Suggestions for next version of MorphOS
  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1883 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    MoerBoer wrote:
    Quote:

    Flash wrote:
    Anyway as simple thing to do I'd like to have in a next version Ambient drag and drop files issue fixed.
    When I manage files in text lists instead of icons, multiple files/drawers are selected instead just one i want.
    When I use to manage files via icons on Ambient all seems to be right.
    It's a very very old bug.


    Hah! For me never having an Amiga, I thought the behaviour you described in the list view with drag and drop is normal!

    It's also a small thing that irritates me, I have to very careful to just select the one file and drag it perfectly horizontally otherwise it just selects more files and off they all go :-)


    It's not a bug, but design. Ambient is more DOpus clone than Amiga's Workbench clone, and this behaviour has copied from Directory Opus where you can select many files without using any keyboard qualifier or so.

    I'm not sure if you can even select a range of files in the name mode in Workbench at all? Maybe only if you resize a window wide enough and use lasso from far right all the way to the left over the filenames ... but in any case it's almost impossible in WB, and compared to that, the current Ambient behaviour is very good :)

    I generally prefer the current way to select files in DOpus style, but of course it can be a bit difficult to drag just one item, but for other operations it's good. It's still faster to select a range of files just by mouse than if you'd select a file and then press a key when selecting the last file etc...
  • »06.06.22 - 11:45
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    MoerBoer
    Posts: 161 from 2019/10/15
    I wonder how difficult it would be to make it an option to either method?

    It's just strong muscle memory from other OS' which causes issues for me. It's really not a biggy.

    [ Edited by MoerBoer 06.06.2022 - 14:47 ]
  • »06.06.22 - 12:47
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 91 from 2019/11/1
    Other simple things in "to do list" could be a better understanding of some MOS features/prefs.
    I find too much difficult to set window's borders go out the screen, or set a click to front or hide all opened windows in one pass.
    I read a recent topic on this forum about these non friendly procedures.
    Maybe a nice solution could be to add some icon scripts to set all these features (and others) in fast/simple way or add a some specific button in windows prefs.
    I remember first time I used MOS was going crazy to let windows go outside screen's borders.
    Personally I'd like to set this option as default because workbench/ambient space is tiny at 720p resolution and I have to use too much windows depth gadgets to switch among all them.
    IMHO much simpler move windows over screen limits and make space for others.
  • »06.06.22 - 13:08
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1883 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    MoerBoer wrote:
    It's just strong muscle memory from other OS' which causes issues for me.

    On Amiga the shift+lmb combination has always added the clicked file (the one file only) to the selection (or removing a file/item from the selection when clicking an already selected item), but not selecting the whole range from the previous file as it's done on current mainstream systems. This behaviour has been there from old Workbench to MUI listviews and other programs, so making Ambient to act differently would break this consistency with everything else on Amiga/MorphOS.
  • »06.06.22 - 13:56
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1883 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Flash wrote:
    Other simple things in "to do list" could be a better understanding of some MOS features/prefs.
    I find too much difficult to set window's borders go out the screen, or set a click to front or hide all opened windows in one pass.

    Maybe just pointing more to the MorphOS Library? :)


    Quote:

    I read a recent topic on this forum about these non friendly procedures.

    I don't think it's that non-friendly... don't users just check the system settings on every new OS they install? They're not hidden any more than settings on any other OS.


    Quote:

    Maybe a nice solution could be to add some icon scripts to set all these features (and others) in fast/simple way or add a some specific button in windows prefs.

    Set all features how? Each user has their own preferences/favourites how to set a system.. If we'd have hundred scripts to choose, would that be any easier?


    Quote:

    Personally I'd like to set this option as default because workbench/ambient space is tiny at 720p resolution and I have to use too much windows depth gadgets to switch among all them.
    IMHO much simpler move windows over screen limits and make space for others.

    I was using this feature first, because it was possible (on Amiga it wasn't), but then I went back to the option that windows don't go off screen automatically. I myself find it more comfortable to keep whole windows visible all the time and the rarer occasions when I want them to go off screen, I just can press the ctrl key. Using certain fullscreen programs on their own screen helps to keep windows tidy and there isn't much need to place any windows outside the screens. But that said, I can admit that maybe it would be more comfortable for "mainstream people" to let windows to go out of screen by default... Amiga users can dig out the prefs when they want to disable it :)
  • »06.06.22 - 14:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11573 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Maybe a little advantage can be, if 64-bit code runs faster than
    > 32-code on 64-bit CPUs, but I am not sure if it is true.

    64-bit code runs slower on a 64/32-bit Power(PC) CPU in 64-bit mode than 32-bit code runs on the same CPU in 32-bit mode. In fact, this is true for any ISA where 32-bit and 64-bit instructions only differ in width (i.e not for x86(-64) or ARM).

    > G5s […] can execute 32-bit instructions and have support for 32-bit OS.

    Indeed, that's why MorphOS can run on G5. The same is obviously true for the X5000's e5500 core, which is why MorphOS and OS4 can run on it. The only 64-bit-only Power(PC) I'm aware of is the A2.

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 06.06.2022 - 17:57 ]
  • »06.06.22 - 15:20
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 381 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Indeed, that's why MorphOS can run on G5. The same is obviously true for the X5000's e5500 core, which is why MorphOS and OS4 can run on it. The only 64-bit-only Power(PC) I'm aware of is the A2.


    I gotta admit that I hadn't heard of that one, nor its open sourcing. In any case, that it supposedly was 64 bit only was a bit surprising to me, especially after checking the introduction on the Wikipedia page, which claims that it implements PowerISA v2.06, which to the best of my knowledge doesn't allow 64-bit processors to not implement a 32 bit mode.

    After checking out the linked A2 documentation, it does imply that the 32 bit mode is also available on those CPUs.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »06.06.22 - 15:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11573 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The "NG" kernel I wrote, which is what is/was used to run MorphOS on AMD64,
    > does already support SMP on the X5000. Just to avoid confusion: This is purely
    > on the kernel side of things so far, MorphOS programs can't access the other cores.

    SMP is a feature already listed for the current MorphOS kernel (Quark), which (obviously) also runs on the X5000 (plus on PowerMac G4/G5).

    "MorphOS kernel is named Quark and offers the functionality for services like MP, SMP and VM."
    http://web.archive.org/web/20000914185858/http://www.morphos.de/files/morphos_overview11-Apr-00a.txt

    Has this SMP of Quark ever been tried or even put to use (outside ABox, of course)? If so, on which hardware?
  • »06.06.22 - 15:46
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 381 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    "MorphOS kernel is named Quark and offers the functionality for services like MP, SMP and VM."
    https://web.archive.org/web/20000914185858/http://www.morphos.de/files/morphos_overview11-Apr-00a.txt

    Has this SMP of Quark ever been tried or even put to use (outside ABox, of course)? If so, on which hardware?


    The year 2000 predates my involvement with MorphOS, I believe, so that's from before my time and I can't give you an authoritative answer. But I doubt that in 2000, MorphOS had been run on any SMP hardware at all.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »06.06.22 - 16:29
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2064 from 2003/2/24
    Maybe not in 2000, but a dual-ZIF-socket of the Pegasos preproduction board did exist.

    Note this would be the one predating even the 1st mATX board with a ZIF carrier in the the Slot1/A that was shown in 2001.

    Wether laire or anybody had access to that board or did any MorphOS testing on it is another question.
  • »06.06.22 - 16:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11573 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> A2

    > I hadn't heard of that one

    Product-wise, it's only ever been used in the BQC (Blue Gene/Q Compute) chip. As has been revealed when the core was open sourced, the PowerEN chip mentioned in the Wikipedia article was never released.

    > PowerISA v2.06 […] to the best of my knowledge doesn't allow 64-bit processors
    > to not implement a 32 bit mode. After checking out the linked A2 documentation,
    > it does imply that the 32 bit mode is also available on those CPUs.

    I don't remember where exactly I got this (mis)information from, but know I read it somewhere in 2010 when the A2 was announced and unfortunately didn't bother to check even after a link to the user manual was added to the Wikipedia article in 2013. Shame on me. Thanks for taking the time to verify and correct my misconception :-)
  • »06.06.22 - 16:55
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 266 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    I am sorry this is a little offtopic here, but we spoke about Ambient features.

    What is the best way to clone Ambient settings to another computer? ( including windows offscreen, panels, etc.. ) I have several MorphOS machines and I am too lazy to setup again and again everytning. ;-)

    When I copy content of Prefs/Ambient to other computer, there not exact setting from remote computer, but some merge of two settings (two panels for example).

    Is it OK to delete local Prefs/Ambient and copy there the remote? Is it enough?

    Thanks
    AmigaOS: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »06.06.22 - 21:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11573 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > dual-ZIF-socket of the Pegasos preproduction board

    Ah yes, that Teron-esque beauty ;-)
  • »06.06.22 - 21:56
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1883 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    What is the best way to clone Ambient settings to another computer? ( including windows offscreen, panels, etc.. ) I have several MorphOS machines and I am too lazy to setup again and again everytning. ;-)

    When I copy content of Prefs/Ambient to other computer, there not exact setting from remote computer, but some merge of two settings (two panels for example).

    Is it OK to delete local Prefs/Ambient and copy there the remote? Is it enough?


    I think it should work fine to replace (not copy over) the whole Prefs/Ambient dir if you have the same directory structure and partition names on both machines. Try to rename old dir out of use without deleting it (easy to revert if needed), and see if new one works fine.

    Ambient.prefs contains the most important usability settings, and also if you've made any changes to Advanced.conf file.

    All panel definitions are in the Panels dir, one file per panel. So if they were with different names, you might get duplicates, but it's easy to check.

    The Filetypes directory contains all Ambient MIME type settings. So it affects what happens when you double click a file or use RMB for the context menu. These are most fragile for file paths being exactly the same on both computers.
  • »07.06.22 - 06:04
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1329 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    It's not a bug, but design.

    It's bad design, though. The fact that Ambient merely copied bad behavior from an older piece of software does not really matter.

    Quote:

    Ambient is more DOpus clone than Amiga's Workbench clone, and this behaviour has copied from Directory Opus where you can select many files without using any keyboard qualifier or so.

    You can select multiple files without the need to press keys in any mainstream operating system.

    However, all of them handle this in a much more elegant and relatively consistent way compared to Ambient.

    When moving from Windows to MacOS to, say, Ubuntu, there is no need to relearn how to select multiple files whatsoever.

    On the other hand, MorphZone is filled with posts from people who got confused by the weird and clunky way this is handled in Ambient.

    Quote:

    the current Ambient behaviour is very good :)

    If you like it, that is fine by me but it is clearly not intuitive or people would not keep bringing it up.

    Quote:

    It's still faster to select a range of files just by mouse than if you'd select a file and then press a key when selecting the last file etc...


    Every other OS just uses the "lasso" tool for this and does not expect you to figure out that dragging file names towards the left triggers different actions compared to dragging file names towards the right, etc.
  • »07.06.22 - 07:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 266 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    @jPV

    Thanks!
    AmigaOS: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »07.06.22 - 07:16
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1329 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Flash wrote:
    Other simple things in "to do list" could be a better understanding of some MOS features/prefs.
    I find too much difficult to set window's borders go out the screen, or set a click to front or hide all opened windows in one pass.
    I read a recent topic on this forum about these non friendly procedures.
    Maybe a nice solution could be to add some icon scripts to set all these features (and others) in fast/simple way or add a some specific button in windows prefs.

    At the very least, the standard installer should offer to use either a profile with common sense defaults aimed at new users or a different profile for old timers.

    Quote:

    I remember first time I used MOS was going crazy to let windows go outside screen's borders. (...) IMHO much simpler move windows over screen limits and make space for others.

    I still get annoyed by this after all these years.

    The problem got slightly mitigated by the recent introduction of the Exposé-like app/window switching feature but it still does not solve the giant problem that some of Ambient's UI elements can only be clicked if there are no windows in front them, which can be a major pain point for new users when you prohibit them from moving windows out of the way as they would in any other major operating system.
  • »07.06.22 - 07:33
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 982 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Please add following directly to VPDF-printing window/prefs:

    1. Printing: Button for single/doublesited printing
    2. If doubleside: Edge to flip (short/long) and very important: a small preview!!
    3. Button to print actual page

    It's very cercuitios to switch allways to printer-prefs.

    4. Shortcut button for printing.
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »13.06.22 - 11:55
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Travis_H
    Posts: 136 from 2009/12/17
    From: Salem, Oregon,...
    Quote:

    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    An uptodate Tag Editor for MP3, FLAC, OGG and so on files, like MP3Tag for Windows. RNOTags is quite nice, but a bit sluggish in handling and it only supports MP3.

    I wrote RNOTags reliability and features in mind, rather than speed at that point, so I guess there could be something to optimize. Where does it feel most sluggish for you (reading, using, writing)? I have already written the read support for FLAC and OGG metadata for other programs... but don't know yet if I'd try to implement the write support in RNOTags... OGG is quite PITA, but maybe for FLAC some day...



    +1 for FLAC tag editing. I exclusively use Flacapella for ripping CDs, so it would be nice to do the tag editing in MorphOS as well.
  • »13.06.22 - 15:08
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 404 from 2004/2/10
    For me this would be valuable:
    1 - Multiple monitor support with the ability to move the mouse between monitors (similar to the p96 utility would be fine, the ability to move stuff by dragging between screens would be a bonus but I have heard that is not really doable).
    2 - Better support for badly written 68k programs that work in 68k or older versions of MOS. I have tried on multiple occasions to find the authors to see if I can get source, no luck. These all work on classic amiga and would be great to use MOS for everything:
    a. Checkitout used to work fine prior to MOS 3.16, now it doesn't close because it has some bad code iin it :).
    b. AmiBack - worked on older versions of MOS with the occasional crash at the end of backup, now it fails all the time.
    On classic Amiga's it occasionally (1 in 10 maybe) will crash but normally it works fine. Restores always work.
    c. Twist2 - Works but the buttons are not readable in the forms.
    d. Ontheball 1.5 PIM - the button for add and update etc. are all trashed.

    I would really like to make MOS my full business system, but I mainly use my 3000's for now...
  • »14.06.22 - 21:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11573 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Multiple monitor support with the ability to move the mouse between monitors

    Hasn't this been introduced with MorphOS 3.16?
  • »15.06.22 - 00:07
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1205 from 2003/6/17
    Have they thought of taking a break and instead of releasing a new version, porting some other app to MorphOS instead?
  • »15.06.22 - 03:57
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 620 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Mouse movement between monitors should work (it worked last time i had working dual monitor setup).
    Windows dragging between screens won't work as there are different screen not the one screen divided on two monitors but all MUI applications have ability to jump to some screen so it can be use as workaround.

    [ Edited by zukow 15.06.2022 - 09:52 ]
  • »15.06.22 - 08:52
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    eliot
    Posts: 560 from 2004/4/15
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Windows dragging between screens won't work as there are different screen not the one screen divided on two monitors but all MUI applications have ability to jump to some screen so it can be use as workaround.


    Might it be possible to integrate a multi monitor support with just one screen?
    So opening one wide screen on both displays.
    I that case windows can be moved from one display to the other one.
    regards
    eliot
  • »15.06.22 - 13:37
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 404 from 2004/2/10
    @Andreas_Wolf
    Thanks for reminding me, forgot about it being added.


    So all I have on my bucket list is better compatibility with the 68k stuff I use every day.

    In hindsight all programs I really need to run on MOS are:
    1. OnTheBall
    2. CheckItOut
    3. Amiback

    If those ran, I could finally move off my Amiga 3000 and use MOS for my needs.

    [ Edited by matt3 15.06.2022 - 09:41 ]
  • »15.06.22 - 14:37
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