My idea of a better world:

Say what you mean, do what you say.

I think it's important so I say it again:

Say what you mean, DO what you say.

Yes, I live my life this way, and I'm constantly rewarded for it. The power of it amazes me, it works on all levels - from family to business. This is the way to make true friends, this is the way to achieve goals, this is the way to happiness.

"if you dont live the life you believe, you'll believe the life you live" or something like that

Honestly, from a public perspective...that you even replied in those terms is just as bad as editing the post, no matter what the percentage of 'truth' contained within it. there are always 2 sides to everything, hence usage of 'truth.'



[ Edited by JKD on 2004/11/15 21:10 ]

There's just gotta be some sanity in the basket somewhere. I guess we're so used to disappointment that we look for and await its arrival. I checked my Peggy and even with this weird day - it still works - so I still where I was - hanging on to a dream. It'll be fine.

I had heart surgery on the 9th of September and am just now getting back to work - so I know all about the topic of running out of money. :) Frustration, anxiety, pain - and still I wake up every morning and have to make it through another day.

David

Quote:
Nonsense. Have you ever used MorphOS for saying that ?

Leo,
Waiting for clarifications before going on developments... Unlike many people I won't wait forever.

@ bbrv & MOS-Team

Don't kill MorphOS! All of you invested lots of skill and money into it. Will you kill it now, when it's becoming very nice, and sucessfull OS? I know that there were lots of misunderstandings and issues, but it's a reason to sth, that you have been working since years? Don't forget about us - users and 3-rd party developers. We want to help to solve the problems, just tell us how.

I understand that buying MorphOS, at fifty euros a pop, for example, wouldn't be more than a temporary patch. But I would be very happy to do so, for the sake of support.

No, I don't have a Pegasos. But I like to help. If my money can, then why not?

Quote:

How generous of you.

Quote:

Why not do it now? I'd really like to see which parts you consider "untruths".

Bonjour,

Quote:

anim0.gif Thanks to make me laugh ;)

Quote:
Quote:

Me too. i'm preparing myself to laugh again :)

Bye

[ Edited by Frodon on 2004/11/16 11:35 ]

Quote:

Like someone else said - MorphOS is on the same track today as it was two days ago. Or half a year ago, actually. This situation was presented yesterday as news, but it's only news to the public. The rest of the MorphOS team seems to have known about this situation for quite some time, and development actions has probably been taken with this in mind. For instance, towards the end of May this year there were a series of shows where the current snapshot of MorphOS was presented, as well as a development roadmap etc. Some of this information was asked by MorphOS developers to be removed from show reports, and when discussed why on IRC, they gave reasons like "we don't want to present to the public features that perhaps even won't be there in the final release". I thought that sounded a little strange at the time, I mean, if you spend a lot of time to implement a feature you usually do it for a reason. But now I think that approach makes sense. The uncertain state of affairs made it impossible to present a final shape of MorphOS 1.5 to the public, since there would be no way of telling if even these basic components like MUI or Ambient would be there in its current form. So this is not a new situation for the other MorphOS developers, only to us, the public.

MUI is very advanced, especially the later versions that has been developed for MorphOS exclusively. Ambient is better than Workbench in a few areas, but many people are using replacements like DOpus or the "real" Amiga workbench on their MorphOS systems, and they do it for a reason. Anyway, both those components are of course important, but they are not the guts of the OS, more part of the visual experience.

The MorphOS developers has a record of using and contributing to the AROS project. Perhaps this will continue on new areas now? I don't know the state at which Zune and Wanderer (AROS MUI-replacement and Workbench replacement) is in, but with a little work they could perhaps offer pretty much the same visual experience to the end user as MorphOS 1.4 does now, and then improve even further so there won't be any need to use Workbench or Dopus as "Ambient-replacements"?

pngicons+wandererprefs.jpegfonts.pngzuneprefs1.png

More AROS screenshots:
http://www.aros.org/pictures/screenshots/

Perhaps components like these are best developed as open source anyway? It's "only" the visual parts, of course very important to the overall user experience, but it's not the guts of the OS, it's not what makes MorphOS so special so there is no real need for it to keep it proprietary? If these parts are open, more developers may also contribute and help both AROS and MorphOS moving forward in these areas, who knows?

The Frieden guys has said that they will develop a completely new version of Workbench for OS4 from scratch, to get rid of old legacies that limits things. I think it would be really cool if all three OS-distros would use the same workbench, at least as a base. I think that would be really nice; a common uniting denominator! It would sure as hell be possible, but of course I don't think it would ever happen!



Anyway. David, Stefan, Treveur and Oliver, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your work. I have followed MorphOS since the 1.0 release with my own eyes, and I have enjoyed your work very much. I am very sorry that the situation has come to this. When the well has dried, there is no water. When there is no money, there is no money. I still hope that you will accept some kind of re-negotiation or settlement, and that you agree to continue your development. If you feel this is impossible, then I am very sorry about this, but I wish you the best of luck with your future endeavours. Your work has been appreciated by many of us, remember that!

I would also like to take the opportunity to thank any MorphOS developers that continue to push forward, for no or very little money at all. This is how things are done with the OS4 development, as far as I understand. Obviously there are not very much financial means in Genesi to reward you now, but may the OS develop to something real good in the future, and may there be some great reward for you when the product reaches a real commercial level.

Also, thank you all application developers that continue to push forward. You all rule, and we are many who are very grateful for your efforts. We love you all!



I don't see a reason for MorphOS to stop here. It has been assured it won't. But if it will, then I will bury the Amiga for good, but it has nevertheless been a good and interesting time, with an extremely interesting technology created (hardware, OS and applications). I am glad I have been here to see it all with my own eyes!

@ Frodon

Wow, where did you get that, erhmm ... "smiley"?

Bertrand and Mark, if all this was not bad enough you decided to pile on to this free-for-all. We are sad to see this.

Bertrand, you came to us for an internship. We gave you one. By law, we were supposed to pay you 20% of the SMIC. During the all time you worked at Thendic-France you were paid 100% of the SMIC. You also had the chance to travel around Europe. You were paid 859 Euro/mo from 10/02 to 11/03, which marked the end of your internship. The last three months were not been paid by us, but you did get paid by the Government (as we did not default on our responsibilities there). You were paid a total of 7730 Euros (+ the social costs we bore of 5500 Euros) for your internship. We do not think this was bad, particularly since you were not full time at the office, as you still had to go to school. Of course, you also got a very good report from the Company for your Graduation. You are welcome.

Mark, you started in 11/02 and stopped 12/03. You were paid 1270 Euro/mo, plus we paid for your apartment at 732 Euro/mo for a total of 21000 Euros. You were left with 3000 Euros unpaid (not included in the previous number), which was paid to you by the Government. With the trouble we were having you were forced to move from the apartment (which had maid service) into a hotel which we paid 3000 Euros for that one month. You also travelled with us to many shows.

We had alot of fun and we did some really great things for MorphOS and the Community in general. It hurt every one when the things that happened did.

Nowee never had a full time contract (CDI). He was conditionally employed for three months and given a two month extension. He also omitted the fact that we sent him money in January 2004. Pegasos Japan was never finished. Pegasos Espana was a good site, but he took it down quickly and Pegasos Portugal was nearly done too but never completed. What the basis for his claim is now is very strange to us. His comments about Pretory are completely ignorant.

As for the root of this whole matter, David and the others have hurt themselves and MorphOS. David has been paid roughly 40000 Euros, Stefan 20000 Euros, and Oliver 3600. When Oliver was not paid he did not work. Stefan worked partially for three months. We have no idea what David did in the interim.

MorphOS 1.4.2 is fully paid for and licensed. This is what gets shipped with the Pegasos. It is not the sales driver, but we still promote it because we believe it has a future. We won't stop doing this.

We are not sure we will ever be able to support MorphOS as we once did, but we did deliver an ODW to Paolo Cattani this week, because we thought a few people might appreciate a Virtual Grand Prix 2 MorphOS port.

Let's see how the situation develops next.

Raquel and Bill

No matter what problems are, developers must be payed. So, i can only full agree their decision to do not release MOS until they get a full reward. And I don't blame developers if they will drop MOS project if they don't have they rightfully money in short time. If I was then, I have denunced and drop all this thing much time before.

If Genesi alredy know to do not pay them, they should warn them and let they find a way to have a work until a development can be again financed.

If all become lost, I can only hope some of MOS team maybe will help AROS team. They have alredy some collaboration in past, AROS maybe will "save" some concept putted in MOS development...

As always, the opinion of takemehomegrandma is carefully thought, expressed, weighted, and well-balanced. He is able to look deeply at the core of the facts and elucidate all the details.

And as always I agree 100% with him (I'm sorry, takemehomegrandma, but I'm mostly silent, so never told you this before).

Now that the real problem is known to everyone, it is time to find a solution once and for all. The direction to follow in the future must be chosen as soon as possible, because further delays could be catastrophic for the future of the platform, IMHO.

I hope all the parts involved will meditate as much as possible before adopting their ultimate decisions.

Somebody, like me, could lose almost 20 years of his life with Amiga-like computers. But this is not terribly important, anyway, because I had much fun in those years.

The thing that all of us could really lose is much, much more: the DREAM, that extraordinary dream which incredibly allowed us to stay here together until now...

Try to work out a compromise with Stefan and David. MUI is imporant, Ambient too. The door is not closed yet. Try to keep it open.
Maybe it would be good to announce an external arbiter who will try to find a settlement between all parties and finally get the ppl back to work (at least Stefan and David).

Bill and Raquel, why do you keep slamming Nowee? I am very sad to see this.

<insert random unrelated blah>

Let's see how the situation develops next.

PS. Where are the untruths in what Nowee wrote?

Hello,

@bbrv
I was just reacting as an outsider reader to what you said..

About the internship, I was glad to work for MorphOS and the Pegasos, and happy to have had this opportunity. I never said the contrary. But again, this is not the topic here and the topic of my previous post.

I only reacted to what you said because I found it quite funny and/or ironic. First because legally speaking the domain name of morphos.net is owned by David Gerber as someone said here. That's why I found your reaction on that funny.
Then because I'm not sure that there are lot of things that are untruth on the page. That's why I said I'm preparing to laugh again :)

You see, nothing related to my internship and so your answer is off topic... So please stay on topic :)

Bye

[ Edited by Frodon on 2004/11/16 14:16 ]

Make a MOS 1.5 commercial to pay all developers. I think 90% of Pegasos users will pay for the new MOS. What about 30 EUR for one copy of MOS?

Try to find a solution, dont waste time arguing...

We need new MOS 1.5 (and newer and newer) because AmigaOS4.0 is very quickly gaining us.

@tapero:

C'mon thierry, there was and is no need for putting more oil into the flame than required. It burns already.

Quote:

Of course it does. You cannot deny that. Just ask most people here on morphzone who bought a pegasos. They bought it because of MorphOS. There was absolutly no other reason.

I don't know how much pegasos are sold now to freescale. But remember a company who just depends one a single customer can quickly completly die. Happened often in past already, when the "big customer company" died/leaved market (whatever) a lot smaller companies which were producing parts for them died too. So having a stable consumer base in this market does not hurt, IMHO.

You also cannot deny that MorphOS has a lot marketing effekt for the Pegasos platform. There are a lot user which did websites and "propaganda" for MorphOS/Pegasos. And they did (and do) it for free. It didn't cost Genesi a cent extra.

Without MorphOS the pegasos is just another linux board, and well there are cheaper possibilities to let run linux. In current market situation the price is often the only argument which counts. So if you're not really special you don't have a chance on the market anyway.

And MorphOS is this special attribute the platform depends on... (I quote now someone from the pegasos linux community) It is the heart of the platform.



Now it's up to all involved parties to find a way to extinguish the flames or to burn in them. But Thierry, please keep the oil in the storage.. there is no need for it now and not in the future. There are always at least 2 sides of the story... and if every side does a few carefully steps in direction to the other parties we can calm down the situation, don't you think?

regards,
tokai

@Jack

At the moment it seems to be impossible to go this way.

@The rest

Sad to see so much Genesi-bashing around. No-one seems to remember we wouldn't even be here were where are now without them.

Don't get me wrong. No need to worship or be silent about the truth, but this "f_uck off!"-attitude of some people as thanks for all the GOOD things is quite pathetic(one bad deed doesnt invalid many good deeds!)

Raise hands, how many find the texts at www.morphos.net mature and professional? Especially the "we made it, genesi f_ucked it up"

Ca ne te lasse pas d'expliquer tout le temps pourquoi tes employés ne sont pas payés???
Les contrats d'apprentissage ou en alternance sont payés car l'entreprise bien organisée et dirigée peut en tirer un bénéfice. On ne paye pas au résultats que je sache, on paye en fin de mois. si le travail ne convient pas on se sépare de son employé et surtout on ne lui donne pas un nouveau boulot sans le payer... Je connais très bien ce style de management à la petite semaine (baton ou carotte???).
Sinon SAS a raison, tes explications à dormir dehors par grand froid nous lassent... J'espère que MOS se passera de Genesi car niveau promotion là on touche le fond avec cette histoire. Des fois mieux vaut être ignoré que détesté alors fais toi discret car vu la réputation que tu te traines...

[ Edited by tetuzo on 2004/11/16 14:18 ]

I fully agree with you tokai. Best post in whole thread :) I also bought PegasosII because of MorphOS, not Linux.

If I wanted to run Linux, I could buy a PC for the half of the price.. but this is not the case for me. I bought PegasosII because of MorphOS.

Genesi will loose everything if they dont come up from the grave and say, "hey.. were having problems, we will solve them and give you the money which you request".

Genesi!!!!!! The developers of the OS is the most important thing which exsists. Without them, like me. There would be no OS.

I thank all of the MorphOS developers for beeing here. I really, really love of all the work you do.. EVEN as my PegasosII is not stable yet ;) It works and I do love MorphOS. And I want to do anything to get MorphOS keep burning in everyones hearts in this small, but unique community.

I want Genesi to stand up and tell the community and stop lying etc. I was promissed a PegasosII board for free by bbrv, but never got it. I bought it instead. I infact bought 2 PegasosII motherboards.

bbrv, you have to stop ignoring people. Stop promising things which you can't. Genesi is sure a good name, but with this wave, your just destroing everyone hearts and in the deepest mind, thats not your will.

I hope that things will be cleared out. I love you all MorphOS users,.. white or black, blue or red. Your fantastic by bringing this platform a good one. Now its Genesi turn to make us proud, not a false company.

MorphOS is the bluebutterfly that I will allways protect no matter what.

Regards,
Michal, www.amitopia.tk


[ Edited by MorphDelf on 2004/11/16 14:29 ]

Quote:

I sure won't raise mine.

As someone said there are two sides of the coin. Maybe they had to change website like this after there was no reaction (I just assume) or reaction wasn't what that side wanted. Sadly I see this action as burning bridges

One thing I see is that MUI can't be lost. Ambient on other hand wasn't given to public like desktop should've been.

Fact is that money had to be payed by contract, best thing would be for parties to talk about it face to face. All this online bickering and using public as tool hurts everybody. Some people need to swallow a bit of their pride and step down from their thrones to speak to each other and resolve this situation as good as possible. Good luck!

Hi.

As for Pegasos Japan, I've been clear enough. I've been warning during
all november and until mid december that the ( MY OWN ) translator needed
funding. At least a board. When he went furious that you ignored his
emails, you gave me emails adresses of people supposed to translate the
rest : they never replied. Of course it's not finished : some translations
were missing. I never found anybody to replace my friend, and your people
was to busy to even reply my emails. I'm not talking Japanese, you know?

As for pegasos-España it's been always online since then, at the adress
I gave you in mid-january, www.nowee.org/pegasos . I didn't have the
money to keep my www.pegasos-es.com registration, (feel free and register
it yourself THIS TIME).

My comments towards pretory are based on several articles and comments
published into french newspapers, and comments from Thendic and ex
Pretory people. I also recall that Pretory people used to rant a lot
towards the money that was missing for them but still invested into the
Pegasos : 'a strange and dangerous' project.

My contracts were finished in november you said ? Then why the release
of the pegasos-jp website was after this timeline? Why the hell did
Bernard Hautbergue, the man that used to give me orders, asked me for
reports then. I have docs from Thendic, emails and so on, until mid jan
Why was I aware of this supposed 2 month contract at it's end ? And why
did Thierry told me there were new contracts ready ? He would have been
very happy to fire me, provided I bugged him a lot about the payments.

Finally, I wouldn't have had to take legal measures (that's not even
aimed at YOU but the liquidator, since he owns the reponsability of
Thendic-France, provided it was closed) if you had sent me the october and
november contracts in time. When I received this backdated papers, it
was too late to get back. And I was frank enough to tell Thierry I
would take measures if papers failed to come. I cheated no one. I think
somebody failed to inform you, on the other hand.

I'm not even hitting you. I'm alone, or almost, and I've been silent since
ages, not to ruin your efforts and my efforts into the very same thing :
earning cash with something we both trust in.

Your reaction for ages, towards me on public places enforced me into
this reply. If not for my honor, just for some truth to be known. Not
always your truth. With the team being silent for many reasons. I was
silent for I thought I really could put some handkerchief onto all that
for my MorphOS friends. I also left MorphOS for a similar reason, not
being a trouble.

I'd like to take a drink with you one day, and to talk about all that in
a more human way. Maybe there was misunderstandings, at a general level.
But please stop that bashing.

Nowee

[ Edited by Nowee on 2004/11/16 16:14 ]