Well the votes are in and this is my recomended list from the results.

1. TCP/IP Stack (Yes I know its said to be in 1.5, so what? People want it, let them pay into it and have someone do it if they decide while we wait)

2. Modern WEB Browser ( Yes I know mozilla is taking funds for this. We all know that. This isnt asking for a firefox or other port. I see this as Ibrowse, Voyager, AWEB ect updated to handle modern sites with CSS ect being ported to MorphOS. Thats what the requirements will state)

3. Radeon 3D Drivers (Same as above)

4. GTK->MUI Wraper

5. Firewire Stack (Hard I would think, but so was USB and it was done)

6. Updated SFS Salve type app

7. Blender ( I have no idea what this is. I need help making the requirements and the write up)

I think its a good start. Its not the only bounties that will be up. Nothing is set in stone. If you have a bountie and want to support it with a donation then you can do that. All you need to do is post in the forum what you would like. We need to decide what ammount is required to start a bountie. Lets say a user does a $50 one to start something. I would say that is a lot of money and a his bountie gets posted for that.

Your thoughts?

4+5 look reasonable. 4 is already up for AROS
and should be handled there ...

1+3 We've waited so long for 1.5, I think we can wait longer.

2 is a waste of time and money

jm2c

HI Acill

Ok.. now we are moving along

Alot of logistics right?

Here is some of my feedback if you dont mind

1. TCP/ip > rather pointless as a bounty since it will for sure be in 1.5 and NOBODY is going to release the current ver until the update afaik.. so a moot bounty

2. Modern browser: Excellent - forget mozilla or firefox port wont happen - but updated Vger or Aweb is possible (ibrowse author is os4 fanboy and does not want to support mos afaik)

3. Radeon driver: hmm.. well should be in 1.5 (since all the crying is going on) but maybe with a bounty bigfoot will finalize and release it but I doubt it...

4. GTK<>Mui wrapper : excellent and needed and shouldnt be _that_ hard...

5. FW stack: very difficult and only a handful of people can actually do it .. i.e Ralph S, Frank M, ??

6. Updated sfs salve: great idea and needed(with a nice gui too)

7. Blender: great port of the famous linux 3d program - ask kiero about details about it I think he uses it..

good luck and Thank you

magnetic

ps Instead of bounties for exsiting mos "1.5" components why not just have a general MOS Team Fund or something??

I agree Magnetic with all you said, but TCP/IP did get the most overall votes. I think the peoples voice should be respected?

Lets talk more on this. The others all should be added. The 3D drivers as well. I would like to see the stack go on too, aros has one and they still need a browser, if the MOS team will come in here and tell us its a wast of time then thats another matter. I havent ever heard just how far the one that should be in 1.5 is. As for a general MOS team fun I would love to do that, but they stated in the past they will not take money from us. So I dont know how they feel about that now.

[ Edited by Acill on 2005/6/11 9:36 ]

If we are to take 1 as a bounty, it will have a LOT of requirements. I will not just accept some command line, needing a con window open, and hard to configure tcp/ip stack. It will require a GUI, it will require DHCP, and if based on the AROS tcp/ip stack -- the code MUST be re-submitted to the AROS project.

2 -> I will _CALL_ Mr. AmiZilla before we even think about doing any kind of modern webbrowser type of bounty. IBrowse, while it's my current favorite browser, is exempt from any kind of browser bounty - It's a COMMERCIAL product. If we want this stuff in IB, then we do a big signature list.... Don't know about Voyager support at the moment(?) AWeb will require a major rewrite, as it will have to actually WORK before it can tout that it has CSS.

3. ????? If you can do this, you should already be ON the mos-team. But... We'll see what they say about this.

4. Interesting. I kind of like this one.

5. Yeah! We should be able to use what is on the m/b, right?

6. Needed. badly.

7. Is this a 3d app? How can we have a bounty for this if the bounty for #3 isn't finished?

I think that $50 is a good amount for having a bounty started.
Where are the rules ? I think that to be successfull there must be some basic rules somewhere.

Targhan go through the voted list and see what you want to do. I am open to any you want to list as the first five or so of them. I just want it to be fair.

Okay Acill, thanks.

First, I would like to curb the Blender idea for at least a week or two, as something simular and very interesting is coming down the pipeline in about the same time-frame. I don't want to make anyone's donation become a "oh crap, I donated to the wrong thing", so when I know something is upcoming -- I think it is only fair to put the breaks on the other until both can be posted.

Thanks everyone, again, for all the input. We are working very hard to get everything in order to open up the shop, so to speak.

There is much to do, and I hope everyone will be satisfied with the results.

There's big difference between usb and firewire...

docs are NOT free for firewire... and the stack documentation costs about $10 000 IIRC... so....

Hi Acill
I really apreciate your effort with the bounty, it is a great thing indeed.
But I really have to write some thoughst about it, would have written it allready when i saw the poll, but now with your recomended list i think it is abolutley neccesary ;)

I begin to think that it would have been better to organize the bounty as they are organized by AROS. I mean, An Individual define a bounty, name what it should be able to do and spent money. Done!

The reason why i think that would have been better is, People have to start thinking about whats needed.

When i go to this list, i really have to shake my head ;)
I mean, TCP Stack??? There *is* a TCP Stack with 1.5, so an Effort which is done now will be pretty much usesless when 1.5 arrive. And no, I don`t think it is very wise to have several TCP Stacks arround. And 68k Stacks, while they are a bit slower due the emulation stuff, work well with 1.4. And if one hasn`t allready a stack, hey Amiga OS 3.9 costs only a few bucks nowadays, it shouldn`t be that hard. The only resonable effort I can think about the TCP Stack issue is a small addition for the widles used Genesis Stack, for DSL Users one can eventually assign a bounty for a pppoe device, because Genesis can`t handle that. (But there was a driver especially for the X-surf, so it is possible)

So I vote *NO* for a TCP Stack!

Web Browsers:
*sigh* Believe me, I know that a modern Web Browser is more than urgent. But lets check some facts: You mentioned "improved Versions of Voyager, IBrowse or Aweb"
Well, Voyager and IBrowse are commercial so a "no go" AWeb is a complete dead end. It *has* to be written from scratch, not only due the Reaction Interface. They are as it seems considering going khtml. But no bounty would help here.
And as you allready noted the Amizilla Effort.. well you know, they are almost reaching the 10000$ Line... Hell how much can we collect to make that more reasonable? ;)

I vote *no* for a Browser bounty

Radeon 3D Drivers

Again, this is an OS dependant thing.
It just happend that we had on the german Pegasos Forum a similar discussion, a guy asked what software project should be started, as he has some spare time. As it was here, the first things mentioned where TCP, Browser, Office, and Radeon drivers.
But please hold an for a minute. Is MorphOS in its current state that bad? I think no, many of us use it everyday. Sure, not everything is perfect and believe me, I would be more than happy to have a modern Browser, native TCP and so on. But.. whats really lacking are more modern apps, not OS components!
Beside the fact that as like the TCP stack, 3D for Radeon will come with 1.5, how much usefull will a 3d driver really? Some 3D Game Ports? Yeah, thats what we need... There is currently only one app that I am aware of, which needs propper 3D to work, 3D Titler.

I vote *no" for Radeon drivers

Mui GTK Wrapper
Well the first thing I personally think is very usefull, which will hopefully make porting of some *nix Stuff more easy. But we are again going to reinvent the wheel, like in the first 3 topics. But this need some more explenation.
The reason is not only that there allready exists an AROS Bounty.
The main reason is (just imho of course) because there are afaik allready some people working on such an effort (doing that for the Mozilla Port) and I am pretty sure, when they going to complete it, they will assign that bounty. The work they do will be available for MorphOS as well.
So at the end we will only have 2 bounties assigned to the same project. Those who want to donate to a GTK Mui Wrapper really should concentrate on the AROS Bounty

So again NO for GTK Mui Wrapper, although it is a good project, but it is allready addressed

that leaves (imho) just 5, 6, and 7 as reasonable bounty effords, with the exeption that a FW stack really isn`t done that easy.

I hope that this posting didn`t sound that negative, but I hope you got the point.
Nevertheless keep up your good work, as I said the bounty Idea in general is a good one, and what you have done so far is very good :)

i think point 6 is realy a good idea and a realistic point too.
a uptodate SFS salve with a easy to use gui is realy needed. I was also happy to get this new Defrag Tool with MOS 1.4.5.

thx to magnetic and bladerunner for the brainstorming.

i want to add something to point 5 (firewire stack) ... i read somewhere, if a firewire stack will be available that the only thing you can realy use is massstoragedevices. all the other interessting stuff like digital camcorders are not realy possible, because of paying high Lizences. And of course you need a Motionpicture software.

what i like to see is a irda.device to use the internal irda connector.

No, I don't think, update voyager or aweb is good way!Voyager and aweb
has wrong basis. Did you try to use this on pages coded in utf, or
simply in other iso then iso1? Did You try send information wrote on
this pages? Aweb and Voyagers and others webbrowser on amiga are
unusable!And some improve won't help them. I can pay only for new
webbrowser!

First of all I like to thank you all who are trying to do something about applications shortage for MorphOS, all your work is much apreciated, but I think this whole bounties thing is not going to work this way.
We can collect as many $$ as we like but if there are no programmers who are wiling to write something than there is no point doing so.
I think what we have to do is,


1 Try to make contact with the MorphOS-Team and ask them what is included in 1.5 and what is not
2 try to make a team of programmers and let them elect a leader who can speak for them
3 give them a list of what we all like to have and let them make a list of what is possible or not
4 we get the list back from the team and then we can vote.

I apology for my bad english

@deb

While I aggree with point 1, points 2 to 4 is just a real stupid idea (tm).

Just look at the AROS-bounties, and check which are actually done and which are sitting there.

For a bounty to be taken on it has to be challenging but still possible within a reasonable timeframe (lets say under 100 hours). If something is to big splitt it of into parts, but noone will take on a webbrowser or FW-stack bounty (unless he wanted to do it anway or someone puts REAL money into it).

Oh, and over all : Keep it simple !

@Kronos

If you do not agree with point 2 to 4 please just say I do not agree, you don't have to call it a stupid idea. This is not the way adult people talk to each other. It was jus a idea you don't have to like/agree with it.

[ Edited by deb on 2005/6/12 12:30 ]

I agreee with Kronos and with Bladerunner!
I think when the FW-Stack would be done then maybe MotionStudio would be released for MOS.
And what about USB2.0 Drivers for MOS? Afaik Guido Mersmann did Arrakatack(USB2.0 Drivers) and the Driver works,
but not on MOS or at least not like it should do maybe he could finalize them when we start a bounty.

And i agree with both Postings from deb. We need to know what is in 1.5 and what not and when will 1.5 be released this year or next???

[ Edited by ThePlayer on 2005/6/12 12:36 ]

[ Edited by ThePlayer on 2005/6/12 12:39 ]

Okay since I get so many comments against the TCP and Radeon thing I will not have it as a bountie. BUT keep in mind all of you that voted made it number one and two! That better tell something to the MOS team. I dont mean to be rude at all on that one as well. If the TCP is nothing more then a command line application with hard to set scripts then I guess we have to deal with that.

The browser thing is being addressed and we have an idea for it. I think its a good one as well and will work for all of us. So we will see how this one comes out.

GTK to MUI will go on. I dont care if AROS has one or not. We are not AROS and even a port from the AROS version if it gets made will still need to be ported to MOS.

Firewire, I agree is hard and I stated that. I dont expect it to go up to tell the truth.

The rest will stand, and FUTURE ones will be like the AROS bounties. An idea comes up, we talk about it and it goes on with a minimum dontation required by the sponser. The MOS team is also being talked with on all these ideas so its not like I am just jumping into this and not thinking it through. Please just trust that I know what I am doing okay?

[ Edited by Acill on 2005/6/12 5:20 ]

@Acill

But the AROS GTK->Zune/MUI wrapper bounty has been initiated explicitely with the idea and goal in mind to bring it to all Amiga operating systems.

And in case the two guys who are also working on AmiZilla will get the bounty, this will happen anyway.

(Previously they were going to just integrate this into AmiZilla, but when I contacted them to initiate that AROS bounty, they reconsidered to again do a general wrapper instead then.)

Furthermore there is the advantage for all the Amiga operating systems in general by doing this wrapper as an AROS bounty in the first place, given that this OS is open source.

Therefore I recommend anyone wanting such a wrapper - be he a MorphOS, AmigaOS, AROS or OS4 user - to increase the AROS bounty.

Would be more impressing and motivating to have a comparably big sum there than several smaller amounts of money spread over seperate OS4, MOS and AmigaOS bounty websites many people wouldn't know about.

If at all, IMHO, a MOS bounty could be done as an additional incentive to (point at the AROS bounty and) do a MOS conversion of the AROS one - but as I said, MOS and OS4 versions will be done by those working on the AROS bounty anyway.

Thus personally I'd simply add a link to the AROS bounty on the MOS bounty website to inform the visitors that it exists.

I think this discussion is going really good!

I have since long wanted to use the TV-out on my Radeon in MorphOS in some way.

I don't know what this is (I'm not a programmer so I am pretty clueless), but perhaps something useful could be made from this:

LINK

A bounty thing?

The logic of not starting a bountie for MorphOS bountie makes no sense to me. Why even start a MorphOS bountie system at all then? Lets just have links to the AROS bounties and make them grow?

The purpose of the bountie system is to get software for MORPHOS not other platforms. I understand what you are saying, but I dont not agree. If the developer for the GTK aros bountie wants to take on ours as well its fine, but mas it is we are loosing the two most voted ones because of flak from others. I will keep the GTK one. From here on out the next bounties will be up to all of you. If we telling what not to do it will never get done.

I do understand your view, too - it's just that then I'm thinking the same like Bladerunner: why this complicated effort at all then and not just do it the AROS way?

I.e. if someone comes up with an idea and is ready to spend some money to initiate the bounty, let him do so - the community will "vote" on it by either joining him with further donations or let it be.

I mean it's not like this way would have resulted in a mess of thousand 10$ bounties at AROS either.

But as I said, I do understand your point and it won't hurt either, of course - it just appears unnecessary to me; so if the MOS bounty system is intended to become a pre-selected one, personally I would have excluded this project, too.

But it's up to you, obviously, you are the active guys investing many efforts in setting such a MorphOS bounty program up - and I'm very grateful for that! Thanks!

You dont understand, its not preselected at all ONLY THE FIRST SET, thats was just to make it fair to the selection of the starting bounties. From here on out it wil be just like the AROS system. Someone comes up with a bountie and will pay for it, then it goes up. If its not a good one then I guess it wont get any more money.

Yes. This is only a first set. Not the only bounties that will ever be. Rules are going to be put into place for other bounties to be utilized. If something doesn't make it in the initial set-up, there will be things added.

Don't lose site of the fact that I've already put a lot of writing, coding, and other stuff up myself to make this project work. Don't forget that Acill has poked and prodded along to organize an effort. It is *TOO LATE* for stopping.

Don't give AROS a hard time. While I neither agree or disagree with Senex's objectives, I will state that some of our projects here will be re-donated back to the AROS project. If we do a tcp/ip stack, the code will start from the AROS project and be given back to them when we're done.

Hey Senex, instead of starting out with such a heavy project as an OS4->AROS<-MOS wrapper, how about something as simple as a Zune<->MUI translation library? How compatable are the two in the first place? Does it even need to be done?

Targhan, I'm no developer at all, so I can't really answer your question, but I guess there's no need for that.

And regarding the OS4/MOS wrapper for AROS/PPC, we've been told that it wouldn't be THAT difficult.

Thus I'm going to initiate that bounty in any case - I would (have) prefer(ed) if this could be done in cooperation with established (read: trusted) institutions/persons like Team AROS or your bounty program, but in case there should be no other viable solution, I'll have to do it myself, it seems, as drafted by the quick mock-up at pegasosppc.de.

(The AROS for Pegasos bounty suggested by you could certainly also be done as one of the regular Team AROS bounties instead, though.)

Maybe someone has suggestions for some alternative bounty program and/or trusted well-known Amiga person who could hold in trust the money for the OS4/MOS wrapper bounty?