine code will be released, since it's LGPL. But reading comments 17 and 19 in the first page of the thread, I guess marcik decided to keep closed source even the MUI wrapper part, which would make the KHTML engine fairly useless (from the source code point of view, obviously). In fact he said that he only made 4 or 5 changes to the original source on that department, and basically it means everybody wanting to use KHTML would be better off downloading Nokia's Webcore code right now and make the small changes by themselves.
I don't think it's totally fair to change the distribuition rules at this point - not if he wants to accept the bounty -, since Sputnik wouldn't be "bounty compliant". If he decides to sell Sputnik and keep the MUI rendering code and the browser code closed, then he should resign from the bounty as soon as the decision is taken.
On the other hand that's his decision, and since the "custom" parts are those that are taking much more efforts and time, I might understand why he wants to keep 'em closed. There have been people who said are not in any case interested in Sputnik. Maybe they would like to see marcik's KHTML port integrated in IBrowse (and there's nothing preventing this from the licencing point of view - it would happen in a eye blink since IBrowse is already MUIfied, contrary to AWeb). Maybe 100 people would register IBrowse in that case and 200 would update it. Do your maths: someone would end up with like 10000 Euro doing nothing, someone else would have ported KHTML, wrapped it to MUI and should be happy with 2000USD...

Finally, one good shareware browser is better than no browser, but at least marcik should make up his mind soon, and decide wheter to resign from the bounty or to fulfill it.

@falemagn: no money have been transferred (yet). It works just like with AROS bounties: payment is made when the bounty is completed. So, if marcik resigns, either the bounty will be open for anyone else, or money might be transferred to other bounties. In this case the situation is more complex, because there have been a couple of donors that are not MorphOS users, so in that case they might like to have the money back...

Kind regards,
Andrea

[ Edited by guruman on 2006/7/28 14:14 ]

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I know that, I never suggested it has.

@guruman

Hi Andrea,
yes i know that nothin has been decided.. but please.. if we want our platforms to grow a little bit should abandon (for the moment at least..) the idea we can sell a browser now when other platforms has free alternatives. we are destined to the death..
the browser today is a fundamental component of an os. we aren't speaking about a game.
and even if i know that marcik's work is hard i think that 2000$ are really a great reward.
Yes we all are free to made the proper choice but what about if developers like mplayer team, blender team and so on wasn't existed at all? do u think that our platform could exists with 90' software?

always IMHO..

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Oops! Sorry Sonic! (Blushes)

@ marcik

I'm not denying you or anyone else the opportunity to make money from their efforts (and I don't think anyone else is either). That's why I have been promoting this bounty on other sites each time something happens with your status reports!

But I think there is a clear limit on how much money you could make on this "market" (no real market at all) by going closed and commercial. You would also have to factor in piracy as well. Going commercial is a big question mark IMHO (but it's *sure as hell* that you won't be able to *live* on your Amiga programming, so if your argument is that you "want to eat" you should have a real day-time job, and look at this as an extra income (hey $2000 is not peanuts after all, and what if it doubles?)), while the bounty is *safe* money that has *already been paid* and is stored at an account. Trust me, there will be much more money than what's there now, when the project starts looking more tangible to people.

Besides, having it open source would be the best thing from a platform point of view. You would be doing our beloved platform a big favour, and that should be worth something in itself, right? Look what happened with Ambient when it was open sourced. Several people working together, at a much higher pace, and continuation is guaranteed.

Of course you are making the decision, but I think you should make up your mind on this *now* ...

yipes!

Ok, I'd never thought I see the day when Morph guys are arguing about open source and GPL and LGPL license schemes! (Well after the ambient fiasco) so funny a closed source OS with a huge debate on sources!

Anway, this issue is very complex:

1. What has to be understoo is this: An individual who creates something - in this case software - has the right to do whatever he/she wants with it.

2. Saying 1. I will say that it would be Ethical for marcik to comlete the exact terms of the bounty if possible.

3.GPL and LGPL'd concepts can be very esoteric and interpretive.

4. I doubt that all of marcik's work will be completely open sourced - hence the Limited GPL.

5. As long as MOS guys get the browser and wrapper, it suits the Morphzone bounty.

6. Worse case, bounties will be refunded - donars will be pissed, marcik will be flamed, but yet everyone will buy the browser ;)

7. $2k is very little money for a programmer to work for months on end, and surely he can make triple that selling it as a commercial product. But dont forget, it must be of commerical Quality.

As you can see, its a very complex matter. Not black and white at all

magnetic

@marcik: a beta release by end of summer for us to try would help this argument out a lot imho.

and it must be nice to be laire

You need to make up you mind ASAP and get it over with. You are putting a strain on the system and I cant see any more donations comming in before you do.

Keeping in mind you accepted the bounty with the intentions of actually following it, not to see how much others would make on your work once they put it into software that is commercial. I feel for you on that, but you did not get forced to do it.

Here is the problem we now face. Why would anyone take over the bounty now knowing you are about to release something for sale? Its a no win situation, people would rather put money into yours knowing its more complete and about ready.

I am recomending to Targhan that we pull your bounty agreement at the end of August and refund those that want it, then put the money that doesnt get refunded into another one or in the pool after a vote poll is set up to see how those involved feel about what should be done with it all.

Again as far as I am concerned you have to the end of August to make up your mind one way or the other.

@hooligan

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Maybe ...

[ Edited by samo79 on 2006/7/28 17:55 ]

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Actually, it is peanuts. Today I paid bills worth of 1200 EUR (1520 USD).

If you live in finland it probably is, in portugal it is roughly 3-4 minimum wages

[ Edited by pixie on 2006/7/29 9:06 ]

Well I've a little suggestion :
- releasing Spoutinik as it was said in the bounty scheme
- then makes paying big updates (with a good browser gui, plugins, I don't know :-p)

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Thats fine with me, and as in the rules the source can go to morphzone and not be released to the public, as long as the GPL parts are.

How about some specific recommendations on what to do? Perhaps, we can participate in a solution.

R&B

P.S. We took Mikko's advice and deleted the other thread.

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Thank you for noticing.

So, we have now two very interesting threads going on here.. may I ask what sort of suggestions Genesi is expecting when it comes to KHTML? A few good suggestions have already been presented, and the options arent unlimited as we know the licensing rules.

In any case, good to have you back BBRV. Enjoyed your summerholiday? I know I did

How about this for starters...

Whatever the difference is between what has been donated and what can be returned to contributors (after PayPal changes, currency conversions, etc.), Genesi would make up the difference so that the full amount contributed could be returned by Dave.

We can do that if we need to go that way.

We will read the thread more carefully later today and also ask for some advice from others in the meanwhile. If you have an idea you want to share please send us an email at bbrv@genesippc.com .

It is unfortunate to see this sort of problem.

R&B :)

I don't think most of us want our money back, we want a browser in accordance with the terms of the bounty.

Well, I said that no decision will be made until end of summer, but as I'm having a break today (I think i desevred it - yesterday new engine rendered it first webpage, and from now it'll be much easier so expect some status raport and screenshots soon ) and after reading posts in this thread i've started to think about sollution like this:
1. Bounty version will be released for free. But non LGPL parts of sources won't released. They will be sent to morphzone with a clause that they can be released when i'll stop developing (say, that for example if i won't release any new version in one year then it's dead and sources can be released). And to this version only bug-fix releases are possible.
2. Non-bounty version will be paid, and more advenced (and price will be lower than suggested by someone 49 euros). Possible in future switiching to new version of engine will be also covered by this non-bounty version.

Any comments (well, comments about my sucky english aren't needed )?

PS. Yes, still no decision was made. It's all random thoughs, like whole non-free idea was. But since it went public, then it's not much that i can do and whole debate must a public now

[ Edited by marcik on 2006/7/30 22:31 ]

Great plan, and its how things should be done. Thanks Marcik

Very reasonable in my opinion.

for me it's ok

marcik, I'd pay for an os4 version, but I understand your passion is with MOS. bad day for os4 users. :(

jahc, I'm sure that there will be OS4 version later, no need to worry about it:

1. If it'll be opensourced, then someone will port it
2. If it'll be shareware/commercial then Marcik will port it for OS4 to catch bigger market

Both situations are win win

could be a solution but which are the LGPL and the not LGPL parts?

So far so good, but I have three pretty important questions:

1) What about OS4 and AROS versions? I've personally promoted this bounty to OS4 users. It would be grossly unfair for users of other systems that have donated to not have a version for their systems. Will you collaborate to developers of their systems to produce ports? ChainQ would be ideal, I guess.

2) What about the MCC that was to be produced at a later date? Is this still the plan or is this now abandoned?

3) While I fully trust you, we are all humans. Who decides what constitutes an update? What if you suddently go mad and start releasing ultra minor updates just to withhold the source to your name until you find time? You've spent one hell of a lot of time on this project, that is certainly worth much more than just the bounty, but still, you have a day job, there's no guarranty that you will have time for major updates.

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Promoting the bounty to other sites is great, but this is a bounty for a MorphOS version. If anyone feels like they are putting a donation in for anything other then that, well then they are wrong. I am not saying it wont get ported after and I hope it does, but first and formost this is for MorphOS.

I say let him complete it, release the initial version and we will see where it goes from there.