JIT JS Bounty - update
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Papiosaur wrote:
    I'm agree this you too, bigfoot realize many efforts and i'm ok to tranfert the bounty directly to him too.




    Well everybody?
    Input?

    That sounds like a good plan, transferring it to Papi, then after a period during which those that request it can retrieve their funds, and finally providing the remainder to Mark.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.04.18 - 13:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Well bounty terms are clear. Money is paid out when product is delivered, as simple as it is. For this moment there is no product so I cannot agree to payout the developer before bounty is fulfilled. When I collected the money terms were clear.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »27.04.18 - 14:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1009 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Papiosaur wrote:
    I'm agree this you too, bigfoot realize many efforts and i'm ok to tranfert the bounty directly to him too.




    Well everybody?
    Input?

    That sounds like a good plan, transferring it to Papi, then after a period during which those that request it can retrieve their funds, and finally providing the remainder to Mark.


    That would open up Pampers to criminal charges in most European nations. I'd be surprised if that was legal in the US too.
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  • »27.04.18 - 15:45
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1778 from 2003/2/24
    It would surely get noone arrested and I doubt anybody trying a civil suit would have a leg to stand on.

    But on high seas and in court your allways in god‘s hand.....
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  • »27.04.18 - 18:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 700 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Well bounty terms are clear. Money is paid out when product is delivered, as simple as it is. For this moment there is no product so I cannot agree to payout the developer before bounty is fulfilled. When I collected the money terms were clear.


    I don't know about others, it's their money and I can't decide for them but my little contribution goes to Bigfoot for sure.
  • »28.04.18 - 10:19
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    [This comment is a reply to that relocated comment.]

    > Wiktor [has] just offered to turn it over to a third party, and the third party has
    > discussed the option of paying the bounty out even though the goal wasn't met

    Then pampers could very well pay out the bounty himself, couldn‘t he? It doesn‘t seem to make sense for him to give the bounty to a third party who will simply do what he could do easily himself but clearly doesn‘t want to be done.

    >>> you're saying that paying on an incomplete contract [...]

    >> ...with someone else‘s money without all the money owners‘ explicit consent...

    > Andreas [...] you [...] sound paranoid. [...] Andreas...you [...]
    > sound like children discussing the boogie man

    I just said that there’s a difference between paying on an incomplete contract with your own money versus doing so with someone else‘s money without all the money owners‘ explicit consent. Do you think pampers sounds paranoid and like a child as well just because he is against paying on an incomplete contract with other people‘s money? I for one can understand his reasoning.

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 30.04.2018 - 12:41 ]
  • »28.04.18 - 14:46
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    This is going to far. I'm off for short hols and when I get back I will sort this out. I will contact bigfoot is he able to deliver within let's say a month and if not I will try to reach every donor (mission impossible but will try) and refund them. Then they can do with their money whatever they want.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »28.04.18 - 18:57
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 825 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    As far as I'm concerned, Bigfoot earned my share well, by his hard work. My humble donation may go straight to him, unless it's simplier for you to do a refund.

    P.S. It's really sad that this good initiative ends up like that. (post)Amiga world... always melodaramatic... :(
  • »28.04.18 - 19:36
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    As far as I'm concerned, Bigfoot earned my share well, by his hard work. My humble donation may go straight to him, unless it's simplier for you to do a refund.

    P.S. It's really sad that this good initiative ends up like that. (post)Amiga world... always melodaramatic... :(


    Well you can send him money straight away after (and if) I will do the refunds. I don't get what dramatic is in here. But it's simple to say so when you don't have to hold the money which doesn't belong to you.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »29.04.18 - 07:31
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 825 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Well you can send him money straight away after (and if) I will do the refunds. I don't get what dramatic is in here. But it's simple to say so when you don't have to hold the money which doesn't belong to you.


    I didn't mean you when I wrote "melodramatic". I was referring to whole this situation and us debating endlessly like it was worth it in the first place.
  • »29.04.18 - 09:15
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1009 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    This is going to far. I'm off for short hols and when I get back I will sort this out. I will contact bigfoot is he able to deliver within let's say a month and if not I will try to reach every donor (mission impossible but will try) and refund them. Then they can do with their money whatever they want.


    Sound reasonable, Wiktor.
    Sorry for all the complications resulting from you trying to do a good deed.

    Your resolution seems like the only realistic course.
    You haven't stated what you intend to do with the funds that remain should you not be able to contact everyone, but unlike some postings here I'd never insinuate that you'd do anything untoward with it.

    I have a good idea of who I can trust, and after dealing with you for a few years, I trust you and your judgement completely.

    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    As far as I'm concerned, Bigfoot earned my share well, by his hard work. My humble donation may go straight to him, unless it's simplier for you to do a refund.

    P.S. It's really sad that this good initiative ends up like that. (post)Amiga world... always melodaramatic... :(


    Melodramatic...yep, that about sums it up.
    For once I'm not even addressing Andreas' response, the insinuation that he made that my comment was directed at anyone other than him and Nicholas is beneath him.

    Honestly, is anyone here foolish enough to think that a simple bounty project for a hobbyist project would result in complications with the legal system?
    We have more lawyers per capita in the United States than any other country in the world, and we have a very litigious society, and still..something like this would leave those in our legal system shaking their heads or outright laughing.

    The only real lesson here appears to be to leave bounty programs to people or organizations with experience (like Papi) and a clearly stated policy.


    Putting the transfer of the funds to Mark without completion of the work to one side for a moment.

    Transferring the Personal Data (Email address, name) of the people who funded the bounty could quite possibly be illegal under GDPR without the explicit consent of each person in question. At the very least it's a grey area.

    You want to open Wiktor up to possible trouble just because "America, rah!"?
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  • »29.04.18 - 13:45
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Transferring the Personal Data (Email address, name) of the people who
    > funded the bounty could quite possibly be illegal under GDPR without the
    > explicit consent of each person in question. At the very least it's a grey area.

    That‘s what I think as well, see my comment #45 and the solution suggested therein.
  • »29.04.18 - 13:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1009 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Transferring the Personal Data (Email address, name) of the people who
    > funded the bounty could quite possibly be illegal under GDPR without the
    > explicit consent of each person in question. At the very least it's a grey area.

    That‘s what I think as well, see my comment #45 and the solution suggested therein.


    Ah sorry, I didn't notice your comment Andreas.

    With Wiktor being an individual rather than an organisation it may be ok, but with money being transferred and collected for a particular purpose and work being commissioned this muddy the waters somewhat and it could be considered a commercial contract.

    edit: Would be more straightforward for everyone concerned if each person was refunded and then Papi started another bounty with the same goal and solicited new donations.

    [ Edited by Intuition 29.04.2018 - 14:14 ]
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  • »29.04.18 - 14:12
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Transferring the Personal Data (Email address, name) of the people who
    > funded the bounty could quite possibly be illegal under GDPR without the
    > explicit consent of each person in question. At the very least it's a grey area.

    That‘s what I think as well, see my comment #45 and the solution suggested therein.


    Ah sorry, I didn't notice your comment Andreas.

    With Wiktor being an individual rather than an organisation it may be ok, but with money being transferred and collected for a particular purpose and work being commissioned this muddy the waters somewhat and it could be considered a commercial contract.

    edit: Would be more straightforward for everyone concerned if each person was refunded and then Papi started another bounty with the same goal and solicited new donations.


    Gee, the fact that Wiktor is just an individual has finally sunken in, and yet you are still fixated about what might be illegal. Now
    you're invoking the GDPR.

    Must make doing things like creating an office pool to buy a gift really complicated for people over there if a law intended for companies is applied to casual endeavors.

    I start the collection, turn it over someone else, and the police arrest me for providing a list of who donated. Horrifying. ;-)

    In any case, Wiktor has already resolved to try to handle the returns himself, and I'm sure he'll manage to figure out handle the remainder even if it means holding it indefinitely.

    Oh, and kudos to Andre for cleaning up the thread and putting it back on track.

    RAh America!

    [ Edited by Jim 30.04.2018 - 07:12 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.04.18 - 12:11
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Update guys, I just got email from Mark stating:

    Quote:

    I'll look at it this week, and by the end of the week I'll let you know if I'm gonna complete it within your suggested timeframe or if you should give the money back.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »16.05.18 - 08:24
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    X fingers crossed X
  • »16.05.18 - 10:30
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    And another update from Mark:

    Quote:

    Yeah, I'll finish this. I've now set up a relatively decent working environment and I managed to squash one of the big long-standing bugs today, making it one step closer to being usable.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »22.05.18 - 05:54
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 825 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    And another update from Mark:

    Quote:

    Yeah, I'll finish this. I've now set up a relatively decent working environment and I managed to squash one of the big long-standing bugs today, making it one step closer to being usable.



    That would be incredible. The 2018 seems like a great year for MorphOS so far, and there are still over 6 months to go.
  • »22.05.18 - 06:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 452 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    Now this is exciting!
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »22.05.18 - 08:42
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Yay!
  • »22.05.18 - 09:04
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 276 from 2013/5/29
    Fantastic news!!!!!
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  • »22.05.18 - 14:50
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Stevo
    Posts: 811 from 2004/1/24
    From: #AmigaZeux
    zomg!!!111 :-D
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  • »22.05.18 - 17:24
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    waldiamiga
    Posts: 56 from 2007/7/25
    From: Krakow, Poland
    Bigfoot rulez!
    Thanks Pampers.

    [ Edited by waldiamiga 22.05.2018 - 20:35 ]

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  • »22.05.18 - 19:34
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 223 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Hooray! \o/ :-D
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  • »22.05.18 - 19:41
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