I am new to MorphOS but have a question. In the past it seemed the MorphOS was built around the Pegasos motherboard. Now that Pegasos is long gone from being made, is there any other motherboard from a company like Genesi (or whatever other companies that can make PPC based boards) that MorphOS will be made to work on.
I like the Mac Mini of course but all of the Macs are used systems now with some age. Some folks like to buy brand new systems so good possibility the systems run longer without failure since some systems only live so long.

MorphOS looks to be a real nice OS and wonder if there are other motherboards on the market that MorphOS could be made to run on that offer better specs that the older Mac Minis, are new, and where someone can make and sell MorphOS boxes like in the Genesi Pegasos days.

I know MorphOS will eventually be available for PM G5 and all that but I owned a G5 Dual system, two of them, and they both failed at about 5 years of age. That is when I jumped to Intel based Macs since PPC was being left behind on Macs.

But, I like the idea of a MorphOS specific box for sure.

tj

There are more than a few of us who have thought about that. Its an expensive proposition and currently its hard to argue against the logic of the developers. G4 and G5 Macs ares cheap and plentiful and will perform as well as anything that could be constructed with currently available PPCs (discounting the idea of building a Power7 based MorphOS system).There are some interesting processors on the horizon. Freescale is about to introduce their e5500 cored P5 processors and Applied Micro is working on "Mamba".

But using these would be a pretty expensive proposition for a small scale run (a few hundred) and ideally whoever developed a board for MorphOS would want to pay for the port (to assure that its worth the time of the developers).

Don't discount it as impossible, but for right now, we're OK with what we've got.

I'm enjoying a beutiful Efika MX Smartbook since past friday. And one of the many thoughts that crossed my mind while doing so was that MorphOS is on the "wrong" platform.

And I love PowerPC. What I don't like is having no more than endless talks (although interesting) about hypothetic future processors that never get to broad market. Because MorphOS is a desktop operating system, and PowerPC left that station long ago.

I consider that the move to Mac mini was a brilliant one. I know the Smartbook is perhaps less available... Yet I can't help but feel convinced that MorphOS must go ARM. And completing the circle, as some "back to Genesi" affair, is perhaps the easiest route.

But I'm not being very original here...

I like the idea of switching to ARM CPUs very much, the Efika hardware is very cheap and has enough power. The same is with other interesting ARM hardware like the Beagle- or Pandaboard. jcmarcos, is there any other OS available for the Efika MX than Ubuntu? It seems stupid to make that clever hardware and slow it down with a Gnome desktop. Is there for example Angström available for the Efika MX? The progress with the Aros port seems to be very slow, too.

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Unlikely.

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Michal Schulz has Android running, no less... Given Big G's brand, go figure if it would be interesting. By the way, I got the 3G version, which has a slot for a SIM card. Also, Ubuntu seems to be able to make a network connection over it.

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Yes, the system stutters a lot. I'm shocked at the lack of responsiveness, but I'd like to do some more tests, and see if there are any other options. Right now it would only look nice to a computer knowledgeable person, with LOTS of patience.

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Isn't Michal the man for that too?

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Pity. And if there was some kind of approach from Genesi? Pretty please please pleas?

Think of this as a way to get this thread again on topic.

>> The progress with the Aros port seems to be very slow, too.

> Isn't Michal the man for that too?

Yes. Latest status report:

http://meehow.de/index.php/2011/03/status-of-aros-for-efikamx/

Oh hell, I confused Michal's surname. I meant Michal Grunditz, not Schulz. Big mistake on my part, sorry. I'm attempting to contact him, as I'm interested in his port of android, which has been seen already running in a Efika MX Smartbook. But every reference found is at least three monts old!

Now I've dragged this thread way off topic, first in hardware, and now in software...

> I confused Michal's surname. I meant Michal Grunditz, not Schulz.

Besides, his forename is Michael, not Michal ;-)

> every reference found is at least three monts old!

3 weeks ago:
http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14177#14177

More:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21022088@N07/sets/72157626102097464/detail/

> Some folks like to buy brand new systems so good possibility the systems run longer without failure since some systems only live so long.

Some folks have more money than sense. Hardware lock-in is such a retarded business model...

I don't care much for Apple / Jobs either but I take the point of view that running a non-Apple OS on their hardware is kind of satisfying.

There was at least one serious ppc alternative - Powerstation details. But that boat sailed and then sunk.

Powerstation pic

No, it wont. I feel ya as for the lack of new HW but I want nothing to do with intel or AMD for as long as I can hold out. ARM would be OK as long as either the PPC branch was maintained or it was turned over as open source. The PPC platform is very well-done, it is easier to optimize than x86 and tends to be more efficient. The only other architecture I really like is SuperH (dreamcast and saturn) but that is mostly relegated to cars :(

This looks fun but no idea what it costs.

> no idea what it costs.

http://www.gvs9000.com/gvsvsapple1.html

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I'm writing this on my new Efika MX Smartbook as well! I have just unpacked it and powered it up for the first time! Writing this in Firefox on Ubuntu!

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+1

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Personally, I couldn't care less about PPC. I don't understand why PPC would be such a holy grail...?

Like takemehomegrandma, I don't care about using PPC any more than any other hardware architecture. Other than programmers that write assembly code for one architecture or another, I don't see why anyone would have any preference for one CPU type over another, and the few that hate Intel, or Apple hardware just because they have some dislike for the companies, that makes no sense to me either when we are talking about buying used hardware.

As long as the MorphOS developers continue to use good sense in choosing platforms to port the OS to, which by that I mean that they choose the best performing hardware for the price paid that their small team of developers can complete good ports to and continue to support MorphOS after the port has been completed, I don't care if it is to new or used hardware, or which manufacturer makes it.

The MorphOS Dev Team has done a great job in choosing which hardware to support so far and I like the plans they have for the future (based on what they have stated and what has been shown as a "Proof of Concept"). Unless there is a significant change in the size and/or technical expertise of the Dev Team in the near future, I don't see any change of plans or direction in which platforms will be supported in the future. Maybe if the Team adds one or more wizards of OS development that know the x86, or Arm architectures expertly, then we might see a change in direction for the future, but until then, I don't see anything changing from what they have told us will be supported & hinted at with screen shots of G5 systems.

Long term future plans are too far off to worry about and we would be better served by having more MorphOS users trying to learn to program and create needed programs & games that better utilize the hardware we already have now, than waiting and wishing for better, or different hardware for the future.

> Other than programmers that write assembly code for one
> architecture or another, I don't see why anyone would have
> any preference for one CPU type over another

If we want to retain compatibility to m68k Amiga software (rexxsyslib.library comes to mind as a necessity*, but also gtlayout.library as shipped with MorphOS is still m68k) we'll have to stay with an architecture that can operate in a true big endian mode. That's purely a technical constraint and doesn't have anything to do with personal preference. I don't know if it would be feasible to go an Amithlon-esque way though, i.e. have a big endian ABox running on a little endian Quark kernel running on a little endian CPU, part of what Zylesea outlined. That's something someone with the insight of laire would have to comment on.

* There're possible ways out of this dilemma, as discussed here on MZ: http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7711&forum=12

> I don't see any change of plans or direction in which platforms will be supported
> in the future. Maybe if the Team adds one or more wizards of OS development
> that know the x86, or Arm architectures expertly, then we might see a change
> in direction for the future, but until then, I don't see anything changing from what
> they have told us will be supported & hinted at with screen shots of G5 systems.

I don't think the discussion is so much about MorphOS going x86 or ARM *instead* of going G5 Mac but more about going x86 or ARM *after* having put the G5 Macs to use.

> Long term future plans are too far off to worry about

Yes, maybe we should just be looking forward to G5 Mac support and not discuss what could or should come after that ;-)

Discuss - why not? We are not forcing Team to do anything, we have no power to do that anyway ;) But until discussion is interesting then ok, other than that better be silent. Also I'm looking forward to PB support, G5 is too far away I think.

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And are you feeling, like me, that that lovely computer is in DESPERATE need for a decent operating system? The stock Ubuntu 10.10 does have a helluva lot o' functions, but doesn't take advantage of the specific hardware, thus making it very very slow.

It won't change the fact that we don't plan to expand the range of supported hardware beyond what we have already shown in public for now ....

Ok, then we can change word discussion for dreaming ;)

Oh there is another chance for new MorphOS dedicated HW. Just wait until I win lotto...

Thanks Frank. I already am satisfied with what I have . Betterr video cards woould be nice and the Powerbook support will be great. I can wait for the G5 for some time.
Don't get me wrong G5 iMac and 2,3 Powermac support would be great, but I can wait for their release,
I've already got pretty good performance with the G4 and have an X800XT. A driver for that or a 3d driver for the 9700 would be useful.
With of course the qualifiers that some of the developers previously mentioned that some hardware may not get support. If that is the case, so be it, you've already done so much.

JIN



[ Edited by Jim on 2011/3/18 18:36 ]

Without going too far into the PPC vs intel debate, I see my stance as, say a rifleman prefers his old Mosin Nagant to remington 700: The 700 has little to offer to the mosin nagant owner as he has probably become more proficient with his old rifle than any potshot with the 700.

The x86 platform consists of a CISC processing system which has been found to be inferior to a RISC platform in terms of processing efficiency. To put this in perspective, in the past many home computers were more powerful than comtemporary consoles, yet the console could run the game at a smoother framerate. The reason lies in that computers have always had more storage and to be honest more than 40% of all code in modern programs could be removed and the program optimized. More powerful processors only encourage more half a**ed coding. PPC is an optimal solution in my opinion: cheap and easy to get, moderately powerful and has a large set of IDEs and libraries available for it.

X86 or ARM is not the answer, ever. I think the community is too demanding of these devlopers who develop for very little. If we drive MorphOS into a bloated OS like Windows it will be the shame and folly of every fool who let it get to that.

My message to the people who want new hardware:

I understand, we are all born to think "new" is better. But new is not better, as a computer rapidly loses value from its original price and look at it this way:

You don't need cutting edge, that is what brought you here, you want quality and that old feel of AmigaOS (at least thats me)

Anyways a used computer isn't bad at all (they aren't going to break anytime soon), it is like people who whine why their gun is all rusted from using corrosive ammo: You didn't take care of it, anything with proper care and maintenance is will last many years.

> X86 or ARM is not the answer, ever. [...] If we drive MorphOS into a bloated OS
> like Windows it will be the shame and folly of every fool who let it get to that.

Porting MorphOS to x86 or ARM will make it a "bloated OS like Windows"? How so? I'm not exactly a proponent of changing ISA (especially to little endian one like x86), but your kind of reasoning is beyond me.

Layer upon layer of backward compatibility? It wouldn't be pretty but it'd probably still have a way to go before it gets as bloated as Windows etc.

> Layer upon layer of backward compatibility?

Let's assume a port of MorphOS to ARM (running in true big endian mode). Then we'd definitely need an m68k emulator. With that we'd have the same complexity we've now on PPC with Trance. About the necessity of a PPC emulator we could argue I'd say. But even if it was decided to have one, I think the m68k emulation layer and the PPC emulation layer would run alongside, not the m68k one on top of the PPC one. What makes operating systems slow is not the sheer amount of layers but the stacking of many layers.