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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    kolla
    Posts: 105 from 2003/4/22
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    @kolla:

    Any features you'd like to see in SSHCon ?


    Sure, plenty.
    * merge the server "bookmarks" with /progdir/conf/config (or whatever it is), gui for all the options (X11, port forwarding, compression, keepalive etc)
    * creation and management of user keys through the gui
    * management of known_hosts via the gui
    * unicode input methods, and improved unicode support in general - I have yet to see it work properly
    * ssh-agent - allow user to open keys and have promptfree logons without storing any passwords in config files (probably impossible to implement on amiga systems)
    * hook scp and sftp into ambient, browsing and filemanagement of remote filesystems

    SSHCon is not an ssh client thought, it is just a wrapper around openssh, openssh is ok for "serious" stuff, but a lot of it doesnt make sense on amiga systems. Tunnelling should be possible though, I suppose, nice for those that need something akin to VPN.
    -- kolla
  • »07.04.10 - 22:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11630 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Any previously-owned Mac mini PPC will [...] run twice as well.

    In case "well" also includes "fast":
    I think it's a save bet to say that the X1000 will run faster than Mac mini PPC.

    > And not be a pain in the butt with system building and set-up

    According to A-Eon, the X1000 will only be sold as complete system, i.e. full setup including OS4 pre-installed.
  • »07.04.10 - 23:12
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I'm not worried about the X1000 processing capability. It's the PCIe video slot and the support for newer video cards (then we have) that bothers me.
    I'm sure if I bought a 2.0 GHz 7448 processor for my Powermac, it wouid esily outperform the X1000 (at a lot lower cost).
    I'm just hoping we can keep up with AOS in terms of video support.

    Oh, BTW, I have an XMOS based development board and I see no advantage to the implementation they're making with the X1000 (Xena). XMOS processor are better suited to creating devices that, in the past, would have required specialized chips. I'm currently working on a improved intelligent UART and PIA design to update an older controller board I have. I don't understand A-EON's intent (with their XENA design).

    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/4/8 0:39 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.04.10 - 23:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11630 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I'm not worried about the X1000 processing capability. [...] I'm sure if I bought a 2.0 GHz
    > 7448 processor for my Powermac, it wouid esily outperform the X1000

    MPC7448 @ 2.0 GHz (overclocked) vs. one core of PA6T-1682M @ 2.0 GHz would be an interesting comparison. It might not come out as clearly as you think, maybe even the opposite way :-)

    > I see no advantage to the implementation they're making with the X1000 (Xena).
    > [...] I don't understand A-EON's intent (with their XENA design).

    Here I'm completely with you. XCore/Xena on Nemo makes no sense to me. Their intention might be to offer something they can pretend to be resembling the old Amiga custom chips in philosophy (see Hyperion stating that Xena, "in true Amiga tradition, provides the AmigaOne X1000 with a custom chipset"), which I consider misleading.
  • »07.04.10 - 23:56
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2681 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    @ kolla

    As for merging and extra options, it can certainly be done. Also the creation of user keys. known_hosts management would require changes in the OpenSSH itself, which I'd pretty much would like to avoid. As for Unicode input - there are places to ask for help if you cannot get it to work yourself (mzone, mailing lists).

    I don't see how ssh-agent would be impossible, it just wouldn't be as safe as on *nix. That doesn't really belong to the SSHCon project though. Same goes for scp/sftp - this is totally unrelated to SSHCon itself. And finally, same goes for tunneling / VPN.
  • »08.04.10 - 09:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2031 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    Velcro_SP wrote:
    Quote:

    1280x1024 is not okay for my 24" TFT which does 1920x1200 ;-)


    itix, out of curiosity what's the monitor do when you set it to that? Explode?


    Have you ever used a 5:4 resolution on an 8:5 format? Or any non-native resolution on a tft? It looks ugly and stupid. It would almost make explode *me*. Today's monitors are mainly full hd or 1680x1650 px.
    The 1280x1024 resolution is of course okay as long as you use 17" or 19" monitors that were popular until recently. But the market has shifted and while my good old 1280x1024 px monitor is still nicely working (still hooked up to my old Peg) I don't want to shwitch back from my 24" now.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »08.04.10 - 09:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2031 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    Jim wrote:
    BTW - Did anyone else look at the posting Andreas mentioned? They're hoping to get hardware acceleration on the R600 series working soon (under AOS 4.1).


    They *hope* a lot. They hope to get usb 2.0 soon, they hope to get firefox soon, they hope to get the X1000 before summer, they hope since ages and while after ages some hopes eventually get fulfilled uncounted new hopes arised already.
    Not to say it will be impossible to see R600 hw accereration, but I don't give a flying -BEEP- on *hopes*. During my many, many years on Amiga and MorphOS I learned that it only matters what actually *is* available, not what will come in some uncertain and promised future.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »08.04.10 - 09:41
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:25 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »08.04.10 - 11:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2031 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    Velcro_SP wrote:
    Quote:

    Have you ever used a 5:4 resolution on an 8:5 format? Or any non-native resolution on a tft? It looks ugly and stupid.


    Those aren't really precise technical terms, Zylesea. Are you saying it looks awkwardly blocky and elongated? Uneven?




    The aspect doesn't fit any more. The pixels aren't quadratic any more. Also everything becomes unsharp, because there are more real pixels than delivered pixels, thus the pixels must get stretched. The benefit of the high precision is void with a tft when operated in another resolution than the native one (except you accept black bars or use the n-th fraction on the native resolution).
    long short: You're doing yourself a favour if you don't operate a 1280x1024px resolution on a display that doesn't fit exactly this resolution natively. But thechnically it works of course.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »08.04.10 - 11:36
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2071 from 2003/2/24
    @Jim

    Neither MorphOS nor OS4 currently fully support all the features of the Radeon92xx and below, OS4 doesn't even supporet everything a Voodoo can do (not sure about MorphOS). 3D and 2D drivers on Radeon92xx are way ahead in MorphOS compared to OS4. Hard to "keep up with AOS" under those terms.

    The only problem for MorphOS & GFX I see are:

    - cards can (will soon) only be bought used
    - no decent way to go beyond 1920x1200 as MorphOS does not support DualLink DVI and no supported card has HDMI
  • »08.04.10 - 14:55
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Dreamcast270mhz
    Posts: 152 from 2009/12/9
    From: Virginia,USA
    I would like to see support for the 9700 and 9800 because I'm upgrading my old 9k to one and I want to use this card in MOS, even if its 2D
    My Macs:
    Powerbook G4 ALU 1.5GHZ 15" 1.5GB OSX.5.8
    Powermac G4 MDD 1.5GHZ OSX.5.8 MOS2.7

    Want a part for a Mac? Let me know, I'll see what I can do.

    Amithlon is amazing, questions and help I can provide.
  • »08.04.10 - 15:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11630 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 1680x1650 px.

    Strange resolution ;-)
  • »08.04.10 - 15:32
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    kolla
    Posts: 105 from 2003/4/22
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    @ kolla

    As for merging and extra options, it can certainly be done. Also the creation of user keys. known_hosts management would require changes in the OpenSSH itself, which I'd pretty much would like to avoid.

    Hm, no? All that is needed is an "editor" for known_hosts, to add (ssh-keyscan) and remove entries, a bonus would be to also display fingerprints (ssh-keyscan -l, -v etc) for each of them.

    As it is currently, one has to edit known_hosts with a text editor if for example a host changes keys (not saying that it's a good thing that hosts do that, but it happens).

    Quote:

    I don't see how ssh-agent would be impossible, it just wouldn't be as safe as on *nix.


    OK, but the implementation would have to be rather different I imagine, due to lack of socket files etc?

    Quote:

    That doesn't really belong to the SSHCon project though. Same goes for scp/sftp - this is totally unrelated to SSHCon itself. And finally, same goes for tunneling / VPN.


    Exactly why I didnt count in "SSHCon" as an "ssh client" - it is "just" a dedicated console handler for the real ssh client, openssh.

    So I'll just say it again - MorphOS also lacks a "serious" ssh client, pointing fingers at OS4 here doesnt make much sense, the differences are rather marginal, IMO. It would be really cool with ssh put into a library or something, that apps can use to access remote resources, for example for browsing, maybe even sshmounting etc.

    A usefull thing that I suppose should be easy to implement in SSHCon is cluster feature, sending the same input to multiple consoles at once.

    [ Edited by kolla on 2010/4/8 19:51 ]
    -- kolla
  • »08.04.10 - 17:46
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote "MPC7448 @ 2.0 GHz (overclocked) vs. one core of PA6T-1682M @ 2.0 GHz would be an interesting comparison. It might not come out as clearly as you think, maybe even the opposite way :-)"

    Is that the processor they're using? I thought from the listed specs (running at 1.6) that they were using a Titan based processor. The last time I contacted someone making a PA Semi based board, they were having trouble obtaining the processors.
    If they are indeed using that processor, then you're right, it would dust a 7448. However, when you think about it, neither MorphOS or AOS requires anywhere near the processing power of either processor.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.04.10 - 19:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11630 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Is that the processor they're using?

    They didn't name it yet, but the hints are aiming closer and closer at the PA6T. See below.

    > I thought from the listed specs (running at 1.6) that they were using a Titan based
    > processor.

    From the A-Eon Q&A #3 which I already referred to in this thread:

    * "The A1-X1000's BIOS is the Common Firmware Environment, or CFE."

    My find regarding this:
    "The Electra board comes with a Common Firmware Environment (CFE) boot monitor loaded into the flash memory. CFE is used to initialize the CPUs, caches, memory controllers, and other peripherals on the PA6T-1682M device."
    http://web.archive.org/web/20070821022508/http://pasemi.com/processors/pwr_evaluation_kit.html

    * "To date all A1-X1000 motherboards have used CPU Samples and to avoid potential damage we have not run the CPU to its maximum rating."

    My comment regarding this:
    We had already known that the tests were run at 1.6 GHz but it was also said that this wasn't the CPU's nominal clock frequency. Some suspected the nominal speed to be below 1.6 GHz (hinting at APM83290/Titan) while others (including me) above 1.6 GHz (hinting at PA6T). Now, thanks to above statement from Q&A #3, we *know* that the nominal clock speed is indeed *above* 1.6 GHz, ruling APM83290/Titan out.

    > The last time I contacted someone making a PA Semi based board, they were having
    > trouble obtaining the processors.

    Regarding the CPU, A-Eon told: "It's quite a story, actually..."
    That would fit the PA6T quite well.
  • »08.04.10 - 20:08
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    mobydick
    Posts: 179 from 2004/2/26
    From: Mordor, capita...
    I think... If (if!) A1-X1000 will be released and if (if) it will be equipped with the PA6 - can we expect MorphOS for this board?

    (Yes, i read the pega-1's statement about Ben Hermanns, but... )
    Pegasos II/G4@1GHz, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9
    Efika MX Smartbook, Ubuntu 12.04
    peguser.narod.ru
  • »08.04.10 - 20:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11630 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > can we expect MorphOS for this board? (Yes, i read the pega-1's statement
    > about Ben Hermanns, but... )

    More recent statements from pega-1 about chances of MorphOS for X1000 (German):

    http://www.pegasosforum.de/viewtopic.php?p=43637#p43637 (3 days ago)
    http://www.pegasosforum.de/viewtopic.php?p=43672#p43672 (2 days ago)

    Quick'n'dirty translation:

    "It's extremely improbable that further exotic hardware will ever be supported by MorphOS again. Personally, I'd even completely rule out this possibility. Regarding Sam460ex and X1000 we're talking about approx. a couple hundred boards. Minus the buyers who wouldn't purchase MorphOS for it on principle, that's not worth the hassle... [...] In case your Sam460ex or X1000 breaks you'll probably have a hard time getting a replacement. The value of having warranty on such hardware could be observed by looking at Eyetech's AmigaOnes..."
    "With any of the devices neither would the porting of MorphOS be within reasonable limits nor would the whole thing be somewhat profitable due to the reasons told above... The acquisition of the hardware alone would cost in the thousands if more than one reference unit is needed. Not counting further imponderables like compulsory OS4 purchase..."
  • »08.04.10 - 20:56
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    kolla
    Posts: 105 from 2003/4/22
    PowerPC based Macs are also rather exotic these days (and it will not improve), so I'm not sure what to read from that statement.
    -- kolla
  • »08.04.10 - 21:47
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    mobydick
    Posts: 179 from 2004/2/26
    From: Mordor, capita...
    Thank you, Andreas. I can understand position of MorphOS Team. Due to lack of another new PPC-based hardware, I can make the only conclusion: this is the end of MorphOS :(
    Pegasos II/G4@1GHz, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9
    Efika MX Smartbook, Ubuntu 12.04
    peguser.narod.ru
  • »08.04.10 - 22:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11630 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > PowerPC based Macs are also rather exotic these days (and it will not improve), so
    > I'm not sure what to read from that statement.

    Regarding PPC Macs he said (in the part I left out):

    "In Q4/05 alone 1.2 million PPC Macs were sold, half desktops and half portables. Allegedly about one third of the desktops were Mac mini PPC... New hardware aside, where's possibly the greater potential?"
  • »08.04.10 - 22:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 496 from 2009/9/8
    Quote:


    mobydick wrote:
    I think... If (if!) A1-X1000 will be released and if (if) it will be equipped with the PA6 - can we expect MorphOS for this board?

    (Yes, i read the pega-1's statement about Ben Hermanns, but... )


    Hi,
    If It has a PA6, It' """about""" a PowerMac G5, and I prefear always a PowerMac G5 with PCIe or AGP...

    First I'd like to see the support for Emac G4, Ibook, Powerbook G4 and in particular PowerMac G4 ...
    Second I'd like to see the support of Dual G4 CPU (some PowerMac G4)...
    Then a day the support for PowerMac G5 Single, Dual and Dual Core (with AGP and PCIe)
    regards

    regards
  • »08.04.10 - 22:11
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  • Moderator
    Golem
    Posts: 766 from 2003/2/28
    From: Denmark
    @mobydick

    Again?
  • »08.04.10 - 22:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11630 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I prefear always a PowerMac G5 with PCIe or AGP

    Just FYI: The X1000 is supposed to have PCIe.
  • »08.04.10 - 22:18
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Mobydick: should I shut down my mac mini and forget about MorphOS? Because i don't understand your statement at all.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »08.04.10 - 22:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 496 from 2009/9/8
    Quote:


    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I prefear always a PowerMac G5 with PCIe or AGP

    Just FYI: The X1000 is supposed to have PCIe.


    sure I know... while PowerMac G5 has AGP or PCIe, but I prefear the PowerMac G5 as hardware
  • »08.04.10 - 22:40
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