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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > still no more technical details on POWER8 available to the general public.

    "The Power8 chip [...] will have on-chip PCI-Express 3.0 controllers -- something IBM has been sorely lacking this year with the Power7+ chips -- which will put it on par with Intel's Xeon chips. Interestingly, the Power8 chip will get rid of the GX++ InfiniBand links used to plug in external peripheral drawers for Power Systems machines and replace it them something called the Coherently Allocated Processor Interface, or CAPI for short. This is an overlay that will ride atop the PCI-Express 3.0 mechanicals to provide coherent memory addressing for CPUs and external coprocessors like Nvidia GPUs."
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/06/ibm_opens_up_power_chips_armstyle_to_take_on_chipzilla/

    Furthermore, IBM and partners have founded the OpenPOWER Consortium to allow licensing of IBM POWER chip technology (and related technologies):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPOWER_Consortium

    "Google, IBM, Mellanox, NVIDIA and Tyan today announced plans to form the OpenPOWER Consortium -- an open development alliance based on IBM's POWER microprocessor architecture. The Consortium intends to build advanced server, networking, storage and GPU-acceleration technology [...]. The move makes POWER hardware and software available to open development for the first time as well as making POWER IP licensable to others, greatly expanding the ecosystem of innovators on the platform. [...] As part of their initial collaboration within the consortium, NVIDIA and IBM will work together to integrate the CUDA GPU and POWER ecosystems. "The OpenPOWER Consortium brings together an ecosystem of hardware, system software, and enterprise applications that will provide powerful computing systems based on NVIDIA GPUs and POWER CPUs," said Sumit Gupta, general manager of the Tesla Accelerated Computing Business at NVIDIA."
    http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/41684.wss

    "Under the OpenPOWER initiative, IBM will license the core intellectual property for our POWER technologies to other companies [...]. Up until now, IBM primarily used the POWER design in its own servers. This new initiative makes it possible for cloud services and their technology providers to redesign the chips and circuit boards where computing is done -- optimizing the interactions of microprocessors, memory, networking, data storage and other components. As a result, they can get servers that are custom-tuned for their applications. [...] we are licensing the microprocessor technology to other companies openly -- meaning they get to look at the blueprints for the processor and the software that goes with it so they can take full advantage of its capabilities. The cloud service providers will be able to hire IBM or other companies to manufacture the processors and other related chips. [...] this announcement shows our commitment to aggressive investment in our POWER processors and servers. Other innovations will come from our partners."
    http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2013/08/open-and-collaborative-development-is-the-future-of-cloud-computing.html

    "The plan [...] is to open up the intellectual property for the Power architecture and to allow customizations by licensees, just like ARM Holdings has done brilliantly with its ARM processors [...]. "The way the industry is innovating is shifting," says McCredie. "[...] And so we are taking our Power IP, opening it up as well as decomposing it -- the processor, the firmware, all of the key pieces -- to enable people to innovate around Power platforms. [...]" There is a confluence of different factors that have compelled IBM to open up the Power architecture. McCredie said that in the past, system makers of all kinds [...] were content to get the performance or total cost of ownership goals they have for machines by innovating at the motherboard or system level. But now, this is shifting and companies want to innovate at the chip level, particularly as processors, networking, and storage functions are being brought down onto system-on-chip, or SoC, packages [...] with chip etching technologies now sufficiently small that these different components can be put into a single die or within a single package. [...] the basic idea is that IBM will control the Power instruction set, much as ARM Holdings does with the ARM instruction set. In days gone by, people might have wanted to innovate at the instruction set level, but McCredie says this is less important today, and being able to add functions to a Power core (or a collection of them with cache memories and such) is what people want to be able to do. [...] while IBM would love for potential future Power chip designers to use its wafer baker in East Fishkill, New York, that will not be a requirement. Without naming names, McCredie says that IBM will work with consortium members to find alternate fabs for Power chips. [...] Nvidia, which is an ARM licensee, is not about to become a Power licensee, says Sumit Gupta, general manager of the Tesla Accelerated Computing business unit. But Nvidia is very excited about the prospects of marrying Power processors and Nvidia GPUs for both HPC and general purpose systems. [...] "And I personally see this about IBM backing CUDA [...]. They bring a high performance CPU to the party, and we have a high-performance GPU. [...]" [...] The OpenPower Consortium is not restricting the licensing of any particular Power chip technology, but McCredie says that it is really focused on next year's Power8 chip and onwards."
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/06/ibm_opens_up_power_chips_armstyle_to_take_on_chipzilla/

    "IBM [...] will soon begin offering licenses for its venerable Power architecture to other companies, allowing them to build their own Power chips for "servers, networking, and storage devices." [...] "The OpenPOWER Consortium brings together an ecosystem of hardware, system software, and enterprise applications that will provide powerful computing systems based on Nvidia GPUs and Power CPUs," said Sumit Gupta, general manager of the Tesla Accelerated Computing Business at Nvidia, in a statement. IBM and Nvidia will be working together to make the Power architecture and Nvidia's CUDA platform play nicely with one another. The first architecture to be available to licensees will be the upcoming Power8 architecture [...]."
    http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/08/ibm-to-begin-arm-style-licensing-of-power-cpu-architecture/

    "IBM's Openpower Consortium is also an attempt to mirror British semiconductor firm ARM's business model, licensing its technology to system builders and chip suppliers but not manufacturering the chips itself, though the news doesn't mean IBM has plans to stop making its own Power chips. Like ARM it seems that IBM's new alliance is an attempt to break into a growing server niche of energy efficient chips that go into a new breed of servers that save space and minimise power consumption."
    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2287376/ibm-google-and-nvidia-form-openpower-consortium-to-rival-intel-and-amd

    "IBM will license designs of the Power microprocessor architecture to other companies including Google, in an effort to expand use of the architecture and reverse declines in its systems hardware business. Intellectual property of the chip design is being opened up as part of a development alliance called OpenPower Consortium that IBM announced with Google on Tuesday. Consortium members will be able to make Power chips based on architecture designs [...]. [...] The first products from alliance partners could be based on IBM's upcoming Power8 design, said Brad McCredie, vice president and chief technology officer at IBM's Systems and Technology Group (STG), in an interview. [...] In an email statement, Google said the OpenPower Consortium "has the potential to establish Power architecture as a viable option for applications running within Google's datacenters." Google designs its own servers, and the search company could design its own integrated chip -- also called system-on-chip -- based on the Power architecture, said Dean McCarron, principal analyst at Mercury Research. [...] Tyan will be the first company to release a server based on the Power architecture, and said in a statement that the system was projected as an alternative to x86 servers. IBM has also included a feature in Power8 for component makers to easily attach their intellectual property to the chip. More companies will join the alliance in the coming months, McCredie said. Third parties could release new system-on-chips based on Power in a few years, McCredie said, adding that the design cycle lasts two years or more. The Power IP is also being opened up to manufacturers, and IBM will continue to make chips for third parties. [...] IBM's Power architecture brings more reliability, processing power and longevity to servers in cloud deployments, McCredie said, adding that the company is targeting the growing Asia market through the new OpenPower alliance. The Power architecture and chips will continue to be developed for data centers, and likely not go in the direction of smartphone and tablet chips such as Intel's Atom x86 chips or ARM, McCredie said. IBM's Power chip design for servers is not the same as Power designs being used in microcontrollers from companies like Freescale Semiconductor. McCredie said that opening up the Power architecture is also complementary to the Facebook-backed Open Compute Project, which focuses mostly on server designs. IBM has been trying to push the Power architecture into other applications for many years, but rather than growing in opportunity, the market for the chip has been shrinking, said Jim McGregor, principal analyst at Tirias Research. [...] One of the more interesting aspects of OpenPower is IBM and Google partnering with Nvidia, which is tuning its CUDA parallel programming toolkit for Power processors."
    http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/080613-ibm-opens-up-power-design-272589.html
  • »06.08.13 - 22:50
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > still no more technical details on POWER8 available to the general public.
    > And it seems its release has been re-scheduled to "early 2014" [...]
    > the first (to my knowledge) mention of POWER9 by IBM, scheduled for the 2016
    > to 2020 time frame:
    > http://projects.csail.mit.edu/caos/2012-01-25-caos-bgq-v1-ed.pdf (January 2012, page 6)

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9463&forum=3&start=5
  • »27.08.13 - 14:06
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Reminder:

    > Hyperionmp says:
    > "The way in which it will be implemented however is already clearly defined
    > and was subject to peer review by other developers. Obstacles to an
    > efficient implementation were removed (e.g. the use of Forbid) and replaced
    > in many OS components over the years (e.g. DOS). The foundation for
    > SMP support was put in place, a clear picture exists what needs to be done
    > to accomplish it and how. I'm willing to take a bet that it won't take 2 years ;)"
    > http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34171&forum=33&start=40#627520

    It's now 6 days past the "deadline" :-)
  • »09.09.13 - 20:21
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2646 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Reminder:

    It's now 6 days past the "deadline" :-)


    You didn't really expect it to be done 6 days ago, did you?

    Almost all developers have deadlines for projects that are not met, at one time or another. I won't complain about this deadline being missed (specially since I don't even consider it a true deadline, but more of an informal guesstimate made "off the cuff"), and I won't expect any kind of multiple cpu support to be finished for another year or two (if ever).

    My expectations are actually leaning toward AROS on x86/x64 to surpass the current capabilities of both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS3.x within the next 2 years (and I am still hoping that the MorphOS Dev. Team will choose to join the AROS developers, instead of duplicating the effort on two different operating systems). My uneducated guess is that AROS on x86/x64 might have a better chance of incorporating some kind of multiple cpu, or multi-core support before AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS3.x, but there are only a handful of people in the world who actually know what work has already been started, or completed for those systems in that regard.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »13.09.13 - 16:14
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You didn't really expect it to be done 6 days ago, did you?

    True, I did not.

    > I don't even consider it a true deadline

    Me neither, which is why I chose to put the word between quotation marks.
  • »13.09.13 - 17:54
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2604 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Reminder:

    It's now 6 days past the "deadline" :-)


    You didn't really expect it to be done 6 days ago, did you?

    Almost all developers have deadlines for projects that are not met, at one time or another. I won't complain about this deadline being missed (specially since I don't even consider it a true deadline, but more of an informal guesstimate made "off the cuff"), and I won't expect any kind of multiple cpu support to be finished for another year or two (if ever).


    It's called "carrot dangling", and that is what has kept the interest in OS4 afloat the last decade and a half (well not quite, but almost). Many people mocked MorphOS when the effort was started, and by the time it was released on the Pegasos in version 1.0 (the "community split" had already happened by then) they laughed, pointed at missing features and poor stability, questioning its existence since OS4 would be so much better and would soon be released anyway. A year passed. Then another. MorphOS evolved and matured a lot during this time, but OS4 shepherds carefully herded the Amiga horde to stay away from MorphOS during this time, "remember that OS4 is so much better, it has this and this feature, bla bla". Hardware that essentially was the same as the Pegasos (but a lot more expensive and actually flawed) was sold for OS4, and lots of carrots were dangled. Then in 2004(!), the first pre-release of OS4 made its debut. I actually bought myself an AmigaOne XE just to see it with my own eyes. We were many back then who were simply amazed by the poor quality, stability and lack of features. After all said and done about MorphOS during the past years, it was stunning to see what OS4 really turned out to be. Where were all the features? It suddenly became clear that it had all been empty words all the time; nothing but FUD and empty promises. MorphOS was way ahead, and it has stayed that way ever since.

    But the carrot dangling has remained. Not just about SMP; other "features of grandeur" has come and gone over the years. It's always something around the corner. There is always a reason to stay OS4 faithful; things might not be here now but when they arrive, oh man, then things will be great. Like Radeon HD. Some people has been talking for years about how great OS4 is since it supports (or rather will support (or rather may support (or maybe not?))) PCI-E based GFX cards. Some people likes to point out how this is an advantage to OS4. When in reality it's nothing but plain 2D support with no 3D (not only used for games, Ambient for examples uses it, making it a very important feature for your "overall MorphOS experience") or anything similar to overlay support (making it useless or at least very crappy for playing videos, but that's not all overlay is/can be used for). And during all this time, the plain R200 cards in MorphOS machines has provided all this. No waiting, no carrot dangling. It has been there all along. I watched videos and played 3D games, while OS4 people was waiting and waitng. And actually still waits!

    In OS4 world there is always waiting. "It's not here now, but when it gets here, oh man, then things will be great, so much better than MorphOS". There is always something around the corner. Constant carrot dangling. The SMP feature has not taken two years to *not* arrive, in fact it has been on its way many years before that. Highlighting the Hermans comment from two years ago linked to in a post above, is merely a "call the bluff". The feature had been "coming" for some time (years) and Mr. Hermans said with at least some degree of certainty that he bet it wouldn't take two more years before it gets here.

    And it's important to call out these bluffs when you see them and you see them slide away yet again, because those kinds of "features of grandeur" always have a constant sliding deadline, and when deadline slides it seems to do it in silince. No-one notices it. OS4 people doesn't seem willing to talk about it, they look at the dangling carrot, hopes for the best, wait for the great OS4 features to arrive some day while not going anywhere near MorphOS in the mean time, since that OS won't have these "Features of Grandeur".

    So it's important to call out all the bluffs and bullshit on sight. And this Hermans quote about the two year time frame to reach full SMP in OS4 is exactly that; bullshit with a constantly sliding deadline. But it's so easy to stomp this one to the ground, and call the bluff, since SMP simply can't exist in an Amiga environment with preserved Amiga binary compatibility. It can't be done! It was a lie when it stared, it has been a lie when the sold HW/OS products using the lie as a sales argument, it was a lie when Hermans claimed it could be here within (additional from time already passed) two years. Well, that time has passed, nothing is here. And any sliding deadlines from this point, is also lies. Simply because it can't be done, it's all bulshit. But has been great carrot dangling for a couple of years, and a lie to sell hundreds of $3,000+ machines for OS4 that "will have" this feature (which is bullshit since it can't be done).

    FUD, promises, lies, carrot dangling and a lot of waiting. OS4!


    Quote:

    My expectations are actually leaning toward AROS on x86/x64 to surpass the current capabilities of both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS3.x within the next 2 years


    That will be really difficult given the current state (features, maturity, etc) and rate of progress for AROS compared to MorphOS. In fact, it will not happen. That doesn't mean that AROS hasn't got some things MorphOS lack. AROS can be a 64-bit OS AFAIK (easy when you won't have to retain full Amiga binary compatibility though). I also believe there are one or a few drivers for nVidia cards (don't know the state regarding 3D/overlay etc). Probably some other things as well.

    But over all, MorphOS features overshadows AROS so massively that I have seriously difficulties to see how your expectations can come real.


    Quote:

    (and I am still hoping that the MorphOS Dev. Team will choose to join the AROS developers, instead of duplicating the effort on two different operating systems).


    Not going to happen. But just for fun - Why not the other way around? MorphOS is by far the better OS, which it still will be even if you remove the up till now mandatory Amiga binary compatibility requirement hence putting MorphOS in the same category as AROS. Wouldn't it be more logic to focus at developing the best?


    Quote:

    My uneducated guess is that AROS on x86/x64 might have a better chance of incorporating some kind of multiple cpu, or multi-core support before AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS3.x


    True SMP can't be incorporated in Amiga without breaking the Amiga. But if the requirement of Amiga binary backwards compatibility would be removed from MorphOS, then AROS would have no benefit at all. Then it comes down to how many talanted coders each platform has, it comes down to discipline, management and development according to a plan (MorphOS), or fewer coders working in an anarchistic manner according to what they personally think is most fun for the moment. And if you break the backwards compatibility anyway, then why not go all the way and remake the OS itself to be multithreaded and add SMP/multithreading in the proper way? AROS (being a "research OS for fun") is merely investigating the possibility of creating some level of SMP using exec and mostly standard programs. While this is a fun and interesting little experiment, I don't think anything useful will come out of it in the end. If it succeeds all the way (which is not certain), then they will have proven a concept/hypothesis. But they won't have a SMP system that is anywhere near what SMP can be when implemented from scratch, rather a SMP hack squezed into exec using a shoehorn, force and vaseline for proving some kind of point.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »13.09.13 - 23:16
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
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    > I also believe there are one or a few drivers for nVidia cards (don't know the state regarding
    > 3D/overlay etc).

    AROS has Nouveau with Gallium3D and Mesa.
  • »14.09.13 - 00:24
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2646 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    All those points of view and opinions of yours, true or not, may be important to you, but they are not important to me.

    And unless you have been recently added to the MorphOS Dev. Team, I doubt you know what their plans are for the future.

    I enjoy using both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS3.x, but currently believe that MorphOS3.2 is clearly more advanced and enjoyable to use. Other people prefer AmigaOS4.x, and i have no problem with their choice to use what ever they want, or to wait how ever long they want for future features and software.

    As for AROS and MorphOS joining forces, I don't care how it happens, or which name they choose to work under, but my hope remains that they do join forces some day and the best time for them to do so, would be when the MorphOS Dev. Team decides to begin work on the x86/x64 platform.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »14.09.13 - 00:33
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    Jim
    Posts: 4860 from 2009/1/28
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    IF, that should be IF "the MorphOS Dev. Team decides to begin work on the x86/x64 platform"

    As you pointed out David, none of us know what is in store.

    I am enjoying the current focus on PPC platforms.

    [ Edited by Jim 15.09.2013 - 05:19 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.09.13 - 04:18
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2604 from 2003/2/24
    @amigadave

    The carrot dangling has probably caused more damage than you understand, it still continues, and when they do it for obvious impossible features like SMP as a way to shift ridiculously priced products that's supposed to use this feature, then it turns pure ugly. It's not about being "positive", "forgiving" or "generous of sliding deadlines"; FUD, foul play and deceit has been a red line throughout OS4's entire existence and if you don't call out on the bluffs, or indeed the *blatant lies*, then there will be no incentive for them to stop, and they will continue with this behavior. And some people will never understand that they have been fooled, they'll just continue limping on trying to catch the carrot (that occasionally is replaced by another carrot). Ben Hermans isn't selling an existing product, he is selling a list of dreams and promises that is *always* "around the corner", but *never* arrives. And delivering SMP with retained Amiga compatibility would have been impossible even if they had paid the developers who made OS4 in the first place, and it won't exactly be easier without it.

    When it comes to this constant discussion about "cooperation" - MorphOS has on a few occasions used AROS code, and AFAIK also returned their improvements to AROS. Right now I don't think AROS has a lot to offer that MorphOS needs. And MorphOS developers seems to like to develop *their* OS, the AROS developers seems to like to develop *theirs*. Obviously, because that's what they are doing. Right? And they have the right to do so. This isn't an issue for "democratic polling", so debates around it is kind of redundant. AROS was started long before MorphOS, and the reason to why MorphOS was started despite AROS already existed was because someone (like the MorphOS developers) thought that AROS wasn't the answer, they wanted to do their own OS. AROS is an unmanaged, anarchistic body that grows spontaneously (sometimes in strange areas) and without a central plan, discipline or order. AROS is fun for those involved, no doubt. But MorphOS came a lot further in much shorter time. Let's just face it - there are fundamental differences between them both, not just technical, but also in the view of methodology. IMHO this is not a bad thing, rather the opposite. There is room for both, I think there is a need for both (somewhat different needs though), and had both been the same, then one had been redundant.


    @Jim
    Quote:

    I am enjoying the current focus on PPC platforms.


    It's not a matter of "enjoying the current focus on PPC platforms", it's a matter whether or not you want MorphOS to continue in the future as well, or if all the effort should be thrown away and be left floating away down the stream of history. PPC is clearly dead (or since we still can get machines as second hand, maybe the definition can be allowed to slide to "dying"). Acube and Aeon has clearly made a point that it's impossible to build modern (or at leasnt semi-modern (or at least not ancient)) machines at a reasonable price and create a sustainable market that can evolve (without it, there is no point). MorphOS soon supports every single PPC system worth supporting. The MorphOS team has certainly made the best of the situation, but is about to reach the outer boundaries of what PPC has to offer. This has been coming for several years already. Soon owners of old Mac PPC HW (totally unaware of the "massive" MorphOS market as they are) will start thinking it's not even worth the effort of putting up the old PPC gear for sale anymore, but simply put it in the trash. It's soon a *decade* since Apple declared they will abandon PPC and they haven't released new OS versions for it for some time now. And technology dies, of old age if for no other reason. Everything ends. PPC on desktop/laptop kind of ended in 2005. The path MorphOS is currently travelling on is only going in one direction. It's something inevitable, and not a matter of debate.

    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 15.09.2013 - 18:18 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.09.13 - 15:54
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
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    > MorphOS soon supports every single PPC system worth supporting.

    Does "soon" allude to the announced Sam460 port? Btw, as that thread shows, certain yet unsupported iMac G5 models are apparently deemed worth supporting by some people, as is the last PowerMac G5 (late 2005) generation.
  • »15.09.13 - 18:12
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2646 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    @takemehomegrandma,

    I am not debating anything, only expressing my own opinions and hopes for the future. And in my opinion, both AROS and MorphOS would progress faster if they combined forces and decided to work toward a common goal, no matter what they decided to call it, or who was put in charge of managing it. Obviously, more organization than is currently present with AROS, would be a good thing.

    All your talk in "absolutes" is laughable. You have a very narrow point of view and cannot see your way out of your paper bag. I also don't see how any of your years of "calling Ben Hermans' bluffs" has made one bit of difference in how Hyperion behaves. I also believe that anyone who chooses to use AmigaOS4.x or any other operating system without first researching all aspects of its features, hardware it runs on, and history of the company behind it, well then they deserve exactly what they get and should not complain when the promises are not kept, or features never arrive.

    Why you think it is your job to try to protect all these ignorant users from making a mistake, or being fooled by Ben Hermans is very amusing. MorphOS is a good enough operating system to stand on its own merits when compared to AmigaOS4.x, or AROS, so there is no reason to mention failed promises, or lack of features of any other operating system, when you can just point out the positive aspects of MorphOS to potential new users and let them choose if it is the right choice for them. That is the approach I take at each AmiWest Show, and it has worked very well for the last 5 or 6 years.

    Edit:

    I will even go further and state that I know many users who have been turned off by your and other peoples negative campaign against Hyperion, Ben Hermans and AmigaOS4.x in general, to the point that they will never consider even looking at what MorphOS has to offer. You and others will counter that it is "Good", or perfectly acceptable to lose such people and we don't need them as members of the MorphOS community, but what if just one, or several of those people turned away are talented programmers, who might have contributed some useful software for our platform of choice?

    That is all I have to say on this topic, as it is useless to debate such things with someone who has such opposing ideas to my own. You will go on doing what you do, and I will continue as I have done in the past years, trying to make friends with other AmigaOS4.x users and programmers and show them what MorphOS3.x is capable of doing.

    As for Henes comment that everyone who does not denounce Ben Hermans, or Hyperion being a criminal, is then an accomplice to what ever he has done, you are joking, aren't you? I don't defend their choices or policies, I don't like many things they have done or said, and I don't agree how they manage their business, but that is their (or his) decision and choices which they (he) have to live with. In my own opinion, Ben Hermans is driving AmigaOS4.x straight into the ground and destroying what little is left of the future for AmigaOS4.x systems, and he will never let go the control he now owns, until his dying breath. But that is just my own opinion and counts for nothing toward what they will, or will not do in the future. He is the architect behind acquiring the rights to controlling AmigaOS4.x development, so there is nothing anyone else can do about what decisions are now made.

    [ Edited by amigadave 16.09.2013 - 16:29 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »15.09.13 - 20:26
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1938 from 2003/2/24
    amigadave,
    Quote:

    Obviously, more organization than is currently present with AROS, would be a good thing.


    I would say evidence suggest that most AROS-devs are AROS-devs and not MorphOS or 0S4-devs mainly because they don't want to "get organized".

    Still doesn't mean that code couldn't flow between AROS and MorphOS on specific projects.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »15.09.13 - 20:36
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    Henes
    Posts: 498 from 2003/6/14
    Quote:

    Why you think it is your job to try to protect all these ignorant users from making a mistake, or being fooled by Ben Hermans is very amusing.

    My moral tells me that not denouncing a criminal act is being its accounplice.

    The world will never have enough idealists.


    [ Edited by Henes 15.09.2013 - 23:21 ]
  • »15.09.13 - 21:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > This computer is still a paperware for now

    New information on the P-Cubed from one week ago:

    "we are currently finalizing pricing and availability for both the CTS-1000 and P-Cubed at this time. [...] The current plan for the P-Cubed is an single ethernet port."
    http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-ppc/2013-09/msg00012.html

    ...and some older ones from 1.5 months ago that confirm Krashan's "paperware" comment:

    "sometimes things get placed on the back burner. I can assure you, it's not dead. We are looking at places to finish the BOM and produce some initial boards."
    http://ben-collins.blogspot.com/2012/11/servergy-announces-new-powerpc.html?showComment=1376435397591#c5701107643233468404
  • »28.09.13 - 15:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > SATA controllers on P5 must be enabled, thus x4 x4 x1 x1 PCIe config is best

    Seems like that's exactly the PCIe configuration A-Eon is using on the Cyrus board:

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38284&forum=2&start=100#719786

    (One x4 will have x16 slot, just like done on Sam460ex, only that with QorIQ P5 it's PCIe 2.0 instead of PCIe 1.x with PPC460EX. This also means PCIe bandwidth for graphics on Cyrus is half that of Nemo's PCIe 1.x x16.)
  • »21.10.13 - 00:37
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > "we are currently finalizing pricing and availability for both the CTS-1000 and P-Cubed
    > at this time. [...] The current plan for the P-Cubed is an single ethernet port."
    > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-ppc/2013-09/msg00012.html

    P4080-based CTS-1000 has been officially launched:
    http://www.servergy.com/servergy-launches-new-class-of-servers/

    Meanwhile, all traces of the P-Cubed seem to have been removed from http://www.servergy.com.
  • »21.10.13 - 22:41
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    Meanwhile, all traces of the P-Cubed seem to have been removed from http://www.servergy.com.


    Just noticed this myself - google's search results even still show page hits, but even the orginal news release (October 2010) has been removed.
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
    HTPC: Mac Mini G4 (1,5GHz, 64MB VRam): OS3.1 (ZVNC)
    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »23.10.13 - 16:40
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    boot_wb wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    Meanwhile, all traces of the P-Cubed seem to have been removed from http://www.servergy.com.


    Just noticed this myself - google's search results even still show page hits, but even the orginal news release (October 2010) has been removed.


    As yet no reply from Chris Rains to the e-mail I sent asking for clarification/update on the status of my pre-order enquiry.
    AFter completing the form I was sent an e-mail stating I would be on the pre-order list 'soon',, however this was never followed up with any progress.

    I strongly suspect either it was a prospective 'test' of the potential market for such a product, or (more cynically) a tool to boost Servergy's value on paper.
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
    HTPC: Mac Mini G4 (1,5GHz, 64MB VRam): OS3.1 (ZVNC)
    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »24.10.13 - 12:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I strongly suspect either it was a prospective 'test' of the potential market for
    > such a product, or (more cynically) a tool to boost Servergy's value on paper.

    Yes, given that they apparently didn't even have a prototype board as late as August (i.e. 9 months after the announcement), there's certainly something fishy there.
  • »24.10.13 - 13:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > True SMP can't be incorporated in Amiga without breaking the Amiga.

    ssolie says this:

    "X-Kernel Update
    [...]
    - All cores schedule tasks independently
    - Load balancing between cores
    "
    http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1010

    "Cyrus just happens to use the x-kernel exclusively unlike the X1000 which can run either kernel. At some point we'll merge the two kernel streams together of course."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38284&forum=2&start=300#720698

    Well, let's see...
  • »30.10.13 - 21:12
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2604 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > True SMP can't be incorporated in Amiga without breaking the Amiga.

    ssolie says this:

    "X-Kernel Update
    [...]
    - All cores schedule tasks independently
    - Load balancing between cores
    "
    http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1010

    "Cyrus just happens to use the x-kernel exclusively unlike the X1000 which can run either kernel. At some point we'll merge the two kernel streams together of course."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38284&forum=2&start=300#720698

    Well, let's see...


    :lol:

    Yeah, "merge the two kernel streams together"... :lol:

    I don't even know where to start on that statement, it's ... surreal! Does he have a clue at all? "Merging kernel streams", I mean, WTF? What? Why? How? One is obviuosly the old "Exec SG" made by the Friedens (made for the OS4 which aims to be Amiga compatible), the new one (wonder who is doing that one BTW, maybe ssolie himself?) is SMP enabled and thus incompatible to the Amiga environment! "Merge" these?

    "Well, let's see" indeed! :lol:

    Well, after all, this is "ssolie", the man who "has an amazing grasp of Amiga programming, so much so that he has re-written the 'C' language to make it more Amiga efficient"!

    So who knows? ;-)

    :lol:
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »31.10.13 - 10:47
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2604 from 2003/2/24
    ...also interesting to see that the "Cyrus" will *only* run the new SMP enabled kernel, and *not* the Amiga compatible one! :-o

    Now I just hope that they choose to call these Amiga incompatible systems "A3000" or "A5000" or such, because then the irony couldn't possibly become bigger!

    :lol:
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »31.10.13 - 10:58
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "Cyrus" will *only* run the new SMP enabled kernel, and *not* the Amiga compatible one!

    He used present tense there, not future tense.
  • »31.10.13 - 11:20
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10660 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > To me it seems that T2080 could be pretty good PA6T replacement.

    Sampling now:

    http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1871882
  • »05.11.13 - 01:14
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