Quote:

I think the term "is in production" gives an erroneous picture of a manufacturing plant with a long conveyor belt, that spits out products around the clock, day out day in, week after week. That's not really the case in Amigaland, where production is made in small batches whenever demand/orders reaches a certain threshold and/or it's decided at all worthwhile.

Acube announced the "termination" of the Sam 440ep, but in the same announcement (or in a forum comment, I can't remember) they also stipulated that, sure, they could make another production run if only they would get an order for 30 units or more (this seems to be their threshold for starting up the "conveyor belt". BTW, in the same sense Genesi/bPlan could easily make another batch of Efikas, but it won't happen). So if you look at it that way, OS4 has four options (if you count the "X1000"). My point is that once OS4 is announced/released for the Sam 460, they will hardly sell another 30 units of the 440, but most certainly *only* units from the 460 batch, which makes the term "in production" not quite accurate perhaps?

And will the "X1000" really get here? Who knows, but I have my doubts. I think it's most realistic that we in one year from now will see a 440 *or* a 460 based board for sale from Acube to Amigans (has OS4 been officially confirmed for the 460 yet BTW?), but that will be the only *single* option for OS4.

In a year from now, MorphOS will probably be available for Mac Mini, PowerMac and PowerBook, and there will still be plenty of PPC based Macs in the second hand market by then.

> Acube announced the "termination" of the Sam 440ep, but in the same announcement
> (or in a forum comment, I can't remember) they also stipulated that, sure, they could make
> another production run if only they would get an order for 30 units or more

Yes, it's even on their website:

"Availability: Sam440ep is available only under bulk orders, minimum quantity 30 boards."
http://www.sam4x0.com/sam440ep.html

Note that the Sam440ep-flex page states: "Availability: now". So there should be a difference between Sam440ep and Sam440ep-flex regarding availability. I conclude that in case of the Sam440ep *one single* order must at least contain 30 units to start production, whereas in case of Sam440ep-flex the number of orders that reach the threshold for production start is irrelevant as long as the threshold is met in sum. In light of the small numbers in Amiga market that makes for a difference I guess.

> My point is that once OS4 is announced/released for the Sam 460, they will hardly sell
> another 30 units of the 440, but most certainly *only* units from the 460 batch, which
> makes the term "in production" not quite accurate perhaps?

So let's wait for the announcement of "termination" of the Sam440ep-flex once the Sam460ex is out. I guess the Sam460ex won't replace the Sam440ep-flex in the same sense the Sam440ep-flex didn't replace the Sam440ep ;-)

> has OS4 been officially confirmed for the 460 yet BTW?

From 5 days ago:

"Hyperion Entertainment is very pleased that these two options will be availble to AmigaOS users."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31239&forum=4&start=60#550719

Maybe there are more recent statements by now. I don't know.

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards any Amiga related new PPC HW developments.

What's the plan for MOS compatible HW future?

(Especially after the reverse engineering of every liguid cooled G5 PPC macintosh.)

And in the meanwhile, when is it expected to have MOS running on a 2Ghz HW? SMP? AMP?

(ok, ok, SMP happen sooner on MOS than on AOS (if you ask any MOS team member), but any schedule/roadmap?)

[ Edited by KimmoK on 2010/4/10 19:09 ]

[ Edited by KimmoK on 2010/4/10 19:10 ]

[ Edited by KimmoK on 2010/4/10 19:12 ]

Quote:

Maybe it's just that most of it seems quite underwhelming in comparison to the hardware MorphOS is already running on?

Quote:

AFAIK there are Powermac G4 cards at 2 GHz available...
Anyway the question is not when will MorphOS run on this or that, but when is MorphOS capable of doing current things. How about hd video? 720p works nice on my MorphOS Mac mini. Or what about youtube html5? It works pretty nice on my set up now. These are the things that matter, not the actual clock rate.
But generally speaking faster hardware is of course always interesting. But while the Sam 460 is a step into the right direction it is not too intersting IMHO. Way too little cpu power for that price. For 250 EUR it would start to get interesting.

> AFAIK there are Powermac G4 cards at 2 GHz available...

"When it comes to 3rd party add-ons it's very unlikely they will be supported from the beginning, or even at all (unless some 3rd party does the drivers). This includes the add-on CPU cards."
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6990&forum=11#71891

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:16 ]

Sure, and I didn't even mention performance, but thanks for bringing it up.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:39 ]

Lets say price/performance ratio then, the original efika while not having spectacular performance was at least cheap.

Addendum:

> MPC7448 @ 2.0 GHz (overclocked) vs. one core of PA6T-1682M @ 2.0 GHz would
> be an interesting comparison.

Now we know it's 1.8 GHz, not 2.0 GHz:

http://www.a-eon.com/x1000.html

Interesting, but they still make some secrecy about the cpu. And the page design... Well, taste differs. At least there is some kind of website now.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:37 ]

> You don't need that stuff for iBrowse or Frogger video player or UAE or
> whatever people use OS4 for now.

They mainly haven't been using IBrowse and surely not Frogger anymore for years because they have OWB, MPlayer and DVPlayer. And E-UAE for PPC being JIT-less can't have enough CPU power anyway.

> Does the X1000 represent a master plan to restart the Amiga ray-tracing market?

Why not? Blender is rather demanding.

> That thing probably will [...] consume lots of watts.

From the old A-Eon site:
"it's a dual-core Power Architecture CPU, with a very low Thermal Design Point."
...whatever value that should mean specifically.

> Acube's machines have seemed [...] Pegasos-like to me

Would they have been released 6 years ago, maybe. As 2007 and later released machines they're for my taste much too weak compared to Pegasos. I'm sure that the Pegasos II G4 will wipe the floor even with the yet to be released Sam460ex, and that'll be nearly 7 years after the release of the former.

> this X1000 from A-Eon "high-end" thing is not appealing at all.

...to you, that is.

Quote:

Sure, probably that CPU (which A-Eon childishly keep "secret") will be one of the least consuming components. The remaining will sure suck a lot of watts.

Overall, this "X-1000" computer is much too complex for the sort of things one can do with it. Let's see how many buy into that "Amiga" brand, because they make clear that's its main attraction.

Adding an XMOS chip with a silly new name is not brilliant engineering. Chances are that chip will stay idle forever, unless a very specific use is planned, and the corresponding software done.

The positive note? That, this time, the new computer does exist, and will be seen in public very soon. A first appeareance of a new computer, in a vintage computer show.

[ Edited by jcmarcos on 2010/4/15 14:03 ]

> that CPU (which A-Eon childishly keep "secret")

"the NDA is [...] incorporated into the CPU supply agreement."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31001&forum=2&start=160#546725

If this NDA really exists, I wouldn't call the secrecy childish.

> The remaining will sure suck a lot of watts.

That would mainly be the southbridge, which is rumoured to be the AMD SB600.

@all
Hi, news about MorphOS 2.5 ? :) :) ...sorry but It's more interesting then Sam and X1000 :) :)

> news about MorphOS 2.5 ? :) :) ...sorry but It's more interesting then Sam and X1000 :) :)

Then stop pushing this thread and keep pushing that one instead :-P

Quote:

That supposed NDA makes it even MORE childish. It's just another attempt at making it more interesting, with a supposed secrecy that adds a much needed fascination touch.

When you attempt to build a computer, you source desired components looking plainly at price and availability. If there's secrecy around any of them, that can only be bad, as it's just obstacles in a very, very complex race.

Come on, can't they source a CPU that's simply available, without any bullshit? It's just this amigan thinking again: "Look, we chose a weird CPU, because we're so cool we can't use a common one. It's so cool that we were forced to sing a secrecy contract with blood".

So we have to believe that a serious CPU manufacturer does choose, for its new product, a completely unknown company to make an almost unmarketable motherboard.

Quote:
Got any suitable recommendations?

Quote:
Why do you believe it is a serious CPU manufacturer?

Oh and btw... the bullshit angle seems to work well enough for other companies.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:36 ]

Quote:

I can't believe one has to sign an NDA to source a CPU for a new design. What makes me ill is that it's supposed to add an amigan edge to the project, like "gee, we'll be using a secret weapon nobody else has".
I thought amigans had grown enough to avoid the kind of plays. Is that secret going to impress anyone? Sure: Me. But for the negative part.

Quote:



On the other side, I had a look at A-Eon's revamped site, and had a wonderful long time reading the fantastic history behind the XMOS chip added to the X1000 (the only thing that makes it interesting).

That chip heralds back to the mythical INMOS Transputer, which sets the reader back to the eighties, the golden computer age when things were, actually, way more interesting and risky than now.

In one of the most convoluted twists in Amiga history, a revelation comes: The new Amiga X1000 is "the same" as an Atari Transputer Workstation!

Atari_Transputer.jpg

> you obviously really want to talk with me because you keep responding to my comments

You must be some kind of super-genius to come to that conclusion.

> even though I've made it clear that I really don't want to talk with you

But you do, don't you?

> you're an insulting, distasteful, tricky, anal-retentive human webspider.

That made me laugh, really :-D

> And a false accuser

You mean like TeleRead's Chris Meadows?

> who said I'm a liar but never did give any intelligible or genuine example.

I did, numerous times. It's just that you're not able to grasp, and you often don't remember what you wrote just before, which makes arguing with you a PITA. But I won't give up.

> You're deceptive and tricky.

False.

> For example in the other recent thread you intentionally misconstrue my comment
> about the 5121e that I point out as having 256 megs RAM as referring to the chip alone,
> when it was clear I referred to the board.

Why am I not surprised that you don't grasp my well-meant explanation of your misconception? Well, let's try once more:
There is no "the board" in regard to the MPC5121e . You didn't even say which MPC5121e equipped board you were referring to. In fact, there are *numerous* MPC5121e equipped boards with *different* amounts of RAM. So it just makes no sense stating that "the 5121e [has] double the RAM of Efika" like you did.

> It's tricky and deceptive, and intended to be annoying, i.e. trolling.

I just enlightened you about your misconception.

> you'll come back with some long-winded tricky babble that no-one but you
> understands

We both know that you don't understand what I write because you don't even read my answers properly. You even confessed that back in October.

> then hopefully I'll go back to ignoring you

We'll see.

> I should have said "that's idiotic" as Blender is available for modern PCs and there's
> no reason but masochism to try to start a ray-tracing business using Blender and
> an X1000 running OS4.

It's not about ray-tracing businesses to use OS4 but about OS4 users to be able to do ray-tracing without having to run the computation overnightly.

> That's marketing speak for the CPU and doesn't tell us or indicate whether the
> X1000 altogether will use a lot of watts

Yes, I just wanted to point out that the CPU has the minor part in that, provided A-Eon's statement holds true. So if the X1000 will use "lot of watts", then in conclusion the southbridge (probably AMD SB600), providing for the board I/O, and the gfx card will have to have the main part in watts usage.

> I'm sure you'll want to debate at length now exactly how many watts I mean by "a lot."

Wrong.

> I mean relative to other Amiga-like-OS hardware like Pegasos, Efika, Sam,
> various A1 versions, and PPC Mac mini.

Efika and Sam are economical in comparison to Nemo, that's for sure. But they're also much much weaker. We'll see how Nemo will compare to Pegasos II G4, AmigaOne-XE G4 and Mac mini G4 regarding power usage. Nemo will probably be hungrier (even when taking the gfx card, which is interchangeable in two of the three comparing machines, off the equation) but I think it's not sure that by much. Nemo mainly has CPU and southbridge, the others have CPU, northbridge and southbridge.

> I said "to me" in that sentence [...]
> I was making a statement of personal opinion.

Fair enough. My bad.

> clipped out the middle of it for no good reason to replace with your ellipsis

Huh? That's just because I didn't want to argue about "coolness" but only about the alleged Pegasos-likeness.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:15 ]

Quote:

It's most certainly the Titan from Intrinsity/AMCC (what else can it be?). I'd say they are serious...